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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Maybe the reason why my generation isn't as "active" as you seem to believe, is because we're too busy stressing over university debt and trying to find a decent paying job to barely start a life, of which there are considerably less than in the past.

Can't find a decent paying job? Start a business and pay yourself what you consider "decent" for what you do. Businesses aren't started to "create jobs." No one owes anyone else a job.

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And let's not forget Occupy wall street, which while it was a completely failed effort, it was huge at the time. How was that not raising hell? It might have failed, but it showed a massive discontent among millennia's toward the corruption and continued fraud of the banks.

Don't forget all those clowns that joined OWS to protest because there wasn't a job waiting for them after graduation. They blamed Wall Street and the banks for there not being jobs for them. Unless Wall Street and/or a bank promised a job to a student, there is nothing requiring them to offer employment to anyone.
I maintain that OWS's target was the wrong target. You're not going to stop Wall Street from buying the government it wants by appealing to Wall Street, or protesting Wall Street. The only way you're going to end the Wall Street - Government link is to prevent Government from being buyable.
You want to make a"decent wage?" You have two real choices. You can start your own business and decide what the wages are. Or, you can go to work for someone else and provide enough productivity that your employer would consider worth your "decent" wage.
If someone offered you your dream job and offered to pay you double what you would happily work for, would you decline the extra money?

You do realize you need money to make money right? No one is going to give a fresh out of university kid with 30-100k in debt a loan to start a business. Plus post secondary these days more or less gives us the foundation we need to start off in the industry, which means that we gain a lot of our knowledge about the industry by working in it. While I have no problem starting a business further down the road, that's not in the cards for 99% of students, especially in my field. Get your head out of your ass, this isn't the 1950s, the same standards back then simply do not apply to today. Like I said to Fido, spend a day as a millennial and you'll be singing a different tune, because you have no idea what it is like for us trying to navigate a proverbial minefield the previous generations left behind for us.

Riiiight. I have no idea what a millennial is going through. I didn't go back to college at the tender age of 40 because I couldn't find a job after being laid off in 2010. I didn't go to school to better myself and make myself a more enticing candidate. I didn't find any issues in getting hired as a 40-something who has been unemployed for 3 years. And, to top it off, before my first year was over, I went through a divorce.

Yeah. No idea how tough it can be. Spare me. Get off your pedestal. There aren't "participation trophies" in the real world.

You make excuses for why you can't start your own business, and whine about not being able to find a job for a decent wage.

Thank God we have had people who have found a way to make things work without the good graces of wealth. You're in environmental studies, right? How much capital do you need to start doing research? Have you tried a GoFundMe, or other crowd-sourcing? Do you have an idea for a product that someone might be willing to pay money for?

Technically you don't know, because you at least had a background, some experience. And if you wanted to start a business, chances are you would have gotten a loan for it. A student with nearly 0 experience in the workforce wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. And it's not about finding a job with a decent wage, it's about finding a job period. Like I said before it's not just me, EVERY other major and program is facing the same kind of dificulty. There isn't the kind of abundance of employment there was decades ago.

As for your question about research, you need a lot more funding than you think in order to buy land, materials, etc. Not to mention a PhD or a Master's would be more suitable to conducting research than my current bachelors so I'm already being out competed by researchers from universities and larger private companies. Not to mention Resource management is pretty hard to do when you can't find new resources, my program focuses on balancing the need of human society with the needs of the natural environment, so it's a little dificult to make a company based around that. Personally I intend to complete a master's in business so that I can work in management within the environmental sector, which should open up numerous more doorways for me than is currently available, but to do so I need 2 years of work experience before hand, and therein lies the problem. Simply finding a job for the majority of my peers is dificult, and many of us likely have tried starting their own businesses, only to be outcompeted by larger companies that are generally more capable than a few green, fresh out of university kids. That or they were refused loans because they don't have a good enough credit rating yet and they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

Nothing and no one guarantees us a job, I get that, and I'm not saying that I'm entitled to a job. College and university open doors and possibilities, that all. But is it unfair to complain about not being able to find a job? Hell no, everyone has a right to complain about it, no matter how old you are. Is it fair for older folks like you to blame millennials for not trying hard enough? Hell no, we're doing the god damn best we can with what we have available. What you think are easy solutions like starting a company, aren't often that simple and straight forward. Like I said, this isn't the 60-70s anymore, kids don't have lots of opportunities once done university, especially if it's just a bachelors. Today a Master's is the new Bachelors, which is why I and several of the people I know are going that route. Is it right for millennials to dislike older generations for broad stroking their generation? Yes, it pisses us off that you place 1970-80 standards on us when those standards no longer apply. Is it right for millennials to blame previous generations for the lack of current employment? Well, yeah, since it was thanks to actions and policies introduced by previous generations that made things so easy for the baby boomers as they aged, but not so much for the younger generations entering the workforce.

