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RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 6:55:45 AM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

A parking space,an argument ,a handgun at the ready....what a senseless,avoidable tragedy.
I wonder would it have such finality if the asshole was walking around strapped ?
Mod 3 thinks we might have too many gun threads......I'm not sure we have enough

You say that like you think more gun threads on this forum are going to change anything.

I do everything I can,donate what money I can,volunteer for the candidates I agree with and argue here.
I don't have power nor influence,I'm just one voice......and I lend that one voice to the causes I believe in whenever and wherever I can.
I find that a lot more satisfying than sitting around telling other people how and on what they should talk about .
You are free to do the same,other than that I can't help you with your issues.
Bless your heart and have a nice day

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 7:00:32 AM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Back to the thread again.....it doesn't appear that this was a sudden,lone argument about a parking space.
This was a long simmering feud between neighbors it seems.
So the "spur of the moment" defense is going to be hard to prove.
It is looking like this was a case of one of those responsible legal gun owners deciding he had had enough over a parking spot.....grabbed his legal handgun and decided he was going to solve his problem with the tool at hand.
Guns don't kill people,responsible gun owners with guns apparently do though.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 7:21:21 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Back to the thread again.....it doesn't appear that this was a sudden,lone argument about a parking space.
This was a long simmering feud between neighbors it seems.
So the "spur of the moment" defense is going to be hard to prove.
It is looking like this was a case of one of those responsible legal gun owners deciding he had had enough over a parking spot.....grabbed his legal handgun and decided he was going to solve his problem with the tool at hand.
Guns don't kill people,responsible gun owners with guns apparently do though.

This seems to be premeditated, the execution style killings alone would tell you that.
NOBODY BUT YOU thinks he would be included among responsible gun owners.
But then you love to take a anti-religious socialist and pretend he is just one of the responsible gun owners.
It was mentioned in the Post article that there may well be mental health issues (big surprise there) and once again they didn't enter it into the background database. I have said repeatedly that that information needs to be entered. It would be one more case where they, to use your terminology, care more about privacy rights than about people lives, when will the butchers bill get high enough for them to enter this information in the database?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 7:35:50 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

The problem with your standpoint Bama is that if after the event, the person is deemed to have any sort of deficiency, they are classified as having possible mental health problems and thus is no longer a 'responsible' gun owner.
The point being that up until the event, they were considered 'normal' (whatever that is) and something made them become unhinged.

This is the very point that many anti-gun posters are making.
There are far too many 'normal until they snapped' people doing stupid things and killing people.
That doesn't count the misfits, robbers, villains, suicides, and accidents that happen every year.
This is a classic case of if they didn't have guns, there wouldn't have been deaths.
Probably a damned good argument and an altercation, yes; but unlikely to have been deaths as a result.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 7:50:20 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The problem with your standpoint Bama is that if after the event, the person is deemed to have any sort of deficiency, they are classified as having possible mental health problems and thus is no longer a 'responsible' gun owner.
The point being that up until the event, they were considered 'normal' (whatever that is) and something made them become unhinged.

This is the very point that many anti-gun posters are making.
There are far too many 'normal until they snapped' people doing stupid things and killing people.
That doesn't count the misfits, robbers, villains, suicides, and accidents that happen every year.
This is a classic case of if they didn't have guns, there wouldn't have been deaths.
Probably a damned good argument and an altercation, yes; but unlikely to have been deaths as a result.

No the point is that if there were already mental health issues and that had been in the data base then he could have been prevented from having a firearm. You are living proof that "responsible" people don't obey weapons laws. Tell OJs victims that they would have lived if OJ didn't have a gun, oh wait, he didn't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 7:53:47 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

But they were UNAWARE of such issues until something happened!!
Does everyone in the US get a full health check every week??
I doubt that many have a full health check every few years.
And that fact that someone could be fine one day and snap the next is the very reason that guns are dangerous - even in the hands of so-called 'responsible' owners.

And that is happening all too often across the US.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:00:39 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But they were UNAWARE of such issues until something happened!!
Does everyone in the US get a full health check every week??
I doubt that many have a full health check every few years.
And that fact that someone could be fine one day and snap the next is the very reason that guns are dangerous - even in the hands of so-called 'responsible' owners.

And that is happening all too often across the US.

If he was under care and deemed dangerous they would not have been UNAWARE if it had been entered as it should have been.
But then as you have made clear, weapons restrictions are only for peasants and Americans, not for "reasonable" people like you. How can you ask us to follows your laws when you don't?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:02:16 AM

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

I guess the question I have that is not being answered anywhere...

...What was the issue over the parking spot exactly?

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:10:42 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I guess the question I have that is not being answered anywhere...

...What was the issue over the parking spot exactly?

