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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 11:32:16 AM

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Meatcleaver, back when you were a kid it was rarely diagnosed. I had asthma I am pretty sure, it was never diagnosed. My sister was diagnosed with asthma also as an adult and she probably had it as a kid too, and she never smoked. When kids got a little wheezy no one connected it to asthma as long as they didn't pass out and turn blue. Now they do diagnose it more frequently. I am almost positive that when you were a kid parents didn't rush off to the doctor every time a kid had a little cough, they address these things nowadays.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 11:35:33 AM

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Again, completely subjective which is worse.

But then I tend to believe both are as bad as each other. Neither is better. I dislike second hand smoke. I dislike car fumes. I dislike the damage caused by rubber and other polutants. I dislike non*typo edit) enviromental bleaches and poisons. Saying car pollution is worse, is a cop out. If you are a smoker, deal with the fact your effecting others in a positive way, instead of shifting the blame to make yourself 'feel' better.

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 7/19/2006 11:38:12 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 11:37:14 AM

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darkinshadows... I also dislike all those things and I would add cheap perfume, which gives me a headache. Many people are sensitive to Lady Stetson for example...

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 11:42:18 AM

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I'm going to pour myself a whiskey and light a cigar and maybe sit on the balcony and watch my other vice walk by below.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 12:02:28 PM

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Again, if they go ahead and outlaw smoking the anti-smoking nazis would have to dig *DEEP* into their own pockets to pay for all the social programs and schools that they all enjoy now.
Like the old saw goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too!
I smoke but I'd have no problem with it being completely outlawed and tobbacco cos shut down but are you non-smokers ready to pick up the tab if you're granted your wish?
It'll be *extremely steep!*

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 12:04:28 PM

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Yup. But what about you ex-smokers, or the people who do smoke? Are you willing to pay more, for less?

Peace and Rapture

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 12:11:44 PM

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Ah...Dark, we're (smokers) paying a disproportionate share now!

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 12:12:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Again, if they go ahead and outlaw smoking the anti-smoking nazis would have to dig *DEEP* into their own pockets to pay for all the social programs and schools that they all enjoy now.
Like the old saw goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too!
I smoke but I'd have no problem with it being completely outlawed and tobbacco cos shut down but are you non-smokers ready to pick up the tab if you're granted your wish?
It'll be *extremely steep!*

I would gladly spend money on that instead of the 100s of thousands it took to keep my stepfather alive at the end. His last week on earth cost taxpayers around 100k alone. I would pay a lot more to keep those same kids from ever lighting up and screwing up their young lungs

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 12:16:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah...Dark, we're (smokers) paying a disproportionate share now!

Well, that is your choice.

And that didnt really answer my question. If smoking was banned, removed - would you be willing to pay the same as what you are now, without the benefits of smoking. I certainly would. If it meant more taxes to remove polutants of anykind... you bet the fuck I would. Would you?

Peace and Rapture

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 2:10:02 PM

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Perhaps you need to read some information from the Surgeon General on second hand smoke and its dangers:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/

C~

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 2:21:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Perhaps you need to read some information from the Surgeon General on second hand smoke and its dangers:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/

C~

What about every thing else that kills people like obesity, car drivers, G W Bush but people seem happy with them.

Actually, I've seen a medical report that refuted the secondhand smoke argument with collated hospital stats, the government tried to kill it because it went against their propaganda.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/19/2006 2:24:48 PM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 2:56:54 PM

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meatcleaver, have you ever seen anyone die from a smoking related disease? I have, and it ain't pretty. I think that the government loves propaganda, which is why they allowed cig companies to advertise to and hook our kids, disguise what was in tobacco, let the cig companies add 1000s of chemicals to the cigs and alter the amount of nicotine in them...

That being said, the only reason they allow the cig companies to exist is the tax revenue and the special interest lobbys that they can afford to buy.

I can tell you as someone who quit, no one single action has impacted my life so negatively as starting smoking, and no single action has improved my quality of life as quitting. If you knew how offensive smoking was to nonsmokers I do not see how you could try to continue to advocate how unharmful it is.. you must know from some rational standpoint that it kills people? Do you think emphysema is a made up thing? I have seen it take out people. It isn't...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 3:21:32 PM

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Not from smoking. I know two people that have died of lung cancer and neither were smokers and several of pnuemonicosis, a couple of smokers and a couple that weren't. I don't remember any government or public angst about it though but then they were industrial related deaths, not leisure deaths.

I'm hoping my genes pull through for me. My grandfather started smoking at 12 and smoked all his life until he died at 99. My father is 81 and has smoked all his life and has outlived just about all his contemporaries, some who died of lung desease but again, industrial related.

