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RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 7:48:57 AM

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That has been my experience as well Maria. Just goes to show that just because we are kinky doesn't mean we are more tolerant. It's a shame because the bottom line is that we are all human, some are just closed-minded regardless of whether they are kinky or not. Personally I chose the path of listening and trying to understand.

I never doubted for a second that you support TGs. It's clear to me from your posts that you do.

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(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 7:58:18 AM

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Thank you both LiveSpark and ExiledTyrant.

Funny but I go on two other forums that are presently speaking about this girl we are all speaking about here. One is a dog forum (I'm a fur baby lover ) and the other a political forum. Its really refreshing to read the huge amount of sympathy and understanding about this tragedy. Not a single person has mocked or ridiculed this girl. Not a single post has referred to her as a boy and yet on here, a site that is supposed to be more accepting and more liberating we have an op who uses this girls as an example to discuss how trivial and unimportant our sexuality is.

From what I wrote, its clear to anyone who bothers to read my words that I fully support girls like her and their choice to take what must be a very frightening journey. I think that's enough.

I'll be in touch on the other side ET

It is a sad situation, the replies and positions taken on this issue, but the up side is it gives me insight into the people that post. For me it is easy to extend some empathy towards most anyone... I've had a very interesting life and have been in some very good situations, and some very bad ones. So my ability to relate and extend empathy (not that feigned sympathy crap) is often genuine. Nevertheless when something like this comes along it offers me the opportunity to "cull" the herd of people that I do not want to know, and establish a deeper connection with those I do want to know and can trust with glimpses into my private life.

Jus sayin

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(in reply to MariaB)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 8:14:42 AM

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Joined: 12/25/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Thank you both LiveSpark and ExiledTyrant.

Funny but I go on two other forums that are presently speaking about this girl we are all speaking about here. One is a dog forum (I'm a fur baby lover ) and the other a political forum. Its really refreshing to read the huge amount of sympathy and understanding about this tragedy. Not a single person has mocked or ridiculed this girl. Not a single post has referred to her as a boy and yet on here, a site that is supposed to be more accepting and more liberating we have an op who uses this girls as an example to discuss how trivial and unimportant our sexuality is.

From what I wrote, its clear to anyone who bothers to read my words that I fully support girls like her and their choice to take what must be a very frightening journey. I think that's enough.

I'll be in touch on the other side ET

It is a sad situation, the replies and positions taken on this issue, but the up side is it gives me insight into the people that post. For me it is easy to extend some empathy towards most anyone... I've had a very interesting life and have been in some very good situations, and some very bad ones. So my ability to relate and extend empathy (not that feigned sympathy crap) is often genuine. Nevertheless when something like this comes along it offers me the opportunity to "cull" the herd of people that I do not want to know, and establish a deeper connection with those I do want to know and can trust with glimpses into my private life.

Jus sayin

I agree, this is an excellent opportunity to find out who I want to know better/keep in touch with and who I'd just as soon not. Sadly this thread has been a real eye opener, there are those I thought would be more sensitive who have shown they aren't. On the bright side there are those who have been which is good to see.

_____________________________

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TheFireWithinMe.

I also have the sarcasm gene which is NOT to be taken seriously.

If you fall I'll always be there to catch you ~ Floor

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/6/2015 10:42:08 PM

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From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead?

Empathy requires understanding, without understanding the best we can do is sympathy and tolerance.

Respectfully I'll have to agree to disagree with you. I feel that sympathy and tolerance both require a degree of understanding as well.

But even if we lay aside differences of opinion as far as definitions of terms go, based on the way that the OP was written and the follow up responses to what others have had to say...the train to sympathy and tolerance derailed before it even left the station

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 4:42:44 AM

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Joined: 11/10/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
How about a little compassion and maybe a little empathy instead?

Empathy requires understanding, without understanding the best we can do is sympathy and tolerance.

Respectfully I'll have to agree to disagree with you. I feel that sympathy and tolerance both require a degree of understanding as well.

