Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant? (Sissification)

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Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the dominant?... - 12/16/2014 5:47:20 PM

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Not sure if I want to write an essay on this subject (I have...one that's slightly related *sigh* ) or not.
I think the best way is to introduce the topic and let it flow naturally.

So...I'm not a fan of this myself and I don't quite understand how it works.
Let's make two distinctions here.

Transgender (What my essay was about) - Not the topic.
Sissy (The topic).

Difference from my point of view?

The first one is about identity.
The later one is about humiliation and submission.

They can be one and the same. But they aren't per se. Not in this topic at least.

So, if the general sissy goes through this process to feel submissive, to feel humiliated and owned then how can possibly a very feminine dominant live with a partner who has this perception on gender roles? More importantly, how does dressing him up like you (not quite...but you get my point) make sense to your power dynamic?

Why not a butler instead of a sissy maid for example?

PS: Is there a girl equivalent?

< Message edited by YouName -- 12/16/2014 5:56:23 PM >

RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/16/2014 6:21:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

So, if the general sissy goes through this process to feel submissive, to feel humiliated and owned then how can possibly a very feminine dominant live with a partner who has this perception on gender roles? More importantly, how does dressing him up like you (not quite...but you get my point) make sense to your power dynamic?

It doesn't, to me.

But then, I'm not into humiliation, much.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/16/2014 9:02:37 PM

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It is erotic for men to blur gender lines and there is nothing inherently humiliating about it. It is a natural, inborn impulse.

What is humiliating comes from society and the fact that CDing has to be done in privacy. It is the rare man who could actually dress in public and withstand the reaction and judgments he'd receive. Women, on the other hand, have no equivalent and are fully emancipated when it comes to being masculine.

Back to men, it is disorienting to be male and be situated in a middle gender space (sissy), and this vulnerablity coupled with eroticism offers a great deal of control and influence to the interested woman. The interested woman, who can go against sexist stereotypes and societal conventions assumes a kind of goddess role to a guy exploring this territory -- because she is rare indeed.

In general men experience rejection and disdain when not being a "real man." Once again, this comes from society and its rigid gender roles. It also comes from women who can be particularly hostile and rejecting.

On the other hand, when a man is with an accepting woman, he is not humiliated -- it is the opposite -- he feels a protected vindication of self that others would castigate.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/16/2014 9:06:18 PM >

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/16/2014 11:24:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
<snip>
In general men experience rejection and disdain when not being a "real man." Once again, this comes from society and its rigid gender roles. It also comes from women who can be particularly hostile and rejecting.

On the other hand, when a man is with an accepting woman, he is not humiliated -- it is the opposite -- he feels a protected vindication of self that others would castigate.

Really, the being with an accepting partner is key. But cloudboy, there is a difference between a man who enjoys cross-dressing and doesn't go out in public trying to "pass" himself off as a woman, and a sissyCD who wants to be treated like a girl.
Then there's the additional aspect of whether humiliation play is a part of a cross-dresser's repertoire that he seeks. That, in itself, is a separate element.

Most vanilla women who might be accepting of having a cross-dressing "girlfriend" to hang out with from time to time are not looking for a cross-dressing boyfriend or husband.
When it comes to (straight) kinky women, why should we be any different in our choice of a male partner? We're probably much more tolerant, less rejecting, but that doesn't mean that a straight kinky woman wants this in a sexual partner. (A bisexual Domme may be more open to this, but she may also want an asexual relationship with a non-primary male sub, getting her sexual needs met elsewhere.)
Btw, there are cross-dressing Doms, so this doesn't apply to just S/switches and subs either.

I don't believe it is hostile for a Domme to tell a sissyCD that this is not what she is looking for in a sub.
He will take it as a rejection, but there are plenty of other criteria which will disqualify a sub for consideration by a Domme. Incompatibility and differences in priorities in all kinds of areas. Just as there are plenty of reasons for a woman to not be interested in any given man.
Being a sissyCD is NOT what all Dommes are trying to turn their male subs into, and there is a gross misconception there. Not only is this misperception unfair to sissies seeking a Mistress, by assuming that FemDoms get into that sort of thing, but you have to keep in mind that sissification is male-driven, not female-driven, just as most fetishes are.

