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RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/4/2015 4:30:10 AM   
NookieNotes


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Hi skinpuprebel! Welcome to the forums. *applauds*

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(in reply to skinpuprebel)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/4/2015 4:42:35 AM   
LiveSpark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: skinpuprebel

Hey OP. You obviously don't care to understand it, and don't want to make any real effort to do so. But that is no reason to trivialize these people and their experiences...

Also, I think the most telling thing about this whole thread is the fact that you referred to her as a boy. The news media protocol about dealing with transgender people is to use their preferred pronouns. Every article I read about her has listed her as female. You read one of those articles and when you typed out this thread you made the informed choice to refer to her as a boy.

This not only makes you incredibly insensitive, it means that you have already made up your mind on this topic and you just want to start a thread to mock those people. Seriously, don't be a piece of crap. Have some respect for this poor girl.



Absolutely RIGHT on!!! Thank you so much skinpuprebel and welcome to the forums. We don't have a like button so

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/4/2015 4:57:12 AM   
RockaRolla


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In many ways, I'm tomboyish. I grew up surrounded by guys, and I'm also around them in my professional life. I picked up on some of their characteristics. I relate to men more than women.

I can tell you I don't like makeup, I'm more inclined to want to fix problems you have than sympathize, etc. I can tell you I would probably feel just fine being born male. But that doesn't sound convincing. I can say I think or feel in ways that are traditionally masculine, and it makes sense to me.

My impression is that for a trans person, they're experiencing this jacked up to 11. This is especially true for an MtF like Leelah, because masculine-leaning females are more accepted in society these days than feminine-leaning males.

My boytoy is GQ. He was born male, but his gender expression leans feminine. For a while he tried to take the transition route and become a woman in hopes it would help his dysphoria, because even with discrimination he could find more acceptance as a transwoman than as a "man in makeup." For reasons that would probably derail the thread, transition made him unhappier and he stopped, and now rejects any kind of binary gender identity.

He's become convinced that eliminating masculine/feminine labels from society would eliminate discrimination and feelings of self-loathing against people like him and like Leelah, but I'm not sure what to make of that. I have a hard time imagining a society like that. But I do know there's a definite stigma attached to identifying with traits associated with the "wrong" gender, and that stigma needs to go away more than anything.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/4/2015 7:09:06 AM   
LiveSpark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

In many ways, I'm tomboyish. I grew up surrounded by guys, and I'm also around them in my professional life. I picked up on some of their characteristics. I relate to men more than women.

I can tell you I don't like makeup, I'm more inclined to want to fix problems you have than sympathize, etc. I can tell you I would probably feel just fine being born male. But that doesn't sound convincing. I can say I think or feel in ways that are traditionally masculine, and it makes sense to me.

My impression is that for a trans person, they're experiencing this jacked up to 11. This is especially true for an MtF like Leelah, because masculine-leaning females are more accepted in society these days than feminine-leaning males.

My boytoy is GQ. He was born male, but his gender expression leans feminine. For a while he tried to take the transition route and become a woman in hopes it would help his dysphoria, because even with discrimination he could find more acceptance as a transwoman than as a "man in makeup." For reasons that would probably derail the thread, transition made him unhappier and he stopped, and now rejects any kind of binary gender identity.

He's become convinced that eliminating masculine/feminine labels from society would eliminate discrimination and feelings of self-loathing against people like him and like Leelah, but I'm not sure what to make of that. I have a hard time imagining a society like that. But I do know there's a definite stigma attached to identifying with traits associated with the "wrong" gender, and that stigma needs to go away more than anything.


We are very much the same RR. I too grew up playing with boys, preferring their toys to stereotypical girls toys. I wore pants and such (a defensive move on the part of my mom who got tired of me shredding dresses lol) and in every respect was and still am for the large part a tomboy. I STILL identify as female always have always will. I firmly believe being trans is so much more than preferring so-called "boys" stuff.

I don't think going down the road of gender neutrality is the way to go. We will still identify as either male or female regardless of the cues we are given by society and our parents. Better to work at eliminating the stigma and descrimination associated with the dysphoria experienced by trans people by teaching kids that the bottom line is that we are all human and compassion is the way to go.