I look forward to the day the baby boomers either all retire or die out, because I read an article a while back saying it will create massive vacancies in industries all over the spectrum. Wouldn't that be an interesting day if it came to pass.

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It's funny, some of the things that experience can teach you. I can walk through a room of people working and just know who is producing and who isn't. I can also sit on a hiring panel for an entry level job and know which of the applicants will be producers and which wouldn't. Generally, when a kid graduates from college with a resume showing six or eight years of work experience at any place, even McDonalds, compared to a kid with no experience but who really wants to let me know how they're going to run things to their view of correctness the decision isn't hard. But, there are even more subtle things I'd have scoffed at in my youth. Those things I now understand just from having been around a while. Who know my parents knew anything?

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Maybe the reason why my generation isn't as "active" as you seem to believe, is because we're too busy stressing over university debt and trying to find a decent paying job to barely start a life, of which there are considerably less than in the past.

Can't find a decent paying job? Start a business and pay yourself what you consider "decent" for what you do. Businesses aren't started to "create jobs." No one owes anyone else a job.

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And let's not forget Occupy wall street, which while it was a completely failed effort, it was huge at the time. How was that not raising hell? It might have failed, but it showed a massive discontent among millennia's toward the corruption and continued fraud of the banks.

Don't forget all those clowns that joined OWS to protest because there wasn't a job waiting for them after graduation. They blamed Wall Street and the banks for there not being jobs for them. Unless Wall Street and/or a bank promised a job to a student, there is nothing requiring them to offer employment to anyone.
I maintain that OWS's target was the wrong target. You're not going to stop Wall Street from buying the government it wants by appealing to Wall Street, or protesting Wall Street. The only way you're going to end the Wall Street - Government link is to prevent Government from being buyable.
You want to make a"decent wage?" You have two real choices. You can start your own business and decide what the wages are. Or, you can go to work for someone else and provide enough productivity that your employer would consider worth your "decent" wage.
If someone offered you your dream job and offered to pay you double what you would happily work for, would you decline the extra money?

You do realize you need money to make money right? No one is going to give a fresh out of university kid with 30-100k in debt a loan to start a business. Plus post secondary these days more or less gives us the foundation we need to start off in the industry, which means that we gain a lot of our knowledge about the industry by working in it. While I have no problem starting a business further down the road, that's not in the cards for 99% of students, especially in my field. Get your head out of your ass, this isn't the 1950s, the same standards back then simply do not apply to today. Like I said to Fido, spend a day as a millennial and you'll be singing a different tune, because you have no idea what it is like for us trying to navigate a proverbial minefield the previous generations left behind for us.

Riiiight. I have no idea what a millennial is going through. I didn't go back to college at the tender age of 40 because I couldn't find a job after being laid off in 2010. I didn't go to school to better myself and make myself a more enticing candidate. I didn't find any issues in getting hired as a 40-something who has been unemployed for 3 years. And, to top it off, before my first year was over, I went through a divorce.
Yeah. No idea how tough it can be. Spare me. Get off your pedestal. There aren't "participation trophies" in the real world.
You make excuses for why you can't start your own business, and whine about not being able to find a job for a decent wage.
Thank God we have had people who have found a way to make things work without the good graces of wealth. You're in environmental studies, right? How much capital do you need to start doing research? Have you tried a GoFundMe, or other crowd-sourcing? Do you have an idea for a product that someone might be willing to pay money for?

Technically you don't know, because you at least had a background, some experience. And if you wanted to start a business, chances are you would have gotten a loan for it. A student with nearly 0 experience in the workforce wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. And it's not about finding a job with a decent wage, it's about finding a job period. Like I said before it's not just me, EVERY other major and program is facing the same kind of dificulty. There isn't the kind of abundance of employment there was decades ago.

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"And it's not about finding a job with a decent wage, it's about finding a job I'm willing to work period."

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As for your question about research, you need a lot more funding than you think in order to buy land, materials, etc. Not to mention a PhD or a Master's would be more suitable to conducting research than my current bachelors so I'm already being out competed by researchers from universities and larger private companies. Not to mention Resource management is pretty hard to do when you can't find new resources, my program focuses on balancing the need of human society with the needs of the natural environment, so it's a little dificult to make a company based around that. Personally I intend to complete a master's in business so that I can work in management within the environmental sector, which should open up numerous more doorways for me than is currently available, but to do so I need 2 years of work experience before hand, and therein lies the problem. Simply finding a job for the majority of my peers is dificult, and many of us likely have tried starting their own businesses, only to be outcompeted by larger companies that are generally more capable than a few green, fresh out of university kids. That or they were refused loans because they don't have a good enough credit rating yet and they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

