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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:48:13 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

When I lived in New Hampshire they didn't have "Kindergarten".
They raised the tax on ciggarrettes to pay for Kindergarten in the whole state in addition to all the other money that they get for schools through taxing ciggarrettes.
I say outlaw them!
But, don't come to me looking for money when they have to do away with Kindergarten and when thousands of teachers get layed off.
The problem is that there are so many govt. programs that depend on tax money from ciggarrettes.
Hundreds of $billions$ worth. They should be THANKING smokers!


I believe it is unethical to create tax revenue off of the pain and suffering that I have personally seen cigarettes do. Take care of someone for two years that has emphysema, COPD, and suffered a stroke due to cigarette smoking. I did this for a close family member, watched him struggle for every fucking breath, and in the end he was more miserable than I have ever seen another human soul. If you think that it is moral to collect money off of such things you do, I know a lot of people think it is fine,... I don't


Julia while I have always respected everything you post this one I gotta stand up on ..... sorry but I HAVE watched someone go from a vital part of a family to a person I didn't even recognize .... I watched after him as they replaced his esophogus ... I watched as his skin and the whites of his eyes went yellow when the cancer got in his liver ... I was there the very first time I ever saw this man cry in my 15 years<then> of life as he leaned down and said I love you son .. another thing he never said to me but I knew it from his actions. that of course was the last day I saw and looked after that man because on my way home that evening a blood clot broke free and exploded his heart .. so I know all about watching someone suffer ..... now big suprise . I smoke too been smoking since I was 16 .. still kickin .. my granmother bless her heart is 91 and smoked since she was 16 till she was 76 .. Cancer is genetically controlled its actually a scientific fact that they are trying hard to supress these days .. if they don't truth will be called partial truth .. does smoking advance or quicken some of these things ..... maybe ... but fact remains cancer is predetermined in your DNA.
 
as for freedom to smoke . well shitfire . this country was created and founded on certain unalienable freedoms .. and guess what . check out all the pictures of the signing of said freedom document .. our forefathers were smoking too . and it was inside .... <gasp> what were they thinking .. they weren't they were saying dam good pipe I got today lets wriote some freedoms like
 
 Freedom from persecution .. in all its forms ... guess what all these anti smoking radicals are doing .. persecuting those who choose and excercise the right to smoke cigarettes
 


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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:51:40 PM   
KatyLied


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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

<gasp>


Is what many asthmatics do when exposed to your second-hand smoke.  You are free to smoke and take care of your health as you see fit.  But when it impacts the health of other people it is a public concern.


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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 4:54:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		These anti-smoking freakazoids are people that lost loved ones to cigarettes. It is not like they have an evil agenda. I am supposing that many people think MADD is nothing but a bunch of Nazis in skirts also, but that isn't true either. I hope my son never starts smoking, I hope the tobacco people stop getting new customers.. I say that as a mom...


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:02:52 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		and as a Dad . I have to agree with you .. I pray my son never picks up a smoke or any kind .. and I am not against MADD . I back them 100% and for theother person who commented on my gasp .... well asthmatics are also affected deeply by hot humid conditionsmuch like we are in right now .. should we also ban summer. lets see asthmatics are also plagued by excessive weight should we bann anythingthat might cause fat cells to appear on the humans .. and yea I know all about asthmatics . my oldest unmentionables mother is cronic ... and her weight and summers were brutal for both of us . many times I had taken her to the hospital for breathing treatments .. so I know about them too

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:10:15 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		We cannot control the weather, but we do not let our asthmatic children run around in it either. As having one I can tell you I had to keep him from many triggers, including beauty salons that had perms and colors being used. I had to take him to barbers when he was little because he turned blue and passed out. He had that reaction when he was in a smoky room once too. No we cannot stop all forms of pollution, but we can stop people from using a known trigger in public spaces. If you had to rush your child to ER like that it would scare the BeGebus outta you. It is not necessary to smoke indoors is it?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:19:26 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		My opinon on the poor maligned smokers: 

Suck it up!.. We non-smokers have been doing it for years.

What will we be asked to do next? Provide barf buckets for heroine addicts at the  restaurant tables?  A habit is a habit.

And I'd like to thank all the idiots that visit Arizona in the summer time that  think flicking the butts out the window won't harm anything.  It's how the majority of the wildfires get started here.. from #$%^&*()smokers!

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 7/19/2006 5:22:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:32:48 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		nescesary<god I always botch that word> no absolutely not . and I really have no issue at all with not smoking in a restaurant . I don't smoke around the dinner table either when I am home .... but if I got to a Bar or Pub then by george I want to be able to enjoy a good smoke while I am there instead of having to stand in the freezing snow or rain depending on the time of the year

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:47:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		People have asthma attacks as adults...but I think smoking in bars should be allowed or disallowed as the owner wants.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:51:24 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have asthma and smoke from ciggies always gives me an attack so i wouldnt want smokers to smoke around me out of cimsideration for my health not only cuz of a law but the law is good

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 5:56:03 PM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

My opinon on the poor maligned smokers: 

Suck it up!.. We non-smokers have been doing it for years.

