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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:23:11 PM   
shiftyw


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If it is such a non issue to you, why do you feel it is pathetic? Its just a difference of opinion.

VERY FEW women in this thread are calling all men rapists.

Why do you feel only women are pathetic? If it applies to us, it applies to them. Several guys in here found this behavior harassing and annoying. Why are you not calling them out too?

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:31:34 PM   
Greta75


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Not one woman in this thread have called all men rapist.
But you have blamed specifically women for this problem of men harassing them.
You're saying that if they bear guns and learn some self-defense, that, it's impossible for them to get harass anymore. Which is totally false and untrue, that is not the solution. When you fight violence with violence, you just need someone who is bigger, badder and stronger and better in kung fu than you, to take you down. It's not the solution. You're not invincible.

But it's exactly why I say I don't need a gun here where I live, but I will need one in the US for self-defense. If random men on the streets are doing that all the time, I'm gonna want to keep a gun. And that's screwed up, to live like that, to constantly live in fear that I gotta hold a gun with me to feel powerful and strong.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/3/2014 5:35:49 PM >

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:34:54 PM   
smileforme50


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From: DelaWHERE(?)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I just think the fact you carry a gun or know karate to protect yourself against men...says a lot about what men have done to you.
Do you really more well adjusted than the many women in this thread?

Also, a great deal of us said that "You're pretty" isn't that threatening- its pretty obnoxious, rude and intrusive though. But many did say they have felt threatened by more extreme behavior before.
Stop making excuses for these guys. Or don't.
We all get that you have nerves of steel and all the bad shit that happened to you has made you extra badass...we can all hope to be as strong and awesome as you someday.

ETA: More Extreme- for clarity.


Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.


It isn't confusing.
Its disheartening.
And I honestly do feel very sorry for you. We obviously clash on a lot of things, as we've now gotten two threads pulled on a similar topic.

I don't wish to bicker with you over this. But...I think its sad you feel people don't deserve better than this.
Maybe its that you feel this is a lost cause and better to join 'em if you can't beat 'em? I don't know.
Why is this behavior passable and acceptable to you? What you permit, you promote.
I don't want to live in a world where a 14 year old girl needs to know karate to keep an adult man from creeping on her.

What IS confusing to me is why you find women complaining about this more pathetic than the guys (and sure, girls) out there getting their ego boost off of this?

And I disagree with Greta- men shouldn't have to protect us. PEOPLE just shouldn't harass people. And yes, I know it will never stop. But I still feel calling it to attention is important because perhaps one of these people will realize its poor form and back off.



Exactly

_____________________________

“Give it to me!” she yelled
“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

(in reply to shiftyw)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:41:26 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

And I disagree with Greta- men shouldn't have to protect us.

I am a proponent of traditional gender roles. I think the whole problem with women having issues with this, is they still think being "protected" as the weaker sex, means they cannot vote, or have equal rights to education etc etc. But I say this with the simple logic of how I would groom a son or a little brother, and he will have access to everything to go as far as he wanna go, and grow as far as he want to grow and be anything he wants to be. There's no oppression involve in protectiveness.

That's why I believe in the D/S lifestyle. How can anybody who is submissive not believe in it? If we do not, then why do we want to submit to a male for? Why bother giving a man that much power over us in the first place?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/3/2014 5:42:22 PM >

(in reply to smileforme50)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:46:35 PM   
littleladybug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

That's why I believe in the D/S lifestyle. How can anybody who is submissive not believe in it? If we do not, then why do we want to submit to a male for? Why bother giving a man that much power over us in the first place?


Ah...now we're getting into a different topic....

I, for one, don't "believe" that a man needs to protect me. I'm fully capable of doing that myself. I submit to a male for myriad other reasons. Yes, I do like the "protective vibe"...but I would never, ever rely on a man for my sole protection. That's how *this* submissive* feels.