Frankly, I can find a vanilla man to give me a foot massage. What I don't want is some man to start slobbering all over my feet or sexually objectifying my body parts as his fetish object.
(This applies equally to those subs who say they enjoy 4-5 hours of oral worship. They're the ones who fantasize about doing it for 4-5 hours. No woman in her right mind would derive enjoyment from O.D.ing on this.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

So, if the general sissy goes through this process to feel submissive, to feel humiliated and owned then how can possibly a very feminine dominant live with a partner who has this perception on gender roles? More importantly, how does dressing him up like you (not quite...but you get my point) make sense to your power dynamic?

It doesn't, to me.

But then, I'm not into humiliation, much.

Me neither. It's a matter of personal preference what turns on a person, as it everything else, including wanting a primary partner or one of your subs to be a sissyCD.
I happen to be a straight Domme who is not for hire to indulge male subs' fetishes & kinks. I want what I want, and I know what I want.
I have nothing against sissies or a man who wants to get feminized. I just don't want one as my sub, and I have no desire to fuck one.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 1:59:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
I happen to be a straight Domme who is not for hire to indulge male subs' fetishes & kinks. I want what I want, and I know what I want.
I have nothing against sissies or a man who wants to get feminized. I just don't want one as my sub, and I have no desire to fuck one.

Same for me. Except I'm bi, and I prefer my men to be masculine and my women to be feminine, for sexual relations.

Now, in friends... I'll accept any and all along the non-binary gender spectrum. But, just as I'm not sexually attracted to most blondse, or super skinny people, I have preferences in my presentation of gender as well.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 7:11:56 AM

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Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 7:48:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Can someone here make the distinction between a sissy and a cross-dresser because to my untrained eye you seem to be blurring the line for me.

To me, a sissy is a male-identified person forced to dress as female for the purposes of servitude and humiliation. A cross-dresser chooses to dress as the gender other than their identified gender because they enjoy the dress up (or perhaps feel more comfortable).

Very different attitudes.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 7:54:26 AM

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Ah good, I thought you meant it isn't like that for you, not that it doesn't make sense for you.
All is well then except that I haven't become much wiser :P

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 9:34:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Ah good, I thought you meant it isn't like that for you, not that it doesn't make sense for you.
All is well then except that I haven't become much wiser :P

If I ever become wise, I'll be shocked. LOL!

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 10:50:35 PM

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I just thought I would weigh in on this since I've thought a lot about the topic of cross dressing...

My experience has been that most Dommes do not enjoy males cross dressing because dressing like a woman shouldn't be considered humiliating, or they just don't like humiliation in general.

My perspective of it though is that women's clothing / lingerie is designed to accentuate the body and display it to the viewer in an enticing or pleasing fashion. So I view cross dressing as a way of presenting my body to a viewer in a way that might please her.

I understand that most Dommes may not think of it in this way, but that's my take on it for what it is worth.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/17/2014 11:23:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SanDieoSub

My experience has been that most Dommes do not enjoy males cross dressing because dressing like a woman shouldn't be considered humiliating, or they just don't like humiliation in general.a way that might please her.
...
I understand that most Dommes may not think of it in this way, but that's my take on it for what it is worth.

Like anything else, it really does depend upon the Domme.
I wish a Domme or two who does enjoy having her sub cross-dress and/or who likes having or does have a sissyCD sub would weigh in with her perspective.

In general, I've found that most Dominants (whether sadistic or not) will hone in on a sub's hot buttons. What we decide to do with this is up to our discretion (within pre-negotiated limits). Humiliation - with or without degradation - is a flashing hot button. Cross-dressing can be an expression for that in terms of sissification.

I feel that as a Dominant, one must be very careful in how we might mix up the two. Humiliation is one of those fetishes where both parties have to be 100% in alignment as to what pre-designated boundaries should or should not be crossed. (I won't even go into the degradation aspect because I'm not into that at all.)
There could be gender-identity issues, past trauma, many psychological triggers which are best left alone or dealt with in therapy. BDSM is not therapy. It may have therapeutic benefits, but few of us are qualified as professional counselors, and even if we were, there would be a conflict of interest.