What will we be asked to do next? Provide barf buckets for heroine addicts at the  restaurant tables?  A habit is a habit.

And I'd like to thank all the idiots that visit Arizona in the summer time that  think flicking the butts out the window won't harm anything.  It's how the majority of the wildfires get started here.. from #$%^&*()smokers!


i need to jump in on this.  Smoking is an addiction, not simply a habit.  As a matter of fact as an addiction it is harder to quit than heroin as with each puff a smoker gets a hit of his drug.  Smoking is stupid, causes ill health effects, makes the environment smell and costs way too much money.  However why is it free reign time to rag on smokers.  When has a smoker got behind the wheel of his car light a cigarette and killed a family??

We know we are heathens,  i am sure every smoker would love to just quit.  It is NOT that easy trust me I have tried.

I am simply tired of being everyones free whipping post.  Even my kids get it, my son said to me if a fat person is at a all you can eat food bar its not ok to go up to them and say yanno that is bad for you and your health you should stop eatting so much However its ok of late for strangers to talk to a smoker and tell them its unhealthy and they should quit.  Just for the record I am in Canada where we are not permitted to smoke inside anywhere, and must be 15 meters from any door way.  Lets not forget we have harsh cold long winters, that is when i swear i will become a fair weather smoker.

thanks for letting me jump in on this one.

owned

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 6:02:26 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		I couldn't agree more with Owned1.  I don't smoke around any non-smokers.  In fact, most smokers I know don't either.  If they do, you have every right to complain to them personally and I would applaud you for doing it.

But if I smoke anywhere that affects nobody but myself, I don't want to hear complaints from non-smokers about it. 

Because I'm too busy enjoying my cigarette

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 7/19/2006 6:13:26 PM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 6:04:44 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


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Joined: 12/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

People have asthma attacks as adults...but I think smoking in bars should be allowed or disallowed as the owner wants.


YEAHHHhhhhhhhh .. we finally agree on something   

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 6:05:32 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 7:34:49 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

This is where I agree with you. I've got nothing against smoke free environments, smoke free restuarants and smoke free bars but when some non smoker comes into a smokers bar and claims you infringe their rights, I think they are infringing my rights. There are enough smoke free bar and restuatrant businesses not to have to go into one with smoke. Why do they go into a smokers bar? To prove a point?

This reminds me a little a little when feminists wanted to get rid of men only clubs and when they did they set up women only clubs! It has nothing to do with the issue, just a wielding of power.

Now let's get down to the science. Traffic fumes increase your chance of lung cancer more than if you smoke 15-20 cigarettes a day. Other chemicals in the environment released by industry bring you into greater danger than cigarette smoke. Yes, if you smoke you are increasing your chances of lung cancer because your smoking is on top of all the other carcenagens in the environment that are more deadly

So why is no one bleating about all these other carcenagens in the environment that are more deadly than cigarette smoke? Let me hazard a guess. There is no one they can directly point a finger at and have power over. No one wants to stop using their car. Well as a bike rider I think I have every right to clean air on the road as a non-smoker has in a public place so stop using your cars!
..my thoughts exactly...I get so tired of feeling like a piriah in this what we call a free nation...Tempting

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 7:56:03 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1

.  When has a smoker got behind the wheel of his car light a cigarette and killed a family??



OH when they light up and for some reason the cigarette drops out of their mouth and into their lap and they are in a frenzy trying to get it. And they swerve unknowingly and create a head-on. something like that I imagine.

Don't feel badly, there are way too many things classified as addictions as far as I'm concerned.  No one forced you to take your first cigarette.

Actually, I feel this way about all the other “diseases/addictions”.  Who took the first drink?  Who took the first drag? Who took the first hit?  Who took the first éclair?

I was a smoker for 15 years.. I stopped.  No programs, I just decided to stop and I did.  My husband has smoked for 45 years. He stopped.  His 1st year tobacco free is in October.    He simple made up his mind to stop and did.  It was getting too freaking expensive. He weighted the enjoyment as to the cost and said  F*ck it.

My point is, if you are controlled by something and you are not happy, that is your problem.  You cannot expect the world to accommodate the addiction.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 8:33:03 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		fortunately us "addicted" smokers have been doing so with much freedom before all the reformed non smokers and original non smokers started their fuss over where we can light up or not. with so many things having carcenogens in them is it really my smoke that bothers you .. or is it you just need something to complain about that can be affected . I don't see a dam soul complaining about bacon being served in restaurants .. guess what . decade ago it was determined to contain carcenogens .... don't see anyone bitching about nutra sweet or slenda in restaurants .. guesswhat .. decade ago . it was determined to have carcenogens in it too .... so is it really my second hand smoke bothering you . or the smell of tobacco burning  ... we want truth .. alcohol kills cells in the body with every sip you take .... maybe we should bring back prohibition ... or is it that y'all like the taste of your wine and beer .....

