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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 10:33:51 AM

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Exiled, I'll speculate that you have a high Intuitive I.Q., which is not measurable. Only linear-sequential "rational" thought processes involving logic can be quantified. Emotional (perception & the empathy of going beyond ego boundaries) intelligence and intuitive (creative insight) intelligence cannot.

Highly creative individuals access all parts of the brain and don't stay inside the box of detached logic. I personally feel pure logic is an inferior intelligence to the higher faculties of the mind, so that's why I don't put much stock in traditional I.Q. test measurements.

ETA: That's why Einstein's genius (and da Vinci, Isaac Newton, et.al.) went beyond logic and into the abstract thought processes of intuition.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 11/6/2014 10:46:32 AM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 10:42:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Did this for real just turn into a fat thread?

Jeez, I was just typing that!

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 10:45:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Also remember that this topic will never be agreed upon and looked at equally, simply because men and women are unable to walk a mile or 10 hours in each other's shoes.

Why? Why can't they do that - or won't do that?

They can and should empathize with each other, but they usually don't.

Why? Wiring? Apathy?

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 11:00:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Exiled, I'll speculate that you have a high Intuitive I.Q., which is not measurable. Only linear-sequential "rational" processes involving logic can be quantified. Emotional (perception & the empathy of going beyond ego boundaries) intelligence and intuitive (creative insight) intelligence cannot.

Highly creative individuals access all parts of the brain and don't stay inside the box of detached logic. I personally feel pure logic is an inferior intelligence to the higher faculties of the mind, so that's why I don't put much stock in traditional I.Q. test measurements.

Simpatico. I stumble across idiots with advanced degrees far too often.

As evolved as we like to think we are, when we attempt to separate or suppress our primal instincts, things go awry. It never needs to be a delicate balance, really, just a functional balance within acceptable boundaries. I strongly embrace my primal side... animal side, if you will, and that allows me to understand myself, my wants and needs sans confusion.

This thread is about people way out of balance and unable to reconcile the animal and the person. "Homo sapiens sapiens" is a bit of a misnomer, which is evident as we have this illusion of evolution that compels us to suppress our intuitive side, the animal side. The imbalance, again, is evident in this thread. The nature of the thread shows how far "animal" the men are in the video, and then we have all these posters on here saying just how awful it is and they do not want any kind of attention at all... too far logical.

We are in a very weird time... which is why most of us are on this site... PC is out of control. Yes, we all want to be attractive, acknowledged, and reap the rewards of adoration, but the pendulum swings so drastically it is very hard to find sure footing. In another thread I pointed that I get varied reactions when I compliment women (I'm equally guilty of complementing men), rarely, but it does happen, I get a negative reaction, for whatever reason, but it does happen. I'm not a cat caller, I call it like I see it. Some women get the intended ego boost from it, some react poorly, and some women get the hell beat out of their BF over it. That is all "out of balance".

Balance would be able to identify and acknowledge what is attractive to you and have that accepted and evolve naturally. The natural evolution would be "thanks" and he/she moves on, or if the reaction is mutual we allow the natural "animal" shit to happen. I don't mean fucking in the street, but any one that understands attraction and signals of attraction understands what I am talking about. We are animals first, we are designed to respond to what is most "physically" compatible to us first. Then comes the pheromones and the rest of the shit works itself out. What I find attractive may not be what someone else would, but I'm wired the way I'm wired. Physical attractiveness is at the bottom of my attraction needs, but still present.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 11:02:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Also remember that this topic will never be agreed upon and looked at equally, simply because men and women are unable to walk a mile or 10 hours in each other's shoes.

Why? Why can't they do that - or won't do that?

They can and should empathize with each other, but they usually don't.

Why? Wiring? Apathy?

I suspect a chicken-before-egg situation here, SR. Per an earlier comment of mine: I don't think it difficult, for instance, to imagine what it must be like to walk around at night amongst people, half of whom are a third bigger and stronger, as well as more aggressive, than oneself. But, I confess that, simple as that idea is, it still didn't impact on me till some time in my twenties. You learn a bit about the experience of the opposite sex that way and become a bit less sexist as a result. But, maybe if you weren't so much of a sexist in the first place, it would be bleeding obvious at a much younger age.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 11:04:33 AM

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You make far too much sense. Jeez.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 12:38:50 PM

Gauge

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This is a fast reply.

I have not read the entire thread, just a few pages. I watched the video and had very mixed feelings about it. The creepy things were when the men followed her or walked by her side, that is scary. The only other thing that the video proved to me is that morons exist. Think about all the men she passed that didn't say anything to her, what about them?

I have no doubt that catcalls and comments can be annoying and tiresome, if not downright rude or scary, but this organization wants to stop morons from being morons? No amount of money is going to be able to do that. I get the point of the video and those of you who have had shitty experiences and I don't blame you for your reactions to them, however, what do you propose to do about stopping it from happening? I cannot think of one thing that I could even propose to do about it except to start shooting those people in the head and make headlines about it, but morons are still going to have to get their stupid on no matter what you do.