_____________________________

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I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to RockaRolla)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 7:17:39 AM   
Redhusky


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I talked with a boy on getdare who was transgender. He asked in a forum about castration and i said to him, better do temporary castration and from that to decide if he wants to do the real thing. Also i di say you would need somebody with medical background. Later on after few weeks , i saw another post from him. He said, his parents destroyed his girly cloths right in-front of him. He did say, he was sent to a therapy to a man that had the same mentality as his parents, that trying to be a girl is sin. In November, he was kicked out by his own parents just because they found feminine cloths. Dont know what happened with him after that.

< Message edited by Redhusky -- 1/5/2015 7:18:36 AM >

(in reply to LiveSpark)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 8:38:49 AM   
Redhusky


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Also FB had a page called "Go truck yourself". People of this group had encouraging trans people to kill themselves. Actually they asked there members help to phone trans support hotlines, including those dedicated to preventing suicide, in order to block them.

(in reply to Redhusky)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 5:44:41 PM   
SeekingTrinity


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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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~FRing it~

If anyone ever needed a reason to understand the closemindedness and prejudice trans folks face, the beginning of this thread nails it to the wall for sure. SHE was so torn up over not being accepted for who SHE felt SHE was that SHE ended HER own life. She felt like she was a female even though she was male-bodied. How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead? She was so unhappy that she stepped in front of a tractor trailer truck headed down the interstate. How much pain and torment do you think she was in to step in front of a vehicle that could have weighed as much as 80,000 pounds traveling 55+ miles per hour? Surely it deserves something more than referring to her as "he" or "these people."

Honestly, OP...the very best people to ask to help you understand the very questions you have are the very people you are uncomfortable with and are not seeking to interact with.


< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 1/5/2015 6:10:24 PM >

(in reply to Redhusky)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 6:08:47 PM   
LiveSpark


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Right on ST. I find those who said SHE was engaging in teen drama galling. The rate of suicide in the TG community is sky high yet HERS is downplayed as teenage drama. SMDH.

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 8:22:38 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead?


Empathy requires understanding, without understanding the best we can do is sympathy and tolerance.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/5/2015 8:24:18 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Like you LiveSpark, I've found that Trans tend to overdress when out and TG's if anything dress it down a lot. Of course, lots of trans call themselves female too.


What definitions are you using for Trans and TG's?

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 12:24:59 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead?


Empathy requires understanding, without understanding the best we can do is sympathy and tolerance.


That assumes that 'understanding' is riding on the same train as those who think they are born in the wrong body.

Not everyone is riding the same train.


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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 1:40:19 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Like you LiveSpark, I've found that Trans tend to overdress when out and TG's if anything dress it down a lot. Of course, lots of trans call themselves female too.


What definitions are you using for Trans and TG's?


Trans= Transvestite: The practice of dressing and acting in a style or manner traditionally associated with the other sex.

TG= Trans-gender: The state of one's gender identity or gender expression not matching one's assigned sex.

A Transvestite enjoys the style of a woman, including dress and mannerisms but is happy to go back to work as a lorry driver on a Monday morning.

A Trans-gender never wants to identify as the sex he/she was born into and operation or not, will pursue his/her identity on a full time basis.

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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 2:58:35 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Like you LiveSpark, I've found that Trans tend to overdress when out and TG's if anything dress it down a lot. Of course, lots of trans call themselves female too.


What definitions are you using for Trans and TG's?


Trans= Transvestite: The practice of dressing and acting in a style or manner traditionally associated with the other sex.

TG= Trans-gender: The state of one's gender identity or gender expression not matching one's assigned sex.

A Transvestite enjoys the style of a woman, including dress and mannerisms but is happy to go back to work as a lorry driver on a Monday morning.

A Trans-gender never wants to identify as the sex he/she was born into and operation or not, will pursue his/her identity on a full time basis.

Interesting use of words Maria.
Most of us wouldn't use "Trans" for 'Transvestite', we would use 'TV' or CD/XD (cross-dresser).


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 5:45:39 AM   
LiveSpark


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead?


Empathy requires understanding, without understanding the best we can do is sympathy and tolerance.



