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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:00:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

...Must be an American thing.

I highly doubt that. 80 % of Egyptian women and 90% of foreign women in Egypt ADMIT to being harassed and groped on the street.

Why "admit" in all caps? Because like as not, she will be accused of being provocative.

That would be expected of any Muslim-style country.
But we are talking about the USA here - completely different kettle of fish.

Japan has always reported high levels of women being groped in public transportation. Japan is not Muslim.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:05:09 PM

quizzicalkitten

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Honestly....if some guy says "hey beautiful, what's up?" as you're walking by...are you really physically threatened every time?

Of course not. But you don't know which time you will be physically threatened if you do or don't respond.

And this happens to every female once she's old enough to be in middle school.
Should a 12 year old walking from her brother's baseball game to the ice cream store one block away have a group of 20something males slow down and say things to her? Should she be frightened when they pull over to the curb and one starts to get out?

This happened to my daughter and we live in a small town. This was not in NYC.

Should an adult male in his 30s come upon a 14 year old girl feeding a horse and prevent her from getting back to the other kids and adults 200' up the hill in the barn? No. But it did. I happened to be going to the barn, stopped the car, sent the kid up the hill and made it clear that if he had any business there to call the number on the sign at the bottom of the driveway. And then I called the barn owner who called the police.

Id really love for all you "women" to stop saying what isnt or isnt acceptable for everyone....

I get cat called all the time, I like shifty have had a guy expose himself to me and start to jack off (I <3 Philly) Ive be called names, and had guys follow me....

Ive never once felt physically threatened by any of my hecklers.

Why? Because I learned self defense, I learned how to disable someone 4 times my size and now I carry a gun.

How about instead of being weak and pathetic and whine alot about a dude on the street, you learn to shake it off.

Ive had worse from women being catty and bitchy then I ever had from being cat called by men.

< Message edited by quizzicalkitten -- 11/3/2014 4:06:08 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:14:08 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Honestly....if some guy says "hey beautiful, what's up?" as you're walking by...are you really physically threatened every time?

Of course not. But you don't know which time you will be physically threatened if you do or don't respond.

And this happens to every female once she's old enough to be in middle school.
Should a 12 year old walking from her brother's baseball game to the ice cream store one block away have a group of 20something males slow down and say things to her? Should she be frightened when they pull over to the curb and one starts to get out?

This happened to my daughter and we live in a small town. This was not in NYC.

Should an adult male in his 30s come upon a 14 year old girl feeding a horse and prevent her from getting back to the other kids and adults 200' up the hill in the barn? No. But it did. I happened to be going to the barn, stopped the car, sent the kid up the hill and made it clear that if he had any business there to call the number on the sign at the bottom of the driveway. And then I called the barn owner who called the police.

Id really love for all you "women" to stop saying what isnt or isnt acceptable for everyone....

I get cat called all the time, I like shifty have had a guy expose himself to me and start to jack off (I <3 Philly) Ive be called names, and had guys follow me....

Ive never once felt physically threatened by any of my hecklers.

Why? Because I learned self defense, I learned how to disable someone 4 times my size and now I carry a gun.

How about instead of being weak and pathetic and whine alot about a dude on the street, you learn to shake it off.

Ive had worse from women being catty and bitchy then I ever had from being cat called by men.

NY and NJ have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. Carrying a gun isn't always an option, unfortunately.

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:18:51 PM

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I think it's bizarre that you believe the harassment is non-threatening and no problem because you now CARRY A GUN. Does this make sense to you, really? We vagina-bearers can all just walk around fully armed and stop our whining? Some kind of world view you have.

< Message edited by Spiritedsub2 -- 11/3/2014 4:19:20 PM >

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RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:25:41 PM

quizzicalkitten

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I think it's bizarre that you believe the harassment is non-threatening and no problem because you now CARRY A GUN. Does this make sense to you, really? We vagina-bearers can all just walk around fully armed and stop our whining? Some kind of world view you have.

OR learn self defense which I had before I started carrying....

Or you can continue to whine and cry because some guy said you were purdy... It makes total sense that youd whine and cry and be terrified because someone said you were purdy,

I get it, Its terrifying for a guy to compliment you, I understand completely.

Its why women are called the weaker sex, its why men think were prey, BECAUSE WE ACT LIKE IT...

Funny how when you stop acting like prey you stop getting treated like it...

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:33:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
OR learn self defense which I had before I started carrying....

Self-defense is no 100% foolproof way of protecting yourself when up against a man.

I learnt self-defense but up against a man much bigger and stronger than me, I still feel at disadvantaged.

When I was 120lbs, I used to train with someone 220lbs to get myself used to bigger and stronger men, but I still could not beat him.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:34:34 PM

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So DesFip's daughter, who she said was 14? Should learn self defense? REALLY?
Or are you saying Des should learn it? And risk the assault conviction for beating someone up?

