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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 2:33:01 PM   
cloudboy


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Islamic State has killed many Syrians, but Assad’s forces have killed more

“For all the Islamic State’s horrendous brutality, we can’t forget that the Assad regime has been the main source of death and destruction in Syria since 2011,” said Emile Hokayem, a Middle East analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies. “You can’t solve the conflict unless you find a way to address this, which the world hasn’t yet.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/islamic-state-has-killed-many-syrians-but-assads-forces-have-killed-even-more/2015/09/05/b8150d0c-4d85-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html

(in reply to JVoV)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 2:43:10 PM   
blnymph


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body counting is of course the most urgent matter now


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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 4:08:48 PM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

via the UN: establishment of safe zones for civilians which can be supplied without having to use passages, airports asf in other states involved


God yes. You'd have thought that that, at least, would be practicable.


seriously, for now
for instance: there are 2 British military bases on Cyprus, including Akrotiri airfield
I am neither familiar with its specifications, or international treaties, regarding its usability, but planes from there would reach Syria within maybe about an hour and would not have to pass any other country's airspace

I did not hear anything like PM Cameron offering a kind of regular airlift to and from Akrotiri to Syria for supply or whatever else purposes these days but I am sure he would have IF it was used

so I d like to ask (him) if it could be or why it is not used to help in this situation


< Message edited by blnymph -- 9/5/2015 4:10:34 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 4:17:27 PM   
Sanity


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quote:


The horrific results of Obama’s failure in Syria

One little boy in a red T-shirt, lying face down, drowned, on a Turkish beach, is a tragedy. More than 200,000 dead in Syria, 4 million fleeing refugees and 7.6 million displaced from their homes are statistics. But they represent a collective failure of massive proportions.

For four years, the Obama administration has engaged in what Frederic Hof, former special adviser for transition in Syria, calls a “pantomime of outrage.” Four years of strongly worded protests, and urgent meetings and calls for negotiation — the whole drama a sickening substitute for useful action. People talking and talking to drown out the voice of their own conscience. And blaming. In 2013, President Obama lectured the U.N. Security Council for having “demonstrated no inclination to act at all.” Psychological projection on a global stage.
Always there is Obama’s weary realism. “It’s not the job of the president of the United States to solve every problem in the Middle East.” We must be “modest in our belief that we can remedy every evil.”

But we are not dealing here with every problem or every evil; rather a discrete and unique set of circumstances: The largest humanitarian failure of the Obama era is also its largest strategic failure.

At some point, being “modest” becomes the same thing as being inured to atrocities. President Bashar al-Assad’s helicopters continue to drop “barrel bombs” filled with shrapnel and chlorine. In recent attacks on the town of Marea, Islamic State forces have used skin-blistering mustard gas and deployed, over a few days, perhaps 50 suicide bombers. We have seen starvation sieges, and kidnappings, and beheadings, and more than 10,000 dead children.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has changed her country’s asylum rules to welcome every Syrian refugee who arrives. Syrians have taken to calling her “Mama Merkel, Mother of the Outcasts.” I wonder what they call the U.S. president.

At many points during the past four years, even relatively small actions might have reduced the pace of civilian casualties in Syria. How hard would it have been to destroy the helicopters dropping barrel bombs on neighborhoods? A number of options well short of major intervention might have reduced the regime’s destructive power and/or strengthened the capabilities of more responsible forces. All were untaken.

This was not some humanitarian problem distant from the center of U.S. interests. It was a crisis at the heart of the Middle East that produced a vacuum of sovereignty that has attracted and empowered some of the worst people in the world. Inaction was a conscious, determined choice on the part of the Obama White House. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and CIA Director David Petraeus advocated arming favorable proxies. Sunni friends and allies in the region asked, then begged, for U.S. leadership. All were overruled or ignored.

In the process, Syria has become the graveyard of U.S. credibility. The chemical weapons “red line.” “The tide of war is receding.” “Don’t do stupid [stuff].” These are global punch lines. “The analogy we use around here sometimes,” said Obama of the Islamic State, “and I think is accurate, is if a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms, that doesn’t make them Kobe Bryant.” Now the goal to “degrade and destroy” the Islamic State looks unachievable with the current strategy and resources. “The time has come for President Assad to step aside,” said Obama in 2011. Yet Assad will likely outlast Obama in power.

What explains Obama’s high tolerance for humiliation and mass atrocities in Syria? The Syrian regime is Iran’s proxy, propped up by billions of dollars each year. And Obama wanted nothing to interfere with the prospects for a nuclear deal with Iran. He was, as Hof has said, “reluctant to offend the Iranians at this critical juncture.” So the effective concession of Syria as an Iranian zone of influence is just one more cost of the president’s legacy nuclear agreement.