While we can't know what it feels like to be rejected, taunted, and teased for being TG we can certainly empathize for being rejected, taunted, and teased period. A lot of us have been in her situation, just not because of being TG.

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 5:48:57 AM   
LiveSpark


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Like you LiveSpark, I've found that Trans tend to overdress when out and TG's if anything dress it down a lot. Of course, lots of trans call themselves female too.


What definitions are you using for Trans and TG's?


Trans= Transvestite: The practice of dressing and acting in a style or manner traditionally associated with the other sex.

TG= Trans-gender: The state of one's gender identity or gender expression not matching one's assigned sex.

A Transvestite enjoys the style of a woman, including dress and mannerisms but is happy to go back to work as a lorry driver on a Monday morning.

A Trans-gender never wants to identify as the sex he/she was born into and operation or not, will pursue his/her identity on a full time basis.


Here Trans an TG are used interchangeably. We use TV for transvestite. I agree with your other post, from what I've seen it's the TVs who dress outlandishly while TGs dress simply as we CIS women do.


_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 6:08:03 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Trans= Transvestite: The practice of dressing and acting in a style or manner traditionally associated with the other sex.

Glad I asked, I thought you meant transsexual.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 6:38:38 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Like you LiveSpark, I've found that Trans tend to overdress when out and TG's if anything dress it down a lot. Of course, lots of trans call themselves female too.


What definitions are you using for Trans and TG's?


Trans= Transvestite: The practice of dressing and acting in a style or manner traditionally associated with the other sex.

TG= Trans-gender: The state of one's gender identity or gender expression not matching one's assigned sex.

A Transvestite enjoys the style of a woman, including dress and mannerisms but is happy to go back to work as a lorry driver on a Monday morning.

A Trans-gender never wants to identify as the sex he/she was born into and operation or not, will pursue his/her identity on a full time basis.

Interesting use of words Maria.
Most of us wouldn't use "Trans" for 'Transvestite', we would use 'TV' or CD/XD (cross-dresser).



Who is "we". I've hung out with transvestites who often refer to themselves as Trani or Trans and I know a good few trans-genders but have never heard them refer to themselves as Trans. I guess I just picked up that expression from the transvestites community. I've never questioned that term or thought of it as incorrect.

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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 6:46:44 AM   
LiveSpark


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Joined: 12/25/2014
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It's not a question of right or wrong. I put it down to cultural differences.

_____________________________

I've been here as MontrealPhoenix, zephyr and
TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 6:50:47 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
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From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Who is "we". I've hung out with transvestites who often refer to themselves as Trani or Trans and I know a good few trans-genders but have never heard them refer to themselves as Trans. I guess I just picked up that expression from the transvestites community. I've never questioned that term or thought of it as incorrect.


Maria, let this one go. We've had a weird "nit-pick-everything-to-death" tone on the boards lately. I understood you completely and do not need to play semantics games to see your point.

This topic has been so insulated it's retarded.

"I don't feel like a girl/boy", "I don't understand", "fuck that whinny bitch, I cannot relate so it's not a real issue".

Like LiveSpark said, we all know what the "feeling" is, most people just refuse to apply it outside the scope of the situation. When some Islamic asshole is lobbing off your head you get a clear picture of what it feels like to be different.

Jus sayin

P.S. come find me on Fet.

< Message edited by ExiledTyrant -- 1/6/2015 6:58:41 AM >


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(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 7:35:47 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
Thank you both LiveSpark and ExiledTyrant.

Funny but I go on two other forums that are presently speaking about this girl we are all speaking about here. One is a dog forum (I'm a fur baby lover ) and the other a political forum. Its really refreshing to read the huge amount of sympathy and understanding about this tragedy. Not a single person has mocked or ridiculed this girl. Not a single post has referred to her as a boy and yet on here, a site that is supposed to be more accepting and more liberating we have an op who uses this girls as an example to discuss how trivial and unimportant our sexuality is.

From what I wrote, its clear to anyone who bothers to read my words that I fully support girls like her and their choice to take what must be a very frightening journey. I think that's enough.

I'll be in touch on the other side ET

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My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 60
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