But even if we lay aside differences of opinion as far as definitions of terms go, based on the way that the OP was written and the follow up responses to what others have had to say...the train to sympathy and tolerance derailed before it even left the station

I have to agree with SeekingTrinity. From what I know, empathy is understanding and SHARING the feelings of another. Sympathy is understanding the feelings. I'm not sure tolerance needs understanding, except to understand that people all feel/believe/react differently.

And the OP has chosen repeatedly to not show tolerance or sympathy, while making it clear that empathy would be impossible.

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RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 8:13:39 AM

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From: Austin Texas
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Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

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RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 8:36:05 AM

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Joined: 4/12/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

< Message edited by TransFat -- 1/7/2015 8:37:55 AM >

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 8:40:45 AM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to TransFat)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 9:12:25 AM

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

Someone had to do it.

_____________________________

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 10:38:09 AM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

Someone had to do it.

I have empathy for ignorant people, for stupid people and for very bright people. My empathy doesn't come with rules, it just is. It takes very little for me to imagine trying to live in willful ignorance out of fear or not being able to understand something.

That doesn't mean I think it is okay, but I do understand that sort of POV. How could I not empathize with someone who is limited be those self-imposed limits or otherwise imposed?

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(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 10:56:07 AM

Posts: 20
Joined: 4/12/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

I don't see why you felt the need to get defensive there... I was merely adding to your comment regarding the OP. My statement wasn't directed towards, or about your character at all.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 11:32:50 AM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

I don't see why you felt the need to get defensive there... I was merely adding to your comment regarding the OP. My statement wasn't directed towards, or about your character at all.

I was amused by your first post, not defensive. I thought it was genuinely funny that you felt you had to explain that 'around here we call that ignorance' as your opening salvo to the board.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to TransFat)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 11:36:15 AM

Posts: 20
Joined: 4/12/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

I don't see why you felt the need to get defensive there... I was merely adding to your comment regarding the OP. My statement wasn't directed towards, or about your character at all.

I was amused by your first post, not defensive. I thought it was genuinely funny that you felt you had to explain that 'around here we call that ignorance' as your opening salvo to the board.

Perhaps I misread; to me it seemed like you were being sarcastic/snarky. Please forgive me if I'm wrong here but it really did seem to be dripping with the stuff.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 11:37:45 AM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Oddly I do have some empathy toward the OP, I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not understand something others seem to have no trouble getting.

It strikes me more like the OP thinks they understand but don't and refuses to actually try to understand. Around here we call that ignorance.

Gosh thanks so much for using your first post to explain things to me. :)

I don't see why you felt the need to get defensive there... I was merely adding to your comment regarding the OP. My statement wasn't directed towards, or about your character at all.

I was amused by your first post, not defensive. I thought it was genuinely funny that you felt you had to explain that 'around here we call that ignorance' as your opening salvo to the board.

Perhaps I misread; to me it seemed like you were being sarcastic/snarky. Please forgive me if I'm wrong here but it really did seem to be dripping with the stuff.

You're right in that I was being sarcastic to you and for that I apologize. I'm not usually bitchy, honest.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to TransFat)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 11:48:02 AM

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
I have to agree with SeekingTrinity. From what I know, empathy is understanding and SHARING the feelings of another. Sympathy is understanding the feelings. I'm not sure tolerance needs understanding, except to understand that people all feel/believe/react differently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Empathy_vs_Sympathy
Empathy is the ability to mutually experience the thoughts, emotions, and direct experience of others. It goes beyond sympathy, which is a feeling of care and understanding for the suffering of others. Both words have similar usage but differ in their emotional meaning.

I have no idea how that teenager felt, I've never felt so harassed nor needed external validation to the point of contemplating whether death was preferable to life. So I cannot possibly empathize with someone in that situation, the best I can do is look at the attachment I have to my life and recognize that it must take something horrible to choose to give life up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
And the OP has chosen repeatedly to not show tolerance or sympathy, while making it clear that empathy would be impossible.

In the OP she did said that she's uncomfortable with TG but thinks that they should have the same rights as everyone else which is what tolerance looks like.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 11:57:47 AM

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just my 20 cents worth.