In your case SDS, you are describing more of a sensual experience or outlet, and I hear this on occasion from cross-dressers who are not sissies. The difference, in my mind at least, is that one could be more the occasional or limited kink, whereas with sissies it is their primary fetish. From my own past experiences, myself and fetishists don't match. Also, I have no need for more platonically based, asexual girlish friendships at this time in my life. (I've always preferred the company of men.) It's just a matter of priorities.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 6:22:55 AM

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One of the only explanations I've ever heard that didn't make me bristle was essentially a boy talking about how the humiliating part, for him, was being shown what he could never be. The lovely lace was blocky on his lack of curves, the shade of lipstick that was alluring on his lady was garish on him. Not to mention the physical upkeep necessary - body hair removal being the big one. It was another reminder of what comes effortlessly to women that he would never be able to achieve. (Yes, I know it doesn't come effortlessly to women! That was just his perception, since many of our guys never see the upkeep work.)

My boy is big into sissification, though it's not his only kink. And it's something I still, after years of dressing and humiliating him, have trouble wrapping my mind around. How can I associate females with strength and power, and then feminize him and glory in his weakness? It's a tough question.
Some of it comes down to semantics for me. I am a woman. When he's in his frills, he's a GIRL. Unsure, just coming into his femininity, vulnerable. In "real life," he's significantly older than me, but in those moments, we both see him as smaller, weaker (also not true otherwise), needing guidance. Very much like a sheltered girl.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 7:28:30 AM

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My favorite panties on a boy are lace/slutty underwear because I like when his phallus is veiled and there is little attempt to hide it so it is clear what our genders are. I have never been with Transgendered/more feminine boys (unfortunately) but lacey panties are my favorite and I like for his masculinity to be apparent despite that. There's something about a man in lace panties that I truly enjoy. If I ever do get to play extensively with a TG I would be pansexual, what a feat.
I think Miyani for me, it's for him to emulate his unattainable ideal. I am guessing here, like Miyani, never thought too deeply into it.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 8:12:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is erotic for men to blur gender lines and there is nothing inherently humiliating about it. It is a natural, inborn impulse.

What is humiliating comes from society and the fact that CDing has to be done in privacy. It is the rare man who could actually dress in public and withstand the reaction and judgments he'd receive. Women, on the other hand, have no equivalent and are fully emancipated when it comes to being masculine.

Back to men, it is disorienting to be male and be situated in a middle gender space (sissy), and this vulnerablity coupled with eroticism offers a great deal of control and influence to the interested woman. The interested woman, who can go against sexist stereotypes and societal conventions assumes a kind of goddess role to a guy exploring this territory -- because she is rare indeed.

In general men experience rejection and disdain when not being a "real man." Once again, this comes from society and its rigid gender roles. It also comes from women who can be particularly hostile and rejecting.

On the other hand, when a man is with an accepting woman, he is not humiliated -- it is the opposite -- he feels a protected vindication of self that others would castigate.

I quoted this because it was such a good post.

I have had a lot of involvement with cross dressers and I have had many a sissy come and help me out at parties. Being married to a CD had nothing whatsoever to do with me being a bi woman. Some men enjoy expressing their feminine side more than others and I personally find that mind set very attractive; that though, doesn't mean I find it sexually attractive but it also doesn't mean we didn't get down and dirty when he was all dolled up.

What I love about CD's is, they tend to be flamboyant in their over all character and yet they do become shy and vulnerable which adds to a usually very fluid submission. This is what turns me on and not because he now looks like a she because most of them don't. Its all about the mind set.

The sissies I have employed or who have helped me out are generally not into an abundance of humiliation (though obviously some are). They genuinely want to look pretty, to be noticed or to be discreet whilst they serve the food. Sissies imo are fantastic at service. They do, do as they are told; they do use a lot of their own initiative and they very much want to please.

A good CD is like an interesting oil painting. Every time you look at them you see something different.

I'm presently looking for a 3rd and I most definitely want a CD to enhance our lifestyle.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 8:27:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani

My boy is big into sissification, though it's not his only kink. And it's something I still, after years of dressing and humiliating him, have trouble wrapping my mind around. How can I associate females with strength and power, and then feminize him and glory in his weakness? It's a tough question.
Some of it comes down to semantics for me. I am a woman. When he's in his frills, he's a GIRL. Unsure, just coming into his femininity, vulnerable. In "real life," he's significantly older than me, but in those moments, we both see him as smaller, weaker (also not true otherwise), needing guidance. Very much like a sheltered girl.