Never mind that Iran will now have tens of billions of unfrozen assets to strengthen Assad’s struggling military. And never mind that Assad’s atrocities are one of the main recruiting tools for the Islamic State and other Sunni radicals. All of which is likely to extend a war that no one can win, which has incubated regional and global threats — and thrown a small body in a red T-shirt against a distant shore.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-horrific-results-of-obamas-strategy-in-syria/2015/09/03/c16c117a-526c-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html


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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:24:18 PM   
cloudboy


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What's your plan, Sherlock? O, that's right, you never have one. Maybe we should agree to accept 800,000 migrant refugees as Germany is about to do? Do you think that might help solve the problem?

Let me guess, you want the US at war with ISIS, IRAN, and Syria all at the same time. Is that your plan? While we're at it, we can start deporting all the undocumented residents in the USA and watch our GDP and economy go down the toilet again.

Note: Everyone -- the reply will be a non answer to ^^^^ all of the following. Yes, I've been baited by the lowest troll with the stupidest posting record ever recorded on the CMMB. But once his non-answer is up --- I'll just let it stand pathetically on its own as he declares a self-victory in the "debate."

Note II: Went down this road a while back with TheHeretic, otherwise known as Sanity lite, and he had no plan or recommendation either.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/5/2015 5:35:48 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:41:57 PM   
dcnovice


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Saw this on FB and loved it. Not sure if it belongs in the Kim Davis thread or here. Went with here, since this one is more active.

Emphases mine.

I’m going to break my own rule to answer this question, which came to me for the fourth time this am:

You’ve been silent about Trump and Kim Davis. Are you going to weigh in?

No. This might sound harsh, so be it- I’ll apologize later. If you are a person spending any minutes discussing your “faith-based anti-gay marriage” stance while terrified babies are slipping out of their desperate parents’ arms and into churning, deep, dark waters never to be seen again . . . well, you’re looking at the reason the world has become less and less interested in your “faith based anything.”

Entering into relief work with the refugees = hard. Complaining about gay people getting married= easy. Stop choosing the easy thing and pretending that “defending God” is your cross to bear. God didn’t ask you to defend God. God is bigger than you and doesn’t need your protection. But God’s CHILDREN DO NEED YOUR PROTECTION. God’s children are dying for the hope of safety for their families. Shift your energy to them. Let us all quit acting like we have anything to do with the fact that we were lucky enough to have been born on third base, while millions are starving outside the stadium. Why are some Christians so obsessed with "saving" people until there are actually people who need saving? I would like to suggest that every Christian choose a faith [tenet] that requires HER family to change and to act and to sacrifice instead of somebody else’s.

So no- you won’t see me discussing gay marriage for the same reason you won’t see me discussing the pros and cons of re-instituting separate water fountains for black and white people. Because it would be insane. We’re done with that. The battle is won. I’m not going spend my time in museums talking to people hanging on to the bad old days by their fingernails.

And about Trump? NO. Not my circus- not my monkees. These are serious times and they call for serious people.

The two most repeated phrases in the Bible are FEAR NOT. REMEMBER. If any of your faith leaders is fear mongering, telling you to build walls instead tearing them down, instead of scaling them to feed hungry people, encouraging any sort of us vs. them mentality…THINK HARD. The Gospel says: Do not be afraid. Re-member. Re-member is the opposite of dis-member. When we shut our doors to our own family: when we are afraid of each other - we are dismembered. The kingdom of God comes when we treat each other like KIN. Like family. When we RE-MEMBER.

Fear not. Remember.

G

P.S. Guess who else were penniless refugees fleeing a dangerous homeland, trying to find safety and welcome on foreign soil? Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.


_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:42:18 PM   
blnymph


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well it would help to take a few/considerably more than within the past days/weeks/months - whatever country

6000 arrived here at Munich central station today (not mentioning those that came yesterday, and the days before), about 2000 at the austrian border (due tomorrow or Monday), another 2000+ still in the basement of Budapest Keleti train station and in hungarian camps, (probably arriving next week), an estimated 4000-5000 somewhere in macedonia or serbia south of the hungarian border (maybe due in the week after next), several 10000s stuck in greece and italy

kick your politicians' butts - this is URGENT because these things happen right now



(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:47:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

seriously, for now
for instance: there are 2 British military bases on Cyprus, including Akrotiri airfield
I am neither familiar with its specifications, or international treaties, regarding its usability, but planes from there would reach Syria within maybe about an hour and would not have to pass any other country's airspace

I did not hear anything like PM Cameron offering a kind of regular airlift to and from Akrotiri to Syria for supply or whatever else purposes these days but I am sure he would have IF it was used

so I d like to ask (him) if it could be or why it is not used to help in this situation


That's looking too far ahead for Cameron, blnymph. Seriously, the big turnaround has only happened here in the last *few days*. Up to just a couple of days ago the main government rhetoric was in terms of these 'undesirables forcing their way into our country'. Cameron and the rest of the Cabinet are no doubt still reeling at the realisation that they now have to act sympathetic to refugees rather than just slate them. Practicalities of how to help them - they won't be on that wavelength yet.


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(in reply to blnymph)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:48:31 PM   
cloudboy


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That is well said. In terms of choosing threads, I think you chose wisely. The breakdown between difficult and easy was insightful. Critics like to Blame the Obama Administration for Syria, but those folks tend to be nothing better than hecklers, for they have no viable alternatives to suggest.