What difference, at this point, does it make?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:22:17 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But they were UNAWARE of such issues until something happened!!
Does everyone in the US get a full health check every week??
I doubt that many have a full health check every few years.
And that fact that someone could be fine one day and snap the next is the very reason that guns are dangerous - even in the hands of so-called 'responsible' owners.

And that is happening all too often across the US.

If he was under care and deemed dangerous they would not have been UNAWARE if it had been entered as it should have been.
But then as you have made clear, weapons restrictions are only for peasants and Americans, not for "reasonable" people like you. How can you ask us to follows your laws when you don't?

Ummm..... because I don't kill people?? And I've only ever done it once with known assailants?
Not that you take any notice of that because you drag it up every fucking time we have these discussions!
And that our gun deaths are a mere fraction of yours?

The plain fact is, nobody knows when someone is going to snap and become a member of that elite 'mental health issue' group until it happens.
And therein lies the fundamental problem in the US.
You can't see it because you want your guns.
Typical redneck "I can have guns, I will have guns, and you can't take them away from me" mentality.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:37:31 AM

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I guess the question I have that is not being answered anywhere...

...What was the issue over the parking spot exactly?

What difference, at this point, does it make?

Makes all the difference. That you cant understand that, shows how much you have sat and thought about the issue.

Did they have an arrangement? Did one of them have the spot based on proximity to living spot? Did someone park somewhere by accident? Because mose civilized people try to work out problems in a civil manner. Not resort to shooting people dead.

Why is it you cant understand this stuff?

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:41:36 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But they were UNAWARE of such issues until something happened!!
Does everyone in the US get a full health check every week??
I doubt that many have a full health check every few years.
And that fact that someone could be fine one day and snap the next is the very reason that guns are dangerous - even in the hands of so-called 'responsible' owners.

And that is happening all too often across the US.

If he was under care and deemed dangerous they would not have been UNAWARE if it had been entered as it should have been.
But then as you have made clear, weapons restrictions are only for peasants and Americans, not for "reasonable" people like you. How can you ask us to follows your laws when you don't?

Ummm..... because I don't kill people?? And I've only ever done it once with known assailants?
Not that you take any notice of that because you drag it up every fucking time we have these discussions!
And that our gun deaths are a mere fraction of yours?

The plain fact is, nobody knows when someone is going to snap and become a member of that elite 'mental health issue' group until it happens.
And therein lies the fundamental problem in the US.
You can't see it because you want your guns.
Typical redneck "I can have guns, I will have guns, and you can't take them away from me" mentality.

You disregard the law, yet you tell us to follow the law you disregard.
You, the last time you admitted it said you still keep it next to your door in case you need it.
I keep bringing it up because your hypocrisy is relevant to your credibility.
The law is great, except when you decide otherwise, but you insist that we should follow it.
Well I do so you have forfeited any pretense of being able to preach to me.
I am not a redneck, but you are clearly an elitist who has twisted things to fit your view ever since you declared that nobody in the US can legally drive over 40.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:47:20 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I guess the question I have that is not being answered anywhere...

...What was the issue over the parking spot exactly?

What difference, at this point, does it make?

Makes all the difference. That you cant understand that, shows how much you have sat and thought about the issue.

Did they have an arrangement? Did one of them have the spot based on proximity to living spot? Did someone park somewhere by accident? Because mose civilized people try to work out problems in a civil manner. Not resort to shooting people dead.

Why is it you cant understand this stuff?

You don't understand, as long as they weren't trying to park on him (not his car on him) it becomes violence over nothing. I don't understand why they hadn't already called the police on him as he had threatened them before, using his firearm in an effort to intimidate them. This, by the way could have cost him the right to have the firearm.
Reasonable people don't shoot people over a parking space, or hack them up with a knife, resort to violence period.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:49:45 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You disregard the law, yet you tell us to follow the law you disregard.
You, the last time you admitted it said you still keep it next to your door in case you need it.

And you have never ever broken any law??
I did, ONCE, and with good reason; and it wasn't a gun!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I keep bringing it up because your hypocrisy is relevant to your credibility.
The law is great, except when you decide otherwise, but you insist that we should follow it.

And I'll ask again... have you ever broken a law, any law??
Unless you can vow that you have never ever broken any law in your life: pot meet kettle!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Well I do so you have forfeited any pretense of being able to preach to me.

Really? With some of the crap bullshit you come out with, I'd say you are much worse than I will ever be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am not a redneck, but you are clearly an elitist who has twisted things to fit your view ever since you declared that nobody in the US can legally drive over 40.

Show me where I said that - because I didn't.
So who's twisting who's words now??

What I actually said was that the people I was with never drove over 40mph and that I never came across any road where the limit went above 55.
If you're gonna cast your inane net, at least try to get it right!

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:52:08 AM

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Reasonable people don't shoot people over a parking space, or hack them up with a knife, resort to violence period.