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:50:01 PM   
shiftyw


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Well... I think the exsistence of Dommes in this forum go against traditional gender roles. I submit in the bedroom only. I'm pretty far from service oriented. I also submit to women too, cause I'm a bisexual. I also top women too. I don't top men. And find that little bit of myself a little hypocritical and confusing, but it just doesn't rev my engine.

I'm super not into traditional gender roles.

I've been the main breadwinner all my relationships, and I'm a cold bitch who puts her career first. And I'm in the restaurant industry here- which if you aren't a waitress or bartender- is still very much a boys club (at least in this part of the country).

I am a person who is completely happy without a relationship. Sure, its better with it. But I've always been someone who can still feel whole without another person.
Clearly I don't subscribe to D/s...and I'm here way more for the kinky sex.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:05:35 PM   
SweetnStormySub


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FR ~

I can shoot the balls off a mosquito at 30 yards.
I can defensively protect myself because I have taken defense classes.
Neither helped me.
I was raped in March, 2002. He used a rookie in my cocktail.
Does this make me weak, pathetic, and/or whiny as a certain poster has posited?

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:10:26 PM   
SweetnStormySub


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From: Buckeye State
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Sorry...roofie, not rookie!

(in reply to SweetnStormySub)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:17:49 PM   
Marc2b


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Hey guys . . .

It comes down to this: Respect. If you respect women you will not unnecessarily impose yourself upon them in order to stroke your own ego.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to SweetForDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:21:46 PM   
shiftyw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetnStormySub

FR ~

I can shoot the balls off a mosquito at 30 yards.
I can defensively protect myself because I have taken defense classes.
Neither helped me.
I was raped in March, 2002. He used a rookie in my cocktail.
Does this make me weak, pathetic, and/or whiny as a certain poster has posited?


I promise you, you don't want to go down this road with Quizzical.
She'll tell you you shouldn't have been drinking in the first place.

(in reply to SweetnStormySub)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:31:33 PM   
SweetnStormySub


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From: Buckeye State
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No, I don't...truly. But as one who survived such an attack, I had to speak up. And I really had to edit my first draft, otherwise, the Mod may have booted me *waves hello to the rafters*

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:34:38 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
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From: The Shire
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I have also survived an attack, quizzical has ALSO survived such an attack.
She has a different viewpoint.

I'm so sorry that happened to you though. <3

(in reply to SweetnStormySub)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 6:38:17 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetForDaddy

Have you guys seen this video: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman

It's about street harassment and is causing quite a storm of debate on YouTube. Would be interesting to hear the opinion of people on here.


She's a chic!

Get over it!

She's fine...she also gets free dinners....doors held open, asked out.

I'm sure it's awful being a woman walking down the streets (anywhere), but it could be worse.

She could be a guy.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 11/3/2014 7:07:12 PM >

(in reply to SweetForDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 7:11:07 PM   
dcnovice


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FR/PSA



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 1:14:40 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
She's fine...she also gets free dinners....doors held open, asked out.

I know men who gets chauffeured by women in their fancy Porsche and get free dinners from them, gets gift and asked out. Not old grandmas, but hot young rich women in their 20's.

Men who are charming enough and good looking enough don't need to be rich, women will pamper them.

Just like women, the wealthy men wants the best looking ones too.

Recently there was this case, a rich female student was chasing her professor. She buys him $1000 over dollars pens. Takes him out to posh restaurants and foots the bill, all in wooing him. They had sex too. It became media frenzy because they questioned if her grades were a result of all the things she did to sweeten him up.

Women do woo men, you just aren't lucky enough to get wooed.

My own brother is in school, while his girlfriend works full time, and she foots the bill for everything for him.

And I financially supported my xhusband for first 2 years of our lives living together. Infact, our marital home, I paid 100% for it, he didn't put a cent to it.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/4/2014 1:17:27 AM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 4:20:45 AM   
SweetForDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You are missing the point.
In Muslim-styled countries, men rule and women are lower than 3rd-class citizens.
Women must do what their menfolk tell them.

And in Muslim-styled countries, women must cover up otherwise they are considered to be inviting trouble by being 'provocative'.