It was Blair's government that tried to kill the medical report but then that is the sort of thing he does if it goes against his gut reaction.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 3:27:30 PM

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Meatcleaver, it doesnt matter what you argue. Smoking is a contributing factor to some deaths. So is obesity. So are cars. Life is a contributing factor. Thing is - be positive, and why cop out?

Peace and Rapture

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 3:32:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Meatcleaver, it doesnt matter what you argue. Smoking is a contributing factor to some deaths. So is obesity. So are cars. Life is a contributing factor. Thing is - be positive, and why cop out?

Peace and Rapture

Life is a slow death but hopefully the end is fast.

It's pointless worrying about death because it is the only certainty.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 3:51:36 PM

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Regarding the Surgeon General's statistics.......

Dave Hitt, a prominent member of the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco challenged the figures. After reading how many thousands are claimed to die from second hand smoke he simply said "Name three".

If you ever read reports such as that, note how the claims are always "increased risk". But the fact is .00000001% is an "increased risk". It doesn't mean it's a significant risk.

You have to constantly read into what people really mean by this "increased risk". Example.

In March 1998 the World Health Organisation was forced to admit that the results of a seven-year study (the largest of its kind) into the link between second hand smoking and lung cancer were not 'statistically significant'. This is because the risk of a non-smoker getting lung cancer has been estimated at 0.01%.

According to WHO, non-smokers are subjecting themselves to an increased risk of 16-17% if they consistently breathe other people's tobacco smoke.

This may sound alarming, but an increase of 16-17% on 0.01 is so small that, in most people's eyes, it is no risk at all.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 3:57:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Meatcleaver, it doesnt matter what you argue. Smoking is a contributing factor to some deaths. So is obesity. So are cars. Life is a contributing factor. Thing is - be positive, and why cop out?

Peace and Rapture

Life is a slow death but hopefully the end is fast.

It's pointless worrying about death because it is the only certainty.

(edit - Geeeeeeeeeez... I should just give up tonight because all I keep doing is typos....

all I wanted was a cheezy grin....)

there!

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 7/19/2006 3:58:45 PM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:11:32 PM

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Common sense will tell you that second hand smoke is less harmful than actually smaoking a cigarette. But when people have an agenda, truth goes out the window. We keep hearing that 50,000 people die from second hand smoke each year ( used to be 500,000, but even anti smoking people saw that as ludicrous). That would mean that second hand smoke kills as many as car accidents. Why not ban cars too then?
I would like to see where all these people who are dying from second hand smoke are?
This is another instance of irrationality and emotion trumping facts. I wonder whether global warming or second smoke will kill me first?

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:24:16 PM

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MANNNNNnn did I stumble into a thread that will get my boxers in a wad ..... let me loose and here we go

I can see this is about second hand smoke and smoking in general so let me share some information on what I discovered over my 42 years of life:

A) .. the amount of carinogens in second hand smoke is so minute that someone would have to be standing to shoulder to shoulder with a smoker who smoked like a chimney for 15 years to be affected by the smoke.

B) Cancer is predetermined in your DNA . either your gonna get it or your not . my father smoked regulary and died of Cancer ... my aunt who had never touched tobacco in her life nor was around it died a year later from ..... you guessed it ..

C) carcinogens in smoke are no more poisonous then the fumes emitted even by the cleanest of cars and lets not forget about all those plants puffing thier stacks into our atmosphere

from what I can gather this whole second hand smoke issue was created and started by some waitress who didn't like the smell of second hand smoke and claimed someone was gonna give her cancer. Funny the TRUTH commercials now make claims to carbon monoxide and methane in ciggarettes and you might as well smoke a cows ass .. lmaoooo what they forget is those ingredients are also produced else where .. methane fumes are also prevalent in car exhaust so when they stop drivingg their fancy cars andride a bike . I'll consider stopping smoking around them .. carbon monoxide also in cars too.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:40:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Not from smoking. I know two people that have died of lung cancer and neither were smokers and several of pnuemonicosis, a couple of smokers and a couple that weren't. I don't remember any government or public angst about it though but then they were industrial related deaths, not leisure deaths.

I'm hoping my genes pull through for me. My grandfather started smoking at 12 and smoked all his life until he died at 99. My father is 81 and has smoked all his life and has outlived just about all his contemporaries, some who died of lung desease but again, industrial related.

It was Blair's government that tried to kill the medical report but then that is the sort of thing he does if it goes against his gut reaction.

My grandma smoked 3 packs a day, died at 70 from lung cancer

My grandfather died of emphysema when he was in his late 50s, smoked a lot

My stepuncle also died if emphysema in his late 50s, smoked 2 packs a day

One of my sister's best friends has COPD, she is 43 years old, and smokes two packs a day

Most recently, my stepfather passed from emphysema... just off the top of my head

Oh, my Uncle stroked out at 55 and lives in a rest home still

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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