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RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 4:47:57 AM

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oh yeah I think she should move on as well. I think most of the time when newbies agree to do this it's more on the inclination of romantic than what a power dynamic is. I often ask newbies what a power dynamic is and they reply back what in the hell are you talking about? That tells you where there head is at.

But I said many times before no matter what kind of D/s relationship it is, discussion and communication are key.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 4:52:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76
...no matter what kind of D/s relationship it is, discussion and communication are key.

Absolutely!!!
This is something we say to every potential unicorn we chat with.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to LilJuly76)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 5:01:20 AM

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I guess when a lot of people find out about this stuff online, they figure the whole thing of being D/s or M/s is some romanticized thing, they have no clue it is hard work to keep that kind of relationship going, I think even harder if it's a poly D/s relationship.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 5:41:09 AM

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I agree.
I think the fantasy gets into their head not realising that the reality is very very different.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to LilJuly76)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 5:50:29 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilJuly76

tending to agree with the new subfrenzy part. Seems to me you jumped into poly without discussing and communicating with the Dominant and maybe with the alpha sub.

It seems from her post#55 that this was indeed discussed and an agreement reached.
However, her post only depicts the romantic side of things, not the power dynamic.
It doesn't appear to be a well balanced V arrangement.

That said, a new sub entering into an already established D/s setup very rarely is unless a lot of careful discussion has taken place beforehand.
Also bearing in mind the newbie isn't a live-in like the alpha sub is, unless otherwise agreed, the alpha sub is very likely to be a steering influence on the dom whether the newbie realises it or not; purely by virtue that the alpha is there 24/7 and the newbie isn't.

I think the non-live-in newbie would be better off seeking a more compatible V.

ETA: I seem to have missed a whole page of responses!
OP didn't explain she was only a friend of the disgruntled sub, not the other party involved.
That still doesn't detract from my original post#2: the sub can walk away if they aren't happy with the arrangement.
I think that would be the best move in this scenario.
Not happy = walk away. Simples!

She did explain that.

Also, this new sub has a right to bring it up fully. She said she's "tried" bringing it up. But trying and actually laying it all out are two different things. I think the second sub is jealous, plain and simple, and the existing sub could have been the frigging Virginia Mary and the second sub still would have found reasons to hate her. The Dom needs to take charge and make the second sub feel secure and wanted or he'll lose her and her second sub needs to really speak up. But I suspect she's already made up her mind to leave and needs to do it sooner than later so her Dom and his existing sub can find a more compatible lady

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 6:26:11 AM

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I'm not reading any jealousy at all in the thread, none at all.

What I'm getting is new sub joins an already established 24/7 D/s arrangement to be a V.
New sub is complaining that dom is being steered by alpha sub and effectively being remotely 'dommed' by her rather than the dom himself doing it; and she doesn't like it.

As I've said twice now: don't like it, get out and find someone more suitable.
As the unicorn, that should be an easy-peasy task for new sub - they are in great demand.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 7:14:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
I didn't sign up for a triad. I shouldn't have to feel like that is the case.

That about sums it up.

Clearly there's some crossed wires regarding what your V-relationship is. You have to be upfront and clear about these things when going into the relationship.

Sounds like you can accept a "V" as long as it's just you and your Dom when it's "your turn", so to speak, whereas their idea of a V is he has 2 subs/women in his life who are not committed to a formal power dynamic or relationship with each other. You can accept the Dom having others, but you don't want them in the room participating in your dynamic. (which also means you don't actually want to be a unicorn.... unicorns are expected to be part of a triad).

I will say this, as a woman, I think Doms who try to do what your Dom is doing with you and the alpha are crazy lol. You put 2 women you're having sex with in a room, and sparks and fur will fly, one way or another lol

(in reply to BubblegumTicTac)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 7:19:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
I'm not a live in sub. Plus I'm not in a relationship with the alpha. From the beginning we were agreed that our relationship was only friendly, and not romantic.

Edited to add the not.

I was going to skip this one, but what the heck...

First, I do still see this as V type poly. You and the other sub aren't really anything to each other, aside from metamours. I haven't seen anything on the thread to infer that you have any other relationship over and above the fact that you both happen to be involved with the same person. I don't see any independent relationship between the other sub and yourself. You visiting their home while she is present doesn't make you a triad.

With this said, anytime you have one person who has the situation where the place is their home and another (you) who is basically a guest, there will be things that come up. It's her home, not yours, so depending on the situation, she might get a say in certain things. You haven't mentioned if any of this input is permitted at your place or in neutral locations, so I'm a little iffy on that.

I know you didn't write the three examples given but I'm wondering if some of them are the infamous 's-types throwing each under the bus' kind of things. None of them sound terribly serious, especially the number of push-ups kind of deal. It's difficult to know the kind of tone that's happening. It could have been, 'ha, ha, no, 25 isn't enough, she should do 50' gig.