That state of mind and societal position is not in place in the majority of the USA and non-Muslim countries.
So the point is..... in non-Muslim countries, that attitude isn't prevalent.

So your claim of 'everywhere' to the extreme of actually being harassed and groped in the streets and nothing being done about it is because... Muslim men do that as part of their culture and women don't even count as people.
It is normal and expected and for the most part, there is no law against it.
It is extremely common for such behaviour in pretty much most countries where the population is Islamic based or Islamic controlled.
Even rape is common but women cannot usually gain a conviction because of Islamic/cultural expectations.
In India, it is illegal. But because a huge swathe of the population is Muslim/Hindu/Islamic, the men get away with not even being arrested let alone prosecuted.

Which is why, in most non-Muslim countries, that sort of behaviour is usually illegal to some degree.




I think that is a bit insulting to muslims really. The women are covered but muslim men are also told to lower their eyes in the presence of women that they do not know, and they are told not to look lustfully at any woman other than their wife. Its called the hijab of the eyes. I'm sure that doesn't work perfectly in practice but thats what they are supposed to do according to the quran.

< Message edited by SweetForDaddy -- 11/4/2014 4:22:14 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 5:05:37 AM   
SweetForDaddy


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/17/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


OR learn self defense which I had before I started carrying....

Or you can continue to whine and cry because some guy said you were purdy... It makes total sense that youd whine and cry and be terrified because someone said you were purdy,

I get it, Its terrifying for a guy to compliment you, I understand completely.

Its why women are called the weaker sex, its why men think were prey, BECAUSE WE ACT LIKE IT...

Funny how when you stop acting like prey you stop getting treated like it...



Not everyone is or wants to be a black belt in karate, or is able or wants to carry a gun or mace or whatever. That is actually being fearful to me. Why would you need to carry a gun unless you felt like you needed protecting in some way?

We are the weaker sex physically almost all of the time, that cant be disputed.

And what might be a compliment to you might not be to another woman, most women in fact do not like comments on their appearance in a public space from a stranger. A normal greeting is fine, but its not fine when its accompanied by following someone or leering at them, that then cancels out the nice greeting. We may not always feel physically threatened but we may feel uncomfortable or embarrassed or annoyed by it. And its impossible to know if someone means these things as a compliment a lot of the time, its impossible to know a strangers intention on the street.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 5:34:37 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
She's fine...she also gets free dinners....doors held open, asked out.

I know men who gets chauffeured by women in their fancy Porsche and get free dinners from them, gets gift and asked out. Not old grandmas, but hot young rich women in their 20's.

Men who are charming enough and good looking enough don't need to be rich, women will pamper them.

Just like women, the wealthy men wants the best looking ones too.

Recently there was this case, a rich female student was chasing her professor. She buys him $1000 over dollars pens. Takes him out to posh restaurants and foots the bill, all in wooing him. They had sex too. It became media frenzy because they questioned if her grades were a result of all the things she did to sweeten him up.

Women do woo men, you just aren't lucky enough to get wooed.

My own brother is in school, while his girlfriend works full time, and she foots the bill for everything for him.

And I financially supported my xhusband for first 2 years of our lives living together. Infact, our marital home, I paid 100% for it, he didn't put a cent to it.


You got a sister?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 6:32:40 AM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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FR

I found some interesting commentary about this video. One thing I didn't realize when I first viewed it was that the video was produced by a marketing agency and that the woman in the video is an actress.

The Problem With That Catcalling Video

quote:


The video is a collaboration between Hollaback, an anti-street harassment organization, and the marketing agency Rob Bliss Creative. At the end they claim the woman experienced 100-plus incidents of harassment “involving people of all backgrounds.” Since that obviously doesn’t show up in the video, Bliss addressed it in a post. He wrote, “We got a fair amount of white guys, but for whatever reason, a lot of what they said was in passing, or off camera,” or was ruined by a siren or other noise. The final product, he writes, “is not a perfect representation of everything that happened.” That may be true but if you find yourself editing out all the catcalling white guys, maybe you should try another take.