I agree with that.
Only a nutter resorts to violence over something so piddly and insignificant.
And that is why guns in the populace is dangerous.
All too easy to draw your weapon and kill someone.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 8:53:10 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

But they were UNAWARE of such issues until something happened!!
Does everyone in the US get a full health check every week??
I doubt that many have a full health check every few years.
And that fact that someone could be fine one day and snap the next is the very reason that guns are dangerous - even in the hands of so-called 'responsible' owners.

And that is happening all too often across the US.

If he was under care and deemed dangerous they would not have been UNAWARE if it had been entered as it should have been.
But then as you have made clear, weapons restrictions are only for peasants and Americans, not for "reasonable" people like you. How can you ask us to follows your laws when you don't?

Ummm..... because I don't kill people?? And I've only ever done it once with known assailants?
Not that you take any notice of that because you drag it up every fucking time we have these discussions!
And that our gun deaths are a mere fraction of yours?

The plain fact is, nobody knows when someone is going to snap and become a member of that elite 'mental health issue' group until it happens.
And therein lies the fundamental problem in the US.
You can't see it because you want your guns.
Typical redneck "I can have guns, I will have guns, and you can't take them away from me" mentality.

And again, the question is "why should ANYONE give something up because of the nuts?

Do you want your car taken away?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/coroner-boy-6-dies-after-car-crashes-into-crowd/ar-BBgZrbe

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ferguson-protest-minneapolis-car-plows/

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/26/disgruntled-man-drives-into-crowd-pedestrians-outside-beijing-sports-stadium/

Hell, they KNEW this man was unstable...
http://news.yahoo.com/man-shouting-allahu-akbar-drives-crowd-france-injuring-211915875.html

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 9:11:30 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You disregard the law, yet you tell us to follow the law you disregard.
You, the last time you admitted it said you still keep it next to your door in case you need it.

And you have never ever broken any law??
I did, ONCE, and with good reason; and it wasn't a gun!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I keep bringing it up because your hypocrisy is relevant to your credibility.
The law is great, except when you decide otherwise, but you insist that we should follow it.

And I'll ask again... have you ever broken a law, any law??
Unless you can vow that you have never ever broken any law in your life: pot meet kettle!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Well I do so you have forfeited any pretense of being able to preach to me.

Really? With some of the crap bullshit you come out with, I'd say you are much worse than I will ever be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am not a redneck, but you are clearly an elitist who has twisted things to fit your view ever since you declared that nobody in the US can legally drive over 40.

Show me where I said that - because I didn't.
So who's twisting who's words now??

What I actually said was that the people I was with never drove over 40mph and that I never came across any road where the limit went above 55.
If you're gonna cast your inane net, at least try to get it right!

Then there was your stupid contention that American cops all want British gun laws, you may have met one or two but I have been around cops all my life and haven't met any yet.
It wasn't a gun, well la de da, it was a lethal weapon. I always obey weapons laws, and unlike you don't toss them aside when they don't suit me.
Unless they were in their 70's I don't even believe that they never drove over 40.
You speak from ignorance and arrogance, love your laws, it doesn't matter to me.
The big difference is I don't ask you to adopt our laws that I am comfortable with and you ask us to adopt your laws which you disregard if you, in your infinite wisdom, deem excessive.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 9:39:57 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Some of the things that are happening in this world went far beyond any comprehension a long while back, but the senseless violence just seems to be getting worse

I really do wonder if senseless violence is getting more prevalent...or... is it that the internet and media reaching all parts of this earth are just reporting it?

To answer my own question... I believe the day to day senseless murders for innumerable reasons has not changed much... in fact I believe they have been decreasing but it is reported more often.

But

I do believe the mostly innocent assault on the traditional ways of living of various societies, such as the Muslim society, by modern technologies in the western world has greatly increased the violence and tension world wide.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 9:42:41 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Some of the things that are happening in this world went far beyond any comprehension a long while back, but the senseless violence just seems to be getting worse

I really do wonder if senseless violence is getting more prevalent...or... is it that the internet and media reaching all parts of this earth are just reporting it?

To answer my own question... I believe the day to day senseless murders for innumerable reasons has not changed much... in fact I believe they have been decreasing but it is reported more often.

But

I do believe the mostly innocent assault on the traditional ways of living of various societies, such as the Muslim society, by modern technologies in the western world has greatly increased the violence and tension world wide.

Butch

I agree, since crime is dropping at an unprecedented rate, it is clearly more intense coverage, news networks have to fill that space with something.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Three Muslims shot - 2/12/2015 9:48:25 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Yep... but it is not bad that these things are reported as long and they are not sensationalized to the point where copycats wanting their day of fame try to top the last atrocity.

There is no doubt this tragedy needed to be reported and the reasons for it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

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