Without these two pieces of information, it's impossible to know what's really going on. Since you know your situation, these would be two counts that could be factors for you to make a determination.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BubblegumTicTac)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 8:54:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I was going to skip this one, but what the heck...

First, I do still see this as V type poly. You and the other sub aren't really anything to each other, aside from metamours. I haven't seen anything on the thread to infer that you have any other relationship over and above the fact that you both happen to be involved with the same person.

I don't really view it as a V since the other sub is present and is allowed to have input into the interaction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac

I have tried communicating with him that I wish he wouldn't change his orders because of what she says, because of my believing it is not doing anything to strengthen our relationship.

I didn't sign up for a triad. I shouldn't have to feel like that is the case.

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.

Well, technically, you did sign up for a triad, just not the one you've gotten. I would sit down with both of them, tell them that you feel she is running the relationship. Stay calm, be adult, keep on topic. If some dialog and compromise doesn't start - I would walk.

The reality is that there aren't a lot of women willing to join an existing couple and you have plenty of people looking for someone like you.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 8:55:21 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I'm not reading any jealousy at all in the thread, none at all.

What I'm getting is new sub joins an already established 24/7 D/s arrangement to be a V.
New sub is complaining that dom is being steered by alpha sub and effectively being remotely 'dommed' by her rather than the dom himself doing it; and she doesn't like it.

As I've said twice now: don't like it, get out and find someone more suitable.
As the unicorn, that should be an easy-peasy task for new sub - they are in great demand.

Really, no jealousy? You don't understand women very well. If she wasn't jealous of the power and liberty given to the alpha sub, she wouldn't be complaining about it.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 9:05:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I'm not reading any jealousy at all in the thread, none at all.

What I'm getting is new sub joins an already established 24/7 D/s arrangement to be a V.
New sub is complaining that dom is being steered by alpha sub and effectively being remotely 'dommed' by her rather than the dom himself doing it; and she doesn't like it.

As I've said twice now: don't like it, get out and find someone more suitable.
As the unicorn, that should be an easy-peasy task for new sub - they are in great demand.

Really, no jealousy? You don't understand women very well. If she wasn't jealous of the power and liberty given to the alpha sub, she wouldn't be complaining about it.

I don't see that particular aspect of a power dynamic to be a jealousy issue.
She wants the dom to run the dynamic, not the alpa sub.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you are jealous if someone else is steering the train.
That's a preference she signed up to (and not getting), not jealousy.
And seeing as my OH reads these posts that I type and whole-heatedly agrees with 99.99999% of them.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 9:17:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I'm not reading any jealousy at all in the thread, none at all.

What I'm getting is new sub joins an already established 24/7 D/s arrangement to be a V.
New sub is complaining that dom is being steered by alpha sub and effectively being remotely 'dommed' by her rather than the dom himself doing it; and she doesn't like it.

As I've said twice now: don't like it, get out and find someone more suitable.
As the unicorn, that should be an easy-peasy task for new sub - they are in great demand.

Really, no jealousy? You don't understand women very well. If she wasn't jealous of the power and liberty given to the alpha sub, she wouldn't be complaining about it.

It's not jealousy to be upset that she's being Dommed by someone she didn't agree to have as a Dominant.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 9:41:40 AM

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Well said OG. Why couldn't I say it like that?!??

Need more coffee!!

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

George Orwell, 1903-1950

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 10:24:30 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

Posts: 786
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I'm not reading any jealousy at all in the thread, none at all.

What I'm getting is new sub joins an already established 24/7 D/s arrangement to be a V.
New sub is complaining that dom is being steered by alpha sub and effectively being remotely 'dommed' by her rather than the dom himself doing it; and she doesn't like it.

As I've said twice now: don't like it, get out and find someone more suitable.
As the unicorn, that should be an easy-peasy task for new sub - they are in great demand.

Really, no jealousy? You don't understand women very well. If she wasn't jealous of the power and liberty given to the alpha sub, she wouldn't be complaining about it.

It's not jealousy to be upset that she's being Dommed by someone she didn't agree to have as a Dominant.

Then it comes down to her telling her friend and not her Dom what the issues are. That's her mistake, not her Dom's. The Dom isn't going to leave his alpha sub, so this second sub needs to leave the relationship , or speak up and deal with the truth.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 10:27:15 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
.

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.
[

Battle? Take her side?

Sounds like jealousy to me.

(in reply to BubblegumTicTac)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 10:28:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Then it comes down to her telling her friend and not her Dom what the issues are. That's her mistake, not her Dom's. The Dom isn't going to leave his alpha sub, so this second sub needs to leave the relationship , or speak up and deal with the truth.

According to her she has tried talking to him:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac

I have tried communicating with him that I wish he wouldn't change his orders because of what she says, because of my believing it is not doing anything to strengthen our relationship.

And she realizes that the Alpha sub is going to come out on top:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 10:33:20 AM

Posts: 14414
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
.

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.
[

Battle? Take her side?