This is not the first time Bliss has been called out for race blindness. In a video to promote Grand Rapids, Michigan, he was criticized for making a city that’s a third minority and a quarter poor look like it was filled with people who have “been reincarnated from those peppy family-style 1970s musical acts from Disney World or Knott’s Berry Farm,” as a local blogger wrote.


“Hey, Beautiful”: On the Racist and Classist Implications of the Catcalling Video

quote:

The fact that the video chooses to showcase the experience of a white woman experiencing harassment almost exclusively at the hands of black and Latino men is a pretty clear indication of who the audience for this video is supposed to be, namely, those who seek to protect and defend innocent white women, aka the already existing societal power structure. It’s no coincidence that Roberts is presented in the video as being explicitly not responsible for the attacks on her because she’s not wearing “provocative” clothes and she doesn’t respond to any of the verbal assaults thrown at her. The clear implication here is that Roberts is just an innocent woman who doesn’t deserve these catcalls, thus suggesting that there are some women who, because of the way they dress or because of the way they respond, could be thought to be asking for it. Roberts is, in a sense, the ideal victim, the one we love to rally behind. Not only is she not asking for all these catcalls, but in case you had any doubts that she definitely doesn’t want to be approached, it is made clear that Roberts has a boyfriend who is filming her because he too wants to protect her from… whom exactly? Oh, multitudes of anonymous black and Latino men? How gallant of him. How evocative of countless other examples of men wanting to protect the safety of white women.

...

Hollaback continues to caution that street harassment is “not a ‘cultural’ thing, perpetrated mostly by men of color” but is rather a “‘cultural’ thing in the sense that it emerges from a culture of sexism—and unfortunately—that is everyone’s culture.” Even Roberts herself admits, “I’m harassed by white men, black men, latino men. Not a day goes by when I don’t experience this.”

And yet, despite the acknowledgement that street harassment primarily affects people other than straight white women, and that the perpetrators are not limited to one racial group or one socio-economic class, the video helps to perpetuate the long-held, erroneous belief that harassment mostly takes the form of white women being bothered by “low class” men of color. Why? Well, maybe—just maybe—this has to do with the fact that, through this video, Hollaback is soliciting viewers for donations, and is thus counting on the outrage of people with money, i.e. people who have disposable income and a certain place in the pre-existing power structure which has no problem with the ongoing propagation of the myth of the white woman as the ur-victim.

The problem isn’t just that this video exists, it’s also that there’s no video of what more typical street harassment actually looks like, which is probably because a transwoman of color being harassed might not be as much of a donation getter as the video of Roberts. This morning, Ayesha Siddiqi, editor-in-chief of The New Inquiry, tweeted extensively about her problems with the video, and wrote: “a white woman filming & shaming black men for saying hi to her are you sure your gender equality doesnt look a lot like class+race anxiety,” going on to say, “the reason rape statistics are so high in this country is bc of the disproportionate lvl of violence against women of color.” Siddiqi also issued this reminder: “white women yr protection has always been the available guise for policing men of color here+abroad be careful how yr deploying yourselves;” and tweeted: ”women of color let’s make videos of what it’s like walking thru crowds of drunk white guys at sporting events/st Patrick’s day/frat events.”

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/4/2014 6:46:08 AM   
SweetForDaddy


Posts: 167
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

FR

I found some interesting commentary about this video. One thing I didn't realize when I first viewed it was that the video was produced by a marketing agency and that the woman in the video is an actress.




It was unfortunate that they were mostly black men on show, I'm not sure there were sinister reasons for that though. It might have been sensible to reshoot but maybe they didn't have the funding to do that. It didn't colour my opinion because I've experienced it personally from men of all colours, and in worse ways but I can see how it might colour some peoples views if this is their only experience of seeing it. You can definitely see that it added fuel to the racists arguments from the comments on YouTube. It's not a race issue so to portray it as possibly being so is wrong. The video is far from perfect but I still think its useful.


< Message edited by SweetForDaddy -- 11/4/2014 7:20:08 AM >

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 100
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