There is "not understanding," there is "not knowing", then there is" knowing and not wanting to understand" and there is wilful ignorance.
imagine everyone you have ever known say that despite what you believe, you are a man. You can only have male feelings, you can only stand up when you pee, you can only use mens rooms, you can only be seen AS a male by everyone you know or meet.
you are expected to live your day by someone elses rules.
How would you prove you are a female, especially when you have the physical appearance of a man, why wouldnt it upset you.
Ive had three teenagers Ive been a teenager, and I remember the agony of teenagers.
this poor kid and millions of others have REAL problems made worse by bullying, hate and wilful ignorance.
Time to look and digest facts that go into the REAL issues, not brush it off with a personal opinion that is almost as bad as totally ignoring the issues that are faced by millions of teens, wether trans/gay/bi/ or hetero.

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(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 12:08:11 PM

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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

just my 20 cents worth.

There is "not understanding," there is "not knowing", then there is" knowing and not wanting to understand" and there is wilful ignorance.
imagine everyone you have ever known say that despite what you believe, you are a man. You can only have male feelings, you can only stand up when you pee, you can only use mens rooms, you can only be seen AS a male by everyone you know or meet.
you are expected to live your day by someone elses rules.
How would you prove you are a female, especially when you have the physical appearance of a man, why wouldnt it upset you.
Ive had three teenagers Ive been a teenager, and I remember the agony of teenagers.
this poor kid and millions of others have REAL problems made worse by bullying, hate and wilful ignorance.
Time to look and digest facts that go into the REAL issues, not brush it off with a personal opinion that is almost as bad as totally ignoring the issues that are faced by millions of teens, wether trans/gay/bi/ or hetero.

As I said earlier I don't agree with the OP or that view, I just can understand why/how people refuse to see things that shake up their world. I empathize with that without engaging in it myself.

I can empathize with pretty much anyone in any situation, some say it is a fault of mine while others say it is my greatest asset.

Personally I find the story of this girl horrifying, being told her entire life that she is wrong for feeling wrong. Her last Tumblr post was taken down, her obituary mentioned that she was a boy not a girl. That lack of support makes my heart hurt for her. I also understand why she took her own life although I really really wish she could have waited this out, I wish she'd given herself time to grow up and move away from her parents.

I've read too many stories about very young children trying to damage their genitals because they feel wrong. Too many stories of young people who feel they've nowhere to turn, no one to trust and no one who really understands. Part of that IMO is the nature of being a teenager, it is nearly impossible to believe an adult who says "Hey I've been there, I know how you feel." Part of it is society, while gay rights have made leaps and bounds there is still so much that is not widely accepted. Being transgender is one of those things.

My hope is that I will see the day when gender identity doesn't matter.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 12:24:36 PM

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Status: offline

Hey Camillle, :) I was responding to the OP, not you, my bad, sorry, until just now hadnt read the full thread.
I dont disagree with you regarding empathy, I have the same "talent/curse" * i really do*
Ive worked with suicide/rape/homeless/kids and adults for numerous years both full time and part time and volunteer. I cant tell you how many different stories and heartache and tragic endings Ive seen heard and talked to.
My own teenage years were filled with unpleasant shit, of varying ugliness and bullying..I would never attempt to say this girls problems as teenage drama...or belittle the emotions anyone has over their gender identity, or their adult sexual partner choice/feelings.

I Hope Im there with you :) celebrating

_____________________________

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 1:16:46 PM

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Joined: 4/12/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

You're right in that I was being sarcastic to you and for that I apologize. I'm not usually bitchy, honest.

Ah well, thanks for the warm welcome/sanity check then.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Transgender Teen's Suicide - 1/7/2015 1:39:30 PM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TransFat

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

You're right in that I was being sarcastic to you and for that I apologize. I'm not usually bitchy, honest.

Ah well, thanks for the warm welcome/sanity check then.

I really am sorry, I don't do well with cold weather and it has effected my mood. I swear I'm not normally hostile to new posters!

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to TransFat)

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