I don't know, I have always been respectful of women, it was how I was raised. That I am into BDSM took some mental adjustment for me to get used to the idea that hitting a woman (without the intent to harm) is enjoyable. Men are visual creatures, and as such we look at what attracts us. I have never done the whole catcall thing because I view it as arrogant and pointless, and I certainly have not followed someone just because they were attractive.

I don't really like the implication that all men are bad which is kind of the point of the video. As I said, how many men did she pass that said nothing? The meaning of the video was not lost on me, and certainly reading some of the posts, some of you have had ugly confrontations, if not criminal acts happen because a few men were too full of themselves... I find that appalling. In an ideal world, I would suppose this wouldn't happen, but this is not an ideal world.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 1:00:48 PM

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Many of your points have been addressed Gauge.

No one really has a solution- except changing the culture by bringing it to light.

No one is saying- and this has been said by me alone about 5 times in this thread- that ALL MEN ARE BAD.

A few of us are surprised by that reaction from men.
And honestly I'm so tired of the #NotAllMen that has been swarming the internet since that kid in CA decided to shoot pretty girls for not sleeping with him.

ETA- even I think at this point we are pretty much beating a dead horse.
But RS sorta revived it with his, unfortunate post, a few pages back.

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 11/6/2014 1:01:44 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 1:22:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

This is a fast reply.

I have not read the entire thread, just a few pages. I watched the video and had very mixed feelings about it. The creepy things were when the men followed her or walked by her side, that is scary. The only other thing that the video proved to me is that morons exist. Think about all the men she passed that didn't say anything to her, what about them?

I have no doubt that catcalls and comments can be annoying and tiresome, if not downright rude or scary, but this organization wants to stop morons from being morons? No amount of money is going to be able to do that. I get the point of the video and those of you who have had shitty experiences and I don't blame you for your reactions to them, however, what do you propose to do about stopping it from happening? I cannot think of one thing that I could even propose to do about it except to start shooting those people in the head and make headlines about it, but morons are still going to have to get their stupid on no matter what you do.

I don't know, I have always been respectful of women, it was how I was raised. That I am into BDSM took some mental adjustment for me to get used to the idea that hitting a woman (without the intent to harm) is enjoyable. Men are visual creatures, and as such we look at what attracts us. I have never done the whole catcall thing because I view it as arrogant and pointless, and I certainly have not followed someone just because they were attractive.

I don't really like the implication that all men are bad which is kind of the point of the video. As I said, how many men did she pass that said nothing? The meaning of the video was not lost on me, and certainly reading some of the posts, some of you have had ugly confrontations, if not criminal acts happen because a few men were too full of themselves... I find that appalling. In an ideal world, I would suppose this wouldn't happen, but this is not an ideal world.

As has been said, it was not intended to be pointed at all men but a lot of mens responses (not all men!) has been a bit irritating, to say the least.

http://jezebel.com/your-guide-to-not-all-men-the-best-meme-on-the-interne-1573535818

It's been a widespread reaction to say it but its not a helpful one and in the case of this video it was quite clear (to me at least) that not all men were guilty of it. There were "only" 100 instances in ten hours and I think that makes it about 1% of men, if that, that act this way.

I don't mean to sound snotty saying that, the rest of what you had to say was cool (maybe not the shooting bit lol).

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 3:01:07 PM

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sexyred I hope you are doing well.

As to this thread, it certainly did drift since I read yesterday. Purt near drifted off the fucking planet!

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 3:06:11 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Many of your points have been addressed Gauge.

I figured as much.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 3:47:10 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

As has been said, it was not intended to be pointed at all men but a lot of mens responses (not all men!) has been a bit irritating, to say the least.

Bah... this is the problem when you start point fingers at people. The people responsible for the video took a pot shot at men no matter how right they were to do so. Regardless of the percentage of men that do this sort of thing, which, by your own admission is probably excruciatingly low, did you think that the ones that don't act like that wouldn't get a bit defensive?

What would happen if I did a video similar to this and filmed only women who were being bitchy? Think the ones that aren't bitchy wouldn't get defensive, especially if I founded an organization to raise awareness about bitchy women? Of course they would.

It is human nature to distance ourselves from a generalization when it doesn't apply to us. We want to make people aware that we do not think like that and so we stand up and ask to not be counted among the shitheads.

A good example of this is the fact that I am a Philadelphia Eagles football fan. Ask anyone that is fairly devoted to football who the media likes to portray as bad fans and they will, more than likely, mention Eagles fans in the top 5. The more informed ones will tell the story of the Eagles fans booing Santa Claus, or cheering when Michael Irvin got hurt in our stadium. Both things happened, I am not denying that, but in each case, it was not all the fans, but a few chuckleheads who got rowdy and loud and acted like assholes. Point being, it is too damn easy to make the leap that all Eagles fans are bad, and if you think people don't do that, just listen to sports reporters doing stories on the Eagles... it doesn't happen all the time but eventually they bring up the Santa Claus thing and then go on about the fans and how bad they are.