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:38:37 PM

quizzicalkitten

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EVERY woman should know self defense regardless of age, It would help a lot of people feel less threatened by "boy you there are sure purdy"

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:45:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

EVERY woman should know self defense regardless of age, It would help a lot of people feel less threatened by "boy you there are sure purdy"

You are saying this AS IF self-defense means the woman will be able to beat the crap out of a man like Kung Fu movies, and threaten the hell out of him. And intimidate them never to say anything to you again.

If you watch that video, most of the men harassing her are significantly taller and heavier than her. IF they gang up on her, she will stand very little chance.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:49:57 PM

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I just think the fact you carry a gun or know karate to protect yourself against men...says a lot about what men have done to you.
Do you really more well adjusted than the many women in this thread?

Also, a great deal of us said that "You're pretty" isn't that threatening- its pretty obnoxious, rude and intrusive though. But many did say they have felt threatened by more extreme behavior before.
Stop making excuses for these guys. Or don't.
We all get that you have nerves of steel and all the bad shit that happened to you has made you extra badass...we can all hope to be as strong and awesome as you someday.

ETA: More Extreme- for clarity.

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 11/3/2014 4:51:04 PM >

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:51:08 PM

quizzicalkitten

Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

EVERY woman should know self defense regardless of age, It would help a lot of people feel less threatened by "boy you there are sure purdy"

You are saying this AS IF self-defense means the woman will be able to beat the crap out of a man like Kung Fu movies, and threaten the hell out of him. And intimidate them never to say anything to you again.

If you watch that video, most of the men harassing her are significantly taller and heavier than her. IF they gang up on her, she will stand very little chance.

I learned how to break a chokehold from a man 3 times my size and disable him to get away. Its called being prepared. Its why the class I still go to is taught by an Ex Israeli special forces member.

I did watch the video, I also regonized several of the "cat callers" from Tv shows and c movies, I also noticed that the "whole footage" repeats in several sections..

So Yeah, I feel terrible for an actress in a staged video showing how bad life weally is for a fake chick in a fake video to show fakeness....

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:51:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Honestly....if some guy says "hey beautiful, what's up?" as you're walking by...are you really physically threatened every time?

Yes, because you know this guy would be dregs of society and unpredictable how his gonna take you ignoring him. If his having a bad day, and you're the chosen victim, he could start, "Why ya gotta so stuck up just because you're beautiful?" I would be terrified and walk faster away.

I believe no decent man would do that. I don't know a single male in my circle who would do that ever, even Caucasian men, it would be beneath them.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/3/2014 4:53:52 PM >

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:52:48 PM

quizzicalkitten

Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I just think the fact you carry a gun or know karate to protect yourself against men...says a lot about what men have done to you.
Do you really more well adjusted than the many women in this thread?

Also, a great deal of us said that "You're pretty" isn't that threatening- its pretty obnoxious, rude and intrusive though. But many did say they have felt threatened by more extreme behavior before.
Stop making excuses for these guys. Or don't.
We all get that you have nerves of steel and all the bad shit that happened to you has made you extra badass...we can all hope to be as strong and awesome as you someday.

ETA: More Extreme- for clarity.

Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:54:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
Honestly....if some guy says "hey beautiful, what's up?" as you're walking by...are you really physically threatened every time?

Of course not. But you don't know which time you will be physically threatened if you do or don't respond.

And this happens to every female once she's old enough to be in middle school.

Yes it does. But, you know? Living in fear of those idiots that do it isn't the answer either.

I learned early on just to continue to walk. Over 9 times out of 10, that will solve the issue.

I believe that I'm far more likely to be accosted by someone who *doesn't* approach me in that way. The true predators....those people to really be "afraid of" don't have this MO. At least, that's my experience.

The vast majority of these "cat callers" are idiots, to be sure...Boors with no social skills. And boors who, more than 9 times out of 10, will just leave things be if you turn and walk away.

I grew up walking in the streets of NYC. I've seen all of this crap. And, without carrying a gun, I've made it through, just like the vast majority of females. I also grew up without fear. Yes, there were places you didn't go, especially at night...but you still went about your life (actually...back in my early days, you wouldn't tread into the subway....certainly things have changed...). I actually don't believe much else has really changed, with the exception of the response. And, I will go back to what I said earlier... ignoring and walking away. The tried and true method.

< Message edited by littleladybug -- 11/3/2014 4:59:48 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:56:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I believe no decent man would do that. I don't know a single male in my circle who would do that ever, even Caucasian men, it would be beneath them.

And I 100% agree with you.

ETA---

I would just say, from my experience, that it would be *especially* Caucasian men....

< Message edited by littleladybug -- 11/3/2014 4:57:54 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 4:56:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.

You definitely have the blame the victim mentality though. The point is, women shouldn't have to carry guns and take up martial arts to protect themselves from men. Men should be protecting us.

And this isn't us being weak or pathetic. I would protect my little brother as an elder sister. As a Mom, I would protect my young son. The strong should protect the weak. As simple as that. And I would protect any man or woman weaker than me.

If you had a weak and frail little brother who keeps getting bullied at school, you're gonna call him pathetic and weak?

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/3/2014 4:58:01 PM >

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:03:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I just think the fact you carry a gun or know karate to protect yourself against men...says a lot about what men have done to you.
Do you really more well adjusted than the many women in this thread?

