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ORIGINAL: JVoV

What's more important in the Middle East? Democracy or stability? And how can either exist without a government and military willing to keep them secure?

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

What's more important in the Middle East? Democracy or stability? And how can either exist without a government and military willing to keep them secure?

I could not answer your question - I think the most important thing is to learn from past mistakes and not add more new upon old; those mistakes I mean were made in 1919/20 when the Ottoman empire was sliced into nice little pieces by pencil strokes on a map
(remember what made IS popular at first was their promise to wipe those borders off the map)


all the states there are more or less artificial and unstable creations and have survived (and survive) by part-time suppression of minorities, denial of individual and collective rights and warfare against neighbours (being kept from collapsing by allying with whoever wanted them to exist for another while)


there is no easy way out of that mess, and democracy sounding so nice is just another word for minority supression - ask the Kurds and Armenians

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And anyone who proposes a permanent solution, such as working to make the childs' homeland a better place, is "swine"

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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And anyone who proposes a permanent solution, such as working to make the childs' homeland a better place, is "swine"

I would have thought that there's little disagreement about the fact that making the child's homeland a better place is the long-term solution. What makes you think otherwise, assuming you do?

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

second, and much more controversial, do the free countries of the world have any responsibility for intervening on the host country in question so as to prevent refugee crises from arising in the first place.

The irony is there was no migrant crisis in 2003 and the borders of Syria and IRAQ were secure. All that changed after Operation Iraqi Freedom. The idea behind tihe IRAQ invasion, thought up the by NEOCONS, is that regime change in IRAQ would add stability to the region. The stupidity and wrongheadedness of their thinking started with the insurrection (Dead Enders according to Cheney and Rumsfeldt) and is still roiling today.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: joether

Imagine if we sent conservatives and their politically elected 'servents' (or their kids) to war (rather than the rest of us)? We'd never see/hear so much as a peep from them about going to war....

Damn right. It's just a bleeding shame that everybody in the military is a progressive liberal. Those cowardly conservatives never risk their own asses! What can we do about that, joether? Got any ideas?

K.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The reaction of Europe's people (as opposed to Europe's politicians) to the tsunami of refugees flooding the continent has been heart warming.

While the politicians dithered and argued, the people of Europe have opened their hearts, their homes and homelands to welcome those fleeing war and disaster. It is inspirational to see the humanity of ordinary people asserting itself over the venal pompous and calculated posturing of politicians, rejecting racism and xenophobia instead acting generously and compassionately.

I dearly wish that I could say the same about Australians' response to refugees but our Govt here has implemented an inhumane regimen that demonises refugees and cynically punishes them for the 'crime' of arriving at our shores seeking refuge from wars that Australia has played a significant part in fomenting, all for short term political advantage. Our shame. Refugees seeking asylum have been used to bring out the worst in the Australian character.

The reaction in Europe has brought out one of the best aspects of the human character. Well done Europe.

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ORIGINAL: Sanit

After the Ottoman Empire declared jihad against the West, and lost their asses...

You (and other leftists) would prefer that they had won that war, and would also like to see their successor (ISIS) prevail in a similar endeavor

You are fucking well insane.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

A simpler question then.

Who is our enemy in Syria? The established government that uses chemical weapons on civilians, Syrian rebels that defy that rule of law, or ISIS who kill, rape, and plunder indiscriminately.

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ORIGINAL: blnymph

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ORIGINAL: Sanit

After the Ottoman Empire declared jihad against the West, and lost their asses...

You (and other leftists) would prefer that they had won that war, and would also like to see their successor (ISIS) prevail in a similar endeavor

You are fucking well insane.

my grandmother taught me not to talk back to a meschuggenen


and please please please, to the others: do the world a big favour: keep your nutcases at home where they belong, in a looney bin
the world has had already enough of those

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

A simpler question then.

Who is our enemy in Syria? The established government that uses chemical weapons on civilians, Syrian rebels that defy that rule of law, or ISIS who kill, rape, and plunder indiscriminately.

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ORIGINAL: blnymph
my grandmother taught me not to talk back to a meschuggenen

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

So knowing what we know, including how the US has been demonized for invading Iraq in the first place, and that there is always the possibility of an unknown rebel group waiting in the wings, exactly what are our options for Syria?

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"If we go back home, there will be other genocides against us. The only solution is that we have a region to ourselves, under international protection," she told AFP.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/48768523.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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via the UN: establishment of safe zones for civilians which can be supplied without having to use passages, airports asf in other states involved