RE: inferior?

RE: inferior? (Full Version)

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needlesandpins -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 8:17:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, I am talking about appearances and perceptions, not about individuals. Your friend had a difficult time. Some transgendered people do not even try to transition because of the disparity between appearance and perception. Some have been known to commit suicide because of the lack of support and the loneliness of their lives. I don't know your friend; I have never met your friend; I thought we were exploring universal issues not particular people. It is regrettable that you cannot loosen your emotional attachments and deal with the issues in a more civil manner. I did not expose my thoughts with the intent of pissing anyone off. Please lighten up. It would maybe have helped if you'd read everyone's posts, and realised the context of my post about masculinity before replying to me, and seen exactly why I posted what I did. You made it personal by telling me what my perceptions are based on instead of actually asking me, which is down right arrogant. I was talking to a particular couple of people, based on what one person had said, it's called a conversation. It was a very directed statement in the first place. Therefore what I said was rather fitting to that particular section of the conversation, and not generalization, thanks all the same for your sofa judgement of it. If you don't want to piss people off, try asking questions before giving your narrow field of judgement based on one comment not directed at you. I have no need to lighten up on the matter, I don't appreciate Mansplaining for something that actually I'm very well aware of my reason for already. Needles

ResidentSadist -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 9:20:26 AM)
I can't believe how sensitive everyone is about the word inferior. It simply and literally means "lower rank", as a sub is to a Dom or slave is to a Master or a bottom is to a Top. Why would a Dom want a submissive that thought they were the superior in the relationship? ADJECTIVE lower in rank, status, or quality: low or lower in position: NOUN a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability:

LadyPact -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 11:55:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You and Des raise an important issue here. A chicken or the egg question? ~~ which I earlier discounted because the parents were forced to shoulder the "blame" for the development of gay male behavior. In the broader sense (and pretending to have a knowledge of psychology) we can ask the question: which came first the pattern of behavior as a social meme or the behavior itself? Did Jung's archetypes precede the erotic magazines or did the magazines make up an acceptable image simply by chance that colored in between the lines of Jung's archetypes? I was very much influenced by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch's Venus in Furs but I cannot swear whether it preceded my kink or followed it. How would I know how to behave if not for the media? Or, was I excited by the images in magazines before I ever knew about the rationales in Venus? Clearly, Leopold predated the magazines I saw during my teen years, but I was not aware if him. So, confusing. But really simple enough. The model was out there and i conformed my behavior to it. Or, I had these strange desires and I found a rationale for them. Which? But wait, it can get even more confusing. A Hungarian born Canadian physician, Dr. Gabor Mate created a stir about ten years ago when he published his theory that the cause of adult addictions can be found in childhood stress events Mate's definition of addiction is broad enough to include some paraphilia like BDSM inferiority. Dr Maté defines addiction as any behaviour or substance that a person uses or takes part in that has negative consequences. The person tries to stop but will crave the substance or behaviour and will ultimately relapse. By this definition there are many things in modern culture that have the potential to become addictive such as gambling, sex, work and of course drugs.[10] He argues the "war on drugs" actually punishes people for having been abused and entrenches addiction more deeply as studies show that stress is the biggest driver of addictive relapse and behavior.[5] He says a system that marginalizes, ostracizes and institutionalizes people in facilities with no care and easy access to drugs, only worsens the problem.[5] He also argues the environmental causes of addiction point to the need to improve child welfare policies (e.g. U.S. welfare laws that force many single women to find low-paying jobs far away from home and their children) and the need for better support for families overall, as most children in North America are now away from their parents from an early age due to economic conditions.[5] He feels that society needs to change policies that disadvantage certain minority groups, causing them more stress and therefore increased risks for addictions.[5] There has been a lot of comment in the area of addiction and childhood stress the last ten years or so. Geneticists have discovered DNA~altering mechanisms that can link childhood stress to adult addictions, but I am way in over my head at this point, so I'll quit here. Very much interested in your replies. Some really good stuff in here. There are times I wish I was more philosophical or had better answers. I'll just do the best I can. As a Dominant woman, or even as a top, I consider myself as having to attempt to sort out certain things. One of them, as many Dominant women have mentioned countless times over the years on the boards is, does this person really think this kind deal works the same way it does in porn. Is the person honestly mentally unhealthy, believing themselves to be a lesser human being? Did they just make the mistake of leading with their kink first? It's hard to tell when people have only the stereotypes of porn to go on, so you have to wonder which of the categories that they are coming from. Just so it's clear that people don't think I'm bashing certain segments of people, I'll turn this thing around. When you see an introduction that seems to come straight from a porn flick, one of the common stereotypes that are popular... Maybe the female top who is the ice princess, or they engage in S/m because they hate men, or start going on about their God-given superiority due to gender, race, or any other thing: What do you think? Are you terribly impressed that this is a well rounded individual? Does it occur to you that this person might really be the type of narcissist that might not be a good idea to be around? Are they playing, putting forward the kind of scenes they would like to have or is this person an abusive twat who might actually be abusive? I'm the first person to tell you. If I was producing porn, I'd exploit the crap out of certain stereotypes/themes because I'd be in the business of making money. I'd absolutely do my market research to be aware of what sells. Here's your script. We know this type of thing does well. It's a different motivator.