Hi Miyani :)

I spoke to my ex husband a lot about this and this is the gist of what he told me: As a man he was well aware that he was bigger and stronger than me and although he felt submission through and through, he was very much a realist. When dressed as a female he was able to leave that reality behind. He felt we were much more equal. I'm a fairly fit woman who spent years kick boxing and liked nothing more than a good wrestle with a woman. As a woman, he felt that he could genuinely lose in a fight with me and as a woman he could feel what he called "a delightful nervousness" in my dominance over him.

I don't know if that makes sense!

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 8:46:54 AM

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Hmm, interesting. My interest is purely sexual in its context. Funny how even kinks and their appeal varies from D to D. All that mattered to me is that my boys complied with my taboo requests. Usually they were not insistent in "sissification". They were quite burly and masculine.

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 9:05:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Hmm, interesting. My interest is purely sexual in its context. Funny how even kinks and their appeal varies from D to D.

Absolutely but don't you just love the diversity :)

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 10:01:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Absolutely but don't you just love the diversity :)

Without a doubt. :)

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/18/2014 10:16:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani

One of the only explanations I've ever heard that didn't make me bristle was essentially a boy talking about how the humiliating part, for him, was being shown what he could never be. The lovely lace was blocky on his lack of curves, the shade of lipstick that was alluring on his lady was garish on him. Not to mention the physical upkeep necessary - body hair removal being the big one. It was another reminder of what comes effortlessly to women that he would never be able to achieve. (Yes, I know it doesn't come effortlessly to women! That was just his perception, since many of our guys never see the upkeep work.)

My boy is big into sissification, though it's not his only kink. And it's something I still, after years of dressing and humiliating him, have trouble wrapping my mind around. How can I associate females with strength and power, and then feminize him and glory in his weakness? It's a tough question.
Some of it comes down to semantics for me. I am a woman. When he's in his frills, he's a GIRL. Unsure, just coming into his femininity, vulnerable. In "real life," he's significantly older than me, but in those moments, we both see him as smaller, weaker (also not true otherwise), needing guidance. Very much like a sheltered girl.

Thanks for sharing Miyani.
We tend to learn about things we already knew about from perspectives different than ours. But this is something refreshing altogether.
The whole thing does make a little bit more sense now.

MariaB that does make some sense from his perspective but how do you feel about it? (His perception of your genders general weakness, factual as it may be in physical terms).
I guess you explain that in your previous post a bit; it tends to make (or the individual who is one tends to be) a fairly service oriented person who takes the iniative to please in his role as a "Sissy".

Manko; you find it exciting to order around your subs to do things they normally wouldn't consider, eh? :)

< Message edited by YouName -- 12/18/2014 11:03:00 AM >

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RE: Perception of Gender roles in the mind of the domin... - 12/19/2014 2:51:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

MariaB that does make some sense from his perspective but how do you feel about it? (His perception of your genders general weakness, factual as it may be in physical terms).
I guess you explain that in your previous post a bit; it tends to make (or the individual who is one tends to be) a fairly service oriented person who takes the iniative to please in his role as a "Sissy".

I'm not under the illusion that I'm as physically strong as a man. Its my mind that matters and not my physical strength ;)

A man who is dressed up as a woman is still bigger and physically stronger than me; I'm in no doubt about that but its not something I dwell on because by the time he's comfortable enough to do that with me, he's already freed himself of his inhibitions. What I'm looking to inspire in a person and that person could be man, woman, man dressed up as a woman, is a desire to submit to me. Now submission comes in many forms and although this is something that is rarely discussed, certain types of submission (meaning the way someone submits) is really important to the person who is dominating them. The chemistry of submission is hugely individual and I believe that is why so many male subs fail to find a dominant; they try too hard and instead of being their natural selves, try to do things by the book.

CD's once out and once accepted are, at least in my experience, free to be themselves and so far more likely to inspire me with their individual and much more natural submission. For me its not about the dressing up but about the diversity that creates the mind set.

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