I understand that this wasn't about all men, although the video kind of implied it without saying it. It painted the woman as innocent, which she was, and it painted the men as knuckle-dragging Neanderthals... sorry if you don't agree, but that is the statement it makes.

quote:

I don't mean to sound snotty saying that,

You didn't sound that way, and even if you did, you are entitled to how you feel. I am not being defensive about this, not really, I am just pointing out why men are coming out and stating that it isn't all men. I know that it does little to propel the conversation along, because the obvious counter to it is that it is not about all men, but you also have to understand why it is being said at all.

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"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 4:16:37 PM

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quote:

It is human nature to distance ourselves from a generalization when it doesn't apply to us. We want to make people aware that we do not think like that and so we stand up and ask to not be counted among the shitheads.

quote:

I understand that this wasn't about all men, although the video kind of implied it without saying it.

I'm quite surprised at your feelings about this, Gauge. I didn't get any sense at all that this was about all men, or even men in general. I've not felt attacked in this thread nor had any impulse to be defensive, either. In fact I thought the video was about women and what women experience and feel.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/6/2014 4:17:33 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 4:19:30 PM

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quote:

I don't really like the implication that all men are bad which is kind of the point of the video.

There is absolutely zero implication that all men are bad.
Personally, I disagree with you that there is no solution to the problem. This video is to bring awareness how uncomfortable this makes a woman feel, in hope to bring attention to men who does it, how uncomplimentary it is, even if they think a female should be flattered by all that attention.

But I feel that the result of this video, based on Youtube reaction, shows that, although many men who does not practice this bad behaviour, is wondering what's the big deal of that behaviour.

It really shows that there are many men out there who really do not get what the issue is. Despite seeing the video.

As to solution to this problem, they can either educate from ground up in schools that such behaviour is not acceptable. Or they can go hardcore and start prosecuting and make it a crime. Either of both solutions will have a good effect. I'd implement both solutions to stop this problem but ya know, for things to change, it starts with bringing awareness to a problem and then trying to convince people who don't think this is a problem, that IT IS a problem. Eventually, if somebody on top takes up the cause, something major could be implemented.

At the moment, majority of men still do not see this as any problem at all, women should just suck it up and take it. That's my impression, majority of nice western men anyway.

On top of that, men in NYC harrass men too, something is wrong with their upbringing!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/6/2014 4:31:07 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 4:27:46 PM

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You are viewing the problem from the wrong end. If you agree even a little with me you'll agree that the main problem, in fact the thing that causes the largest part of the discomfort is the underlying fear of what might happen. So what might happen is the problem. The rapes, the violent muggings, the sexual assults and from the broader perspective the general inhuamnity of man to man.

Your suggestions are more akin to showing the homeless away from the park than solving the problem of people not having a home.
But then again, since it does cause discomfort and fear and thus if repeated costitutes harassment something should be donoe about it too...

< Message edited by YouName -- 11/6/2014 4:30:21 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 4:55:54 PM

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It's not akin to taking homeless people away from the park.
It's simply saying that, they aren't allowed to yell loudly at people walking by, as it's causing public disturbance. They can easily make it against the law if they wanted to.
Anyway, I am speaking from a point of view where I don't have this problem here because, we got laws where I can easily report the guy to the police and get him in trouble for behaving like those New Yorkers did. It's really a good prevention. When men knows they can get in trouble doing that, they stop, as simple as that. I think US does not have this "Outrage of modesty" clause, that does not need any physical contact to get the guy in trouble, he just need to verbally make the woman uncomfortable and his in trouble. Of course our molestation laws are very strict too, just a tap on the shoulder is molest already. I think it works, we don't get harass and feel very safe.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/6/2014 4:58:23 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 5:07:37 PM

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Also, need to study why New Zealand can achieve zero harassment when a woman is walking down the street and NYC cannot.

The men clearly noticed the woman, they looked, but didn't say anything, they know how to keep quiet over there.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/6/2014 5:09:25 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 5:15:44 PM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I'm quite surprised at your feelings about this, Gauge. I didn't get any sense at all that this was about all men, or even men in general. I've not felt attacked in this thread nor had any impulse to be defensive, either. In fact I thought the video was about women and what women experience and feel.

See, this is the funny thing, I don't feel attacked or defensive either. As I stated, the meaning of the video was not lost on me, but the subtle message behind it bothered me. Perhaps it was a knee jerk reaction on my part, and I may not have worded everything as carefully as I should have.

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 5:25:43 PM

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Here Greta, read this before you start championing legislation in America.

http://www.cotwa.info/2013/02/woman-jailed-after-11-false-rape-claims.html

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(in reply to Greta75)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/6/2014 5:31:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Also, need to study why New Zealand can achieve zero harassment when a woman is walking down the street and NYC cannot.

The men clearly noticed the woman, they looked, but didn't say anything, they know how to keep quiet over there.

Once, in some novel I read so long ago I have no idea what it was or who wrote it, I read the lines,

"... The old men stared at her as she walked by, in full knowledge that she knew that they were staring. They stared in the way that only old French men could stare - in a way in which no one would ever find offensive. She smiled in return."

I don't know how much this pertains to the subject at hand. But I wish I could stare like that (though before I get old).

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