Also, a great deal of us said that "You're pretty" isn't that threatening- its pretty obnoxious, rude and intrusive though. But many did say they have felt threatened by more extreme behavior before.
Stop making excuses for these guys. Or don't.
We all get that you have nerves of steel and all the bad shit that happened to you has made you extra badass...we can all hope to be as strong and awesome as you someday.

ETA: More Extreme- for clarity.

Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.

It isn't confusing.
Its disheartening.
And I honestly do feel very sorry for you. We obviously clash on a lot of things, as we've now gotten two threads pulled on a similar topic.

I don't wish to bicker with you over this. But...I think its sad you feel people don't deserve better than this.
Maybe its that you feel this is a lost cause and better to join 'em if you can't beat 'em? I don't know.
Why is this behavior passable and acceptable to you? What you permit, you promote.
I don't want to live in a world where a 14 year old girl needs to know karate to keep an adult man from creeping on her.

What IS confusing to me is why you find women complaining about this more pathetic than the guys (and sure, girls) out there getting their ego boost off of this?

And I disagree with Greta- men shouldn't have to protect us. PEOPLE just shouldn't harass people. And yes, I know it will never stop. But I still feel calling it to attention is important because perhaps one of these people will realize its poor form and back off.

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:05:24 PM

quizzicalkitten

Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.

You definitely have the blame the victim mentality though. The point is, women shouldn't have to carry guns and take up martial arts to protect themselves from men. Men should be protecting us.

And this isn't us being weak or pathetic. I would protect my little brother as an elder sister. As a Mom, I would protect my young son. The strong should protect the weak. As simple as that. And I would protect any man or woman weaker than me.

If you had a weak and frail little brother who keeps getting bullied at school, you're gonna call him pathetic and weak?

NO YOU think men should be protecting us. I think I should be protecting MYSELF Thats the difference between the weak and the strong. I dont need a guy to walk with me at night or keep me safe. You might, but then again with the weak thing. If I had a little brother Id do what my sister and brother taught me when I was the weak and little one, which was HOW TO FIGHT BACK...

Men like this arent going to magically stop because you tell them that they hurt your fweelings... They knock it off when you stop acting like prey.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:08:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
Men like this arent going to magically stop because you tell them that they hurt your fweelings... They knock it off when you stop acting like prey.

Why is it that it is achievable in my country but not in the USA. They have magically stopped in my country, that's why I believe it is possible, I don't need to know martial arts or carry guns around. I don't even need to dress down to avoid unwanted attention. With education, it's all about education and how men are brought up. And also law regulations on how strict they enforce it.

Victim blaming is just giving excuses to the perpetrators. Instead of going after the perpetrators and shutting them down. We went after and came down hard on men who do things like this, and men stopped, with the law.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/3/2014 5:10:38 PM >

(in reply to quizzicalkitten)

RE: 10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman - 11/3/2014 5:10:43 PM

quizzicalkitten

Posts: 312
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I just think the fact you carry a gun or know karate to protect yourself against men...says a lot about what men have done to you.
Do you really more well adjusted than the many women in this thread?

Also, a great deal of us said that "You're pretty" isn't that threatening- its pretty obnoxious, rude and intrusive though. But many did say they have felt threatened by more extreme behavior before.
Stop making excuses for these guys. Or don't.
We all get that you have nerves of steel and all the bad shit that happened to you has made you extra badass...we can all hope to be as strong and awesome as you someday.

ETA: More Extreme- for clarity.

Im not extra badass or extreme... Im just not fucking pathetic..I get that its confusing for you its okay though.

It isn't confusing.
Its disheartening.
And I honestly do feel very sorry for you. We obviously clash on a lot of things, as we've now gotten two threads pulled on a similar topic.

I don't wish to bicker with you over this. But...I think its sad you feel people don't deserve better than this.
Maybe its that you feel this is a lost cause and better to join 'em if you can't beat 'em? I don't know.
Why is this behavior passable and acceptable to you? What you permit, you promote.
I don't want to live in a world where a 14 year old girl needs to know karate to keep an adult man from creeping on her.

What IS confusing to me is why you find women complaining about this more pathetic than the guys (and sure, girls) out there getting their ego boost off of this?

And I disagree with Greta- men shouldn't have to protect us. PEOPLE just shouldn't harass people. And yes, I know it will never stop. But I still feel calling it to attention is important because perhaps one of these people will realize its poor form and back off.

I dont find a guy hitting on me or cat calling me to be harassment. I dont see a problem with someone expressing an interest me even if they do it crassly. I do see a problem with vilifying and creating rapist out of every man alive. I do see an issue with creating rape and problems where there isnt.

I find an issue with a FAKE video with FAKE people promoting an over the top FAKE thing, to make an issue out of how terrible it is to be a girl. I also have an issue that every video of women doing the same thing is DISMISSED completely as "well you just dont understand your a boy... "

If its a problem which to me its not, it should be a problem with women doing it to men too....

(in reply to shiftyw)

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