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Nothing and no one guarantees us a job, I get that, and I'm not saying that I'm entitled to a job. College and university open doors and possibilities, that all. But is it unfair to complain about not being able to find a job? Hell no, everyone has a right to complain about it, no matter how old you are. Is it fair for older folks like you to blame millennials for not trying hard enough? Hell no, we're doing the god damn best we can with what we have available. What you think are easy solutions like starting a company, aren't often that simple and straight forward. Like I said, this isn't the 60-70s anymore, kids don't have lots of opportunities once done university, especially if it's just a bachelors. Today a Master's is the new Bachelors, which is why I and several of the people I know are going that route. Is it right for millennials to dislike older generations for broad stroking their generation? Yes, it pisses us off that you place 1970-80 standards on us when those standards no longer apply. Is it right for millennials to blame previous generations for the lack of current employment? Well, yeah, since it was thanks to actions and policies introduced by previous generations that made things so easy for the baby boomers as they aged, but not so much for the younger generations entering the workforce.

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I look forward to the day the baby boomers either all retire or die out, because I read an article a while back saying it will create massive vacancies in industries all over the spectrum. Wouldn't that be an interesting day if it came to pass.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Like I said, this isn't the 60-70s anymore, kids don't have lots of opportunities once done university, especially if it's just a bachelors. Today a Master's is the new Bachelors, which is why I and several of the people I know are going that route. Is it right for millennials to dislike older generations for broad stroking their generation? Yes, it pisses us off that you place 1970-80 standards on us when those standards no longer apply. Is it right for millennials to blame previous generations for the lack of current employment? Well, yeah, since it was thanks to actions and policies introduced by previous generations that made things so easy for the baby boomers as they aged, but not so much for the younger generations entering the workforce.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Zonie it seems to me that we, meaning the US, beat ourselves up over the condition of the world today. I believe this dead wrong. The direct result of the industrial and military might of the US is a massive increase in the well being of every human on this earth.

I agree, although that wasn't really what I was getting at. I was also thinking in terms of the condition of the US. In fact, this may even point up part of the problem. Ever since WW2, we've been so overly concerned about "the world" that we forgot to take care of ourselves. I think of people who pat themselves on the back for sending money to starving children in Africa, while shitting all over the poor in our own country. This is what we've become.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

You have certain advantages that I didnt have at your age.. you can live at home while you go to school and work, for I am assuming as long as you want... I didnt have that as i grew up on a farm so when i left home at 17 i had to support myself right from the start (while still finishing grade 12).. But the biggest advantage you have is that you have figured out what you want to do, the industry/job you want.. I didnt have a clue at your age and for some time after.. I think most young people know its gonna be hard for them so they look hard at the options and decide whats right for them & develop a plan, I dont think most of your generation do much "keeping up with the Joneses" and all that crap, your generation (on the whole) is more focused, aware and realistic than any other generation, imo..

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
I'm doing my absolute best to enter the industry that I've been working towards.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

You have certain advantages that I didnt have at your age.. you can live at home while you go to school and work, for I am assuming as long as you want... I didnt have that as i grew up on a farm so when i left home at 17 i had to support myself right from the start (while still finishing grade 12).. But the biggest advantage you have is that you have figured out what you want to do, the industry/job you want.. I didnt have a clue at your age and for some time after.. I think most young people know its gonna be hard for them so they look hard at the options and decide whats right for them & develop a plan, I dont think most of your generation do much "keeping up with the Joneses" and all that crap, your generation (on the whole) is more focused, aware and realistic than any other generation, imo..

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

You have certain advantages that I didnt have at your age.. you can live at home while you go to school and work, for I am assuming as long as you want... I didnt have that as i grew up on a farm so when i left home at 17 i had to support myself right from the start (while still finishing grade 12).. But the biggest advantage you have is that you have figured out what you want to do, the industry/job you want.. I didnt have a clue at your age and for some time after.. I think most young people know its gonna be hard for them so they look hard at the options and decide whats right for them & develop a plan, I dont think most of your generation do much "keeping up with the Joneses" and all that crap, your generation (on the whole) is more focused, aware and realistic than any other generation, imo..

Two weeks after I turned 18 I had to either start paying rent or move out of the parents home. I worked two jobs at a time to put myself through university and survive on my own. I just thought that's how it was done. Now you tell me I could have stayed at my parents until I was thirty, lived off them and whined? Hum? Who'd have thunk it?