Today I was wondering, is it as simple as picking a side? The only capable side seems to be Asad, IRAN, and the Russians. That's not exactly the Axis of Humanity and Justice. But, is it better that Chaos, feckless rebels, and ISIS?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/5/2015 5:50:42 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 5:50:39 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What's your plan, Sherlock? O, that's right, you never have one. Maybe we should agree to accept 800,000 migrant refugees as Germany is about to do? Do you think that might help solve the problem?

Let me guess, you want the US at war with ISIS, IRAN, and Syria all at the same time. Is that your plan? While we're at it, we can start deporting all the undocumented residents in the USA and watch our GDP and economy go down the toilet again.

Note: Everyone -- the reply will be a non answer to ^^^^ all of the following. Yes, I've been baited by the lowest troll with the stupidest posting record ever recorded on the CMMB. But once his non-answer is up --- I'll just let it stand pathetically on its own as he declares a self-victory in the "debate."

Note II: Went down this road a while back with TheHeretic, otherwise known as Sanity lite, and he had no plan or recommendation either.


Ive discussed solutions, trollboy

You are too blinded by a combination of things to acknowledge that reality. Stupidity, ignorance, ideology, among others...

Something else you fail to understand is this isnt the place where such things are fixed. I am not in charge of the Middle East... (Derp). This is only a place to discuss such things. It was called "casual banter" until it was moved, but its still just casual banter

Breaking your brain fart down a little further, your demanding others fix president goofballs' fuck ups here on collarchat is stupidity on a level only matched by him. Well, him and Hillary, who also had a hand in fabricating this mess

(Welcome to Obamas Arab Spring motherfucker)


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(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 6:09:57 PM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:


... I am not in charge of the Middle East...



In all the misery this indeed is a comfort

nobody could ever want that

< Message edited by blnymph -- 9/5/2015 6:15:02 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 6:22:58 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:


... I am not in charge of the Middle East...



In all the misery this indeed is a comfort

nobody could ever want that


What about your crazy grandmother though

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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 7:09:00 PM   
blnymph


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does anyone know a cure for narratophilia?

(certainly not of major importance compared to other miseries)

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 7:45:03 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

does anyone know a cure for narratophilia?

Yep. Three simple words: Do. Not. Engage.

Try this instead:

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 8:06:02 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

does anyone know a cure for narratophilia?

Yep. Three simple words: Do. Not. Engage.

Try this instead:


PLEASE Brer Idjits...

Dont throw me in the ignore patch

ANYTHING but that

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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 8:17:13 PM   
kdsub


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cloudboy in all sincerity what would you do to alleviate the suffering? It is such a complicated political mess with no good side to stand behind that I can see. Do you think it wise to intervene militarily?... do you think we should pick a side and supply them with training and weapons and air support? do you think we should just stay out of it period and not supply anyone who may in the future turn those weapons on us?

What should be done with refugees in these tough economic times when many European countries are having problems with the immigrants they already have... What are your ideas... I'm afraid I have none but i would like to hear yours.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/5/2015 8:18:55 PM >


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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/5/2015 9:04:19 PM   
cloudboy


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The problem is you have to pick a side. There is much instability and animosity in the region. Throwing tomatoes at the current US administration is an empty gesture.

See post #69.

For the Record I was never for the IRAQ invasion, and when the US pulled Saddam H. out of hole in the ground (that's where he was hiding, something like the underground fort I built as kid) I knew we'd be lied to about the "IRAQ Threat." The whole region is worse off right now b/c of US involvement there.

Europe and the Gulf States should take some kind lead, IMO. -- Clearly, that has not happened.

Footnote: Someone on this thread is demented -- but I won't name names......

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/5/2015 9:05:09 PM >

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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/6/2015 1:03:38 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


What should be done with refugees in these tough economic times when many European countries are having problems with the immigrants they already have... What are your ideas... I'm afraid I have none but i would like to hear yours.

Butch


Many European countries aren't having problems with immigrants.

What you have is a few idiots marching round the streets in say Germany thinking it's 1933.

To be fair, there are people in this country who do not want to 'take in' more people.

Their argument goes that we have enough people already here who need help, which is true.

But, it doesn't account for the fact most people's wages go on luxuries, and then some; and so the capacity to help people already here and a few more is there, perhaps the will isn't.

I don't see why we can't do without a few extras that we don't need anyway.

But, as DCNovice posted, plenty of people just aren't charitable and in my opinion they're lost to the world of Consumerism. I suppose that's democracy: if people want to buy and sell things they don't need then charity shouldn't be forced upon them.



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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/6/2015 1:26:35 AM   
JVoV


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Ideally, these refugees would only be in host countries temporarily, until peace can be restored in their homeland.

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RE: Heartbreaking -- Drowned Syrian Boy -- Whole Family... - 9/6/2015 3:20:47 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Footnote: Someone on this thread is demented -- but I won't name names......


Probably explains why you and all of your little troll friends obsess over me so much

/sarcasm



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)
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