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 8:54:45 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s

fortunately us "addicted" smokers have been doing so with much freedom before all the reformed non smokers and original non smokers started their fuss over where we can light up or not. with so many things having carcenogens in them is it really my smoke that bothers you .. or is it you just need something to complain about that can be affected . I don't see a dam soul complaining about bacon being served in restaurants .. guess what . decade ago it was determined to contain carcenogens .... don't see anyone bitching about nutra sweet or slenda in restaurants .. guesswhat .. decade ago . it was determined to have carcenogens in it too .... so is it really my second hand smoke bothering you . or the smell of tobacco burning  ... we want truth .. alcohol kills cells in the body with every sip you take .... maybe we should bring back prohibition ... or is it that y'all like the taste of your wine and beer .....
...Woof!!!...my hero!...Tempting

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:25:27 PM   
HouseofBear


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline 		We smoke.  If we are out with friends who do not smoke, we have no problem refraining from doing so around them or with going outside to do it.  That is courteous.  It is also our choice to either go out with non smokers or not.  Regulating smoking in a business however is taking away a business owner's choice.  We heartily agree that business owners should be able to decide whether smoking should be allowed in their own establishment (it belongs to them, not the government).  If an owner does not want smoking in their establishment, they they can ban it.  However, a business owner who smokes should be able to do so in their own establishment.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:27:24 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, but I had to jump to the end from page 2, I will catch up, but I need to say this.

My Grandfather siad it best, your rights end where mine begin.

Not everybody, but some seem to be saying that my rights need to be limited by their limitations. I, and none of my family have problems with cigarette smoke, most not with cigar smoke, none with pipe smoke, few with pot smoke. None of us like deisel fumes or even fuel fumes. But we don't have a problem.

My MAIN argument is that I will acomodate you when possible by not smoking around you. I agree that my rights end where your's begin. But if you walk into a smoke filled bar, don't you think that your rights have long ended before you asked EVERYBODY in the place to accomodate your special needs ? And they are special, nobody else has a problem. Leave. Your rights don'r include that.

Let places proudly display "We are a smoke free environment". If I had a restaurant it would have a smoking section even if it had to be in the basement. Screw them, that is turning down money. If I set up the ventilation, you will not be able to smell it.

To the other poster who says she can smell it anyway, in the words of a 91 year old, poppycock. If the gases from the cigarette do not come to your nose, you do not smell it. It is psychosomatic. Believe me these things happen.

I can make the airflow so good in a public place that you will not smell anything.

Now, to you non-smokers. Not to prove, but because I am objective, I want to state the following.

There is another thing smokers can't help but screw up for non-smokers. If I manage to wisk the air away fast enough, then the aroma of the food is gone. This is a very valid point.

I do think of both sides of an argument. Well, the problem I just mentioned in the last paragraph is one to which I did not have real world solution. I admit I sat here for a few minutes, but not long.

A bar and grill built symmetrically. Seperate parking lots, absolutely no air exchange, not even visibility. I you want to get to the other side you need to drive to the other side of the parking lot, and walk in the other entrance(s).

Think of what you do, if this keeps up a hamburger will be $50.

Not only do you not automatically have the right to go just anywhere, consider this. When I was young I fixed/modified etc. alot of cars. One day down at the junkyard they were shorthanded. "Help me carry it out and it will be $45". There was alot of mud and it was bad, but we trudged through it and retrieved my tranny.

What some are asking for is not much more than it would for me to demand they put in a sidewalk for me, to the tranny. Why won't they accomodate me ?

What's next ? Can I make my employer get rid of the shop cats because I am allegic to cats ? Now this is not recreation, this is my job, and it's for real. Now there's one for you, what if there are cats in a restaurant and you want to go there. Do they need to wash the walls down with bleach and promise never to bring cats there again ? Let me tell you, if someone has a severe allegy it is way more uncomfortable than cigarette smoke. I used to have it bad. ( there were times I couldn't see )

I got used to it, and what helped me was to light a pack of matches and inhale. I stopped all medication and used that method exclusively and I have been medication free ever since. I got used to it.

Non-smokers, if you all just got out of the cities, and go where the air is fresh, the rest of us can enjoy ourselves and you can have what you want. Go buy farms. Really.

I bet some of you can smell cigarette smoke through a piece of glass. Hypersensitive. Not even that, your mind has made the association, just seing it is enough. Now you ask that we change for appearances sake.

Not every non-smoker is like that, but if you would rather, go to places where they do not allow smoking. It is that simple. That could include employees too, so they won't have it on their breath after a break. You will be with people who agree with you, along with those who own and run the place. What could be better ?

T

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Second hand smoke - 7/19/2006 9:30:34 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Perhaps you need to read some information from the Surgeon General on second hand smoke and its dangers:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/

C~



What about every thing else that kills people like obesity, car drivers, G W Bush but people seem happy with them.


Thats just a red herring.  Lets stay focused on the actual topic that was raised of second hand smoke and its dangers.

quote:


Actually, I've seen a medical report that refuted the secondhand smoke argument with collated hospital stats, the government tried to kill it because it went against their propaganda.


Why don't you find something substantive that refutes the report from the United States Surgeon General (from a republican administration on top of it!)?

C~




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(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 80
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