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ORIGINAL: tj444
At 21 I bought a house.. not a condo, not a townhouse, a real single family 3 bedroom house (with a basement which we never used) with my boyfriend (we were both only 21).. In most cities today a 21 year old couple simply cant do that, not even close!!!! y

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Lol, I'm in the science field, and compared to many other majors there technically are plenty of jobs. But news flash, every millennial is running into this problem. My ex's brother was an engineer and it took him 2-3 years to find his first engineering gig, and those are jobs that are typically the most abundant. While I agree that some majors have more job opportunities than others, I went into my program expecting there to be more jobs at the end than others, and from what I've heard it's true, there are more jobs in environmental science than other majors. But at the same time, our country hasn't exactly been supporting much in the way of green progress, and as I stated earlier many companies prefer older and more experienced people for the positions. I'll say what I said to the others, spend a day a millennial and you'll be singing a different tune, because you know shit about what we have to go through.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
While I have that option if I want it, I'm doing my best not to rely on it since it's not how I want to start my life. Not to mention I go to school quite a distance away from my folks do living at home is pretty out of the question. Although there are many people, such as my roommate, that are in the same boat you were in. He literally cant live at home, for reasons that are personal and I'm not fully aware of. But yeah, my dad was the same as you in the sense that he didn't know what he wanted to do, but the reason why I did is because there was such tremendous pressure from those older than us to figure out what we want to do with our lives. I'm lucky that I found what I want to do and I'm enjoying learning about it. My brother wasn't so lucky as he dropped out of university 3 times before he started doing what he really enjoyed, largely thanks to pressure from my parents and those older than us. But don't get me wrong, there are boat loads of idiots in my generation, morons who don't put in the effort or really care about succeeding, or setting the bar extremely low. But after conversing with some of the morons on here, I'm well aware that there are those kinds of people in every generation, ours being no more or less different.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Nnanji

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

You have certain advantages that I didnt have at your age.. you can live at home while you go to school and work, for I am assuming as long as you want... I didnt have that as i grew up on a farm so when i left home at 17 i had to support myself right from the start (while still finishing grade 12).. But the biggest advantage you have is that you have figured out what you want to do, the industry/job you want.. I didnt have a clue at your age and for some time after.. I think most young people know its gonna be hard for them so they look hard at the options and decide whats right for them & develop a plan, I dont think most of your generation do much "keeping up with the Joneses" and all that crap, your generation (on the whole) is more focused, aware and realistic than any other generation, imo..

Two weeks after I turned 18 I had to either start paying rent or move out of the parents home. I worked two jobs at a time to put myself through university and survive on my own. I just thought that's how it was done. Now you tell me I could have stayed at my parents until I was thirty, lived off them and whined? Hum? Who'd have thunk it?

At 21 I bought a house.. not a condo, not a townhouse, a real single family 3 bedroom house (with a basement which we never used) with my boyfriend (we were both only 21).. In most cities today a 21 year old couple simply cant do that, not even close!!!! yeah, they have reasons to bitch about things today for them.. the smart ones work their asses off but live at home and squirrel away every dollar they can so that some day they can have enough to buy a starter home or maybe only a tiny house... The way things were done in your day aint the way they can do it today (or they would be doing it that way too)... geeze..

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Hey I can totally agree, which is why I started working in high school at McDonnell's, then as a lifeguard/life saving instructor for about 3 years. But moving onto higher level summer positions in my industry? Not so easy. You need experience to get experience, and with regards to the industry I wish to work in, it took a while to actually slip into the industry. Last year I was only able to work part time in the agroforestry department at my university while being able to do an independent research project with the prof I was working under. Thanks to that minimal work experience (plus the project experience) I was able to get a full time summer position as a research assistant this summer working on Integrated Pest Management (IPM). It was damn hard even getting that part time position because even profs at the university prefer 3rd-4th year students, so I had to go through 2 summers where half the time I wasn't even employed. Blew chunks, and any amount of experience simply working any job really didn't seem to do a whole lot in the eyes of those who are actually in the industry.

You have certain advantages that I didnt have at your age.. you can live at home while you go to school and work, for I am assuming as long as you want... I didnt have that as i grew up on a farm so when i left home at 17 i had to support myself right from the start (while still finishing grade 12).. But the biggest advantage you have is that you have figured out what you want to do, the industry/job you want.. I didnt have a clue at your age and for some time after.. I think most young people know its gonna be hard for them so they look hard at the options and decide whats right for them & develop a plan, I dont think most of your generation do much "keeping up with the Joneses" and all that crap, your generation (on the whole) is more focused, aware and realistic than any other generation, imo..

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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ORIGINAL: tj444
At 21 I bought a house.. not a condo, not a townhouse, a real single family 3 bedroom house (with a basement which we never used) with my boyfriend (we were both only 21).. In most cities today a 21 year old couple simply cant do that, not even close!!!! y

How much did both of you earn at 21, and how much did the house cost? How did you manage to get enough money by 21 for that house?

I mean, I got my home at 23 with my partner too, but I was working since 16 yr old and have accumulated for my place, and back then, it was only 173k. And we were able to practically just do 1% down payment and loan the rest. So it worked out.