Sounds like jealousy to me.

So, in your mind the only time that there would be a "battle" or that there is a side to take is because of jealousy?

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 11:16:35 AM

Greatlilbabygirl

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Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
.

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.
[

Battle? Take her side?

Sounds like jealousy to me.

So, in your mind the only time that there would be a "battle" or that there is a side to take is because of jealousy?

Battling with a third party and blaming the third party for her problems with her Dom, yes in this case I do. Especially when sex and multiple relationship partners are involved. Her Dom needs to take charge, and he would if he really cared about this second sub and if she really clearly communicated her issues. If she didn't, then she can't blame him. If she did and he isn't making any efforts to accommodate her than he's either a heartless jerk or he doesn't value this second sub. There is no sugar coating it.

But only the affected person can tell is the truth and she seems to have disappeared.

I took a break from my poly relationship when things got upsetting for myself, because I recognized it was my problem, not anyone else's and stopped placing blame on anyone else. My Dom understood and wanted me to be happy. If her Dom isn't a total asshole, then her actually communicating with him would have been effective.

< Message edited by Greatlilbabygirl -- 9/21/2016 11:20:01 AM >

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 11:23:48 AM

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I don't really view it as a V since the other sub is present and is allowed to have input into the interaction.

The allowing input I'm still a little fuzzy about because I don't know the context.

I think we're seeing the poly descriptor differently because you're looking at the co-mingling aspect and I'm taking my basis of determination of whether it's a triad based on the four relationship method.

A and B = Dom and his primary partner = relationship

A and C = Dom and new sub = relationship

A + B + C = Time they spend in the same physical space = possible relationship

B + C = No relationship/Just friends/Tolerate each other = Missing element for a triad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BubblegumTicTac
I have tried communicating with him that I wish he wouldn't change his orders because of what she says, because of my believing it is not doing anything to strengthen our relationship.

I didn't sign up for a triad. I shouldn't have to feel like that is the case.

But most likely, I'm not going to win this battle. He's going to take her side on everything. So this post doesn't matter anymore. I'm wanting to leave.

If you want to leave, that's cool. You should always do what is in your best interest. Anybody that is in a relationship that they feel is more negative than positive isn't doing themselves any favors by staying in a situation that makes them unhappy.

For the future, there might want to be some things to consider should you want to be involved again with someone who already has a primary partner and you very specifically don't want to be in a triad:

If you really want to be a "V," look for situations where you are not always on the primary partner's home turf. Whether that be neutral places or that you host the person that you are in the relationship with. (You might even run across somebody like me who puts a lot on that latter one. If I won't stay the night at your place, you're really not that important to me, so easy way to figure that out.)

Ask the person that you are going to get involved with if they consider the people in their lives in primary and secondary roles. A lot of "V" type relationships really aren't equal when it comes to time, attention, etc. If you are really looking for a relationship independent of the other person, you have to have some kind of idea about how that is going to happen. However, don't expect somebody (the other sub) to leave their own home because a certain amount of time is supposed to be 'yours'. Sometimes, you will have to be the person to make this viable. (If you were a male sub, people would be saying to pop for a hotel once in a while.)

I'd also probably say, if you are a secondary, pretty much accept that you're not going to have a say in their house, their kids, their finances, etc. The other sub doesn't come to your house and expect to have any kind of say over what color curtains you have or anything else. Accept that is going to be ground that you'll never get until the day comes that your name is on the mortgage/lease, too.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: A Dom that lets his alpha sub change his mind - 9/21/2016 11:36:33 AM

Posts: 14414
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Battling with a third party and blaming the third party for her problems with her Dom, yes in this case I do.

The Alpha certainly is partially to blame for the Beta's problems. It's not jealousy to say, 'I don't want this person to control the relationship". (I would also argue that there's some jealousy on the part of the Alpha sub in that she feels the need to control the interaction)

quote:

Her Dom needs to take charge, and he would if he really cared about this second sub

That's a big jump. The more likely explanation is that he's not really Dominant and dealing with this is outside of his experience.

quote:

If she did and he isn't making any efforts to accommodate her than he's either a heartless jerk or he doesn't value this second sub. There is no sugar coating it.

Or it could be that he doesn't know how to handle the situation or lacks the skills to handle the situation.

quote:

If her Dom isn't a total asshole, then her actually communicating with him would have been effective.

Wrong. Not having the skills to deal with situation or deal with confrontations doesn't make someone an asshole.

If I had the three of them (as presented in this thread) in front of me for a session, my assessment would be:

That he's not really Dominant and lacks the ability to lead a poly relationship. (Many believe that Topping or control issues equals being dominant)
The Alpha is more dominant than the Dominant, suffers from jealousy and takes it out by controlling the relationship
The Beta jumped into a relationship that she didn't know much about, didn't have firm boundaries and made what, for her, is a bad decision in joining the relationship.

In the end, we know none of the people involved and it's just arm chair quarterbacking.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)

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