vincentML -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 12:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I can't believe how sensitive everyone is about the word inferior. It simply and literally means "lower rank", as a sub is to a Dom or slave is to a Master or a bottom is to a Top. Why would a Dom want a submissive that thought they were the superior in the relationship? ADJECTIVE lower in rank, status, or quality: low or lower in position: NOUN a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability My comments were addressed to a much wider point and one I imagine we have all dealt with at some time: why am i different? How did it happen that i have a fetish for the power dynamic? Why is it that some have a fetish for shoes? Or, feet? Why are some same sex attracted and others are not? Why are some convinced their SELF identity does not match their biological identity? How did it come about that some do not have the perception to match their appearance? What are the ORIGINS of the development of this SELF that does not conform to the perceived Norms? I think this is a major question that the members of LGBTQ community face at some time in their lives. And beyond the community it is a major issue world wide because we queers are everywhere but we are not treated with the human dignity to which we are entitled. There are several optional answers to the question. We can say we were born this way. But the gay gene has proven to be elusive. We can say that childhood experiences (good or bad) lead our development to who we are, but that raises even further questions. I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts on the question but if there is no interest, that's all well and good, I will move on. Wrong time wrong place.

vincentML -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 12:17:19 PM)
Some really interesting questions, LP. Give me a day or two and i will respond. Just off a bout of the Flu and I think I lost Sunday. [:)]

UllrsIshtar -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 12:58:44 PM)
~FR~ I find it interesting that everybody seems to jump to the conclusion that "inferior" = "worse than". Maybe it's the fact that I'm a non-native speaker, but when I use/read the term in regards to M/s, some of the other definitions come to mind instead: quote: in·fe·ri·or ˌinˈfirēər/ adjective adjective: inferior 1. lower in rank, status, or quality. "schooling in inner-city areas was inferior to that in the rest of the country" synonyms: second-class, lesser, lower in status, lower-ranking, subordinate, second-fiddle, junior, minor; noun noun: inferior; plural noun: inferiors 1. a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability. "her social and intellectual inferiors" synonyms: subordinate, junior, underling, minion, menial, peon "how dare she treat him as an inferior?" In both cases, the definition says "lower in rank, status, OR ability/quality". Or, not and. So while "less than" is certainly an acceptable way to interpenetrate inferior, it's not its only meaning, and not necessarily included in the meaning of the word. It depends on context. So yeah, any slave in this house is consider to be inferior to my husband and me. They're even considered to be inferior in ability and quality when it comes to certain skills (like leadership), just like we're inferior to them in certain other skills (like service). Does that make them inferior in the sense that they are "less valuable than us" as human beings? Nope... just different. Does that make them inferior in the sense that they are of "lesser rank or status" than us in the hierarchy in the household? Yup, absolutely. Any slave who comes and tells me that they're not my inferior, and are my equal instead, won't be a slave in this house for long.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 1:06:48 PM)
The implication, though not explicit, is there. The implied assertion is that they are of lower rank/status because they have a lower ability. Ergo: means or equates to "worse than" in some form.

tamaka -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 1:10:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I can't believe how sensitive everyone is about the word inferior. It simply and literally means "lower rank", as a sub is to a Dom or slave is to a Master or a bottom is to a Top. Why would a Dom want a submissive that thought they were the superior in the relationship? ADJECTIVE lower in rank, status, or quality: low or lower in position: NOUN a person lower than another in rank, status, or ability My comments were addressed to a much wider point and one I imagine we have all dealt with at some time: why am i different? How did it happen that i have a fetish for the power dynamic? Why is it that some have a fetish for shoes? Or, feet? Why are some same sex attracted and others are not? Why are some convinced their SELF identity does not match their biological identity? How did it come about that some do not have the perception to match their appearance? What are the ORIGINS of the development of this SELF that does not conform to the perceived Norms? I think this is a major question that the members of LGBTQ community face at some time in their lives. And beyond the community it is a major issue world wide because we queers are everywhere but we are not treated with the human dignity to which we are entitled. There are several optional answers to the question. We can say we were born this way. But the gay gene has proven to be elusive. We can say that childhood experiences (good or bad) lead our development to who we are, but that raises even further questions. I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts on the question but if there is no interest, that's all well and good, I will move on. Wrong time wrong place. I truly believe it is something your soul craves that it had in a past life.

PeonForHer -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 4:43:10 PM)
quote: Any slave who comes and tells me that they're not my inferior, and are my equal instead, won't be a slave in this house for long. Shudder. I couldn't believe such a thing no matter how hard I were to try. Too much in me would be saying (to myself as well as any given 'femdom') 'Oh, bullshit. Stop with the silly little fantasy'. The more I were try to push that, the quicker I'd begin to see myself and my supposed superior(s) as berks. For me, one part (the 'inferior part') contradicts the other part (the part that sees the relationship for what it is); I don't ever expect the contradiction to go away ... and that is that. The trick is not to fight the contradiction, but to go with it, because therein lies the fun. I choose to be 'inferior' to an equal, or even a superior, because that floats my boat, and no other reason - no matter how paradoxical that is. Still, that's just me.

tamaka -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 5:30:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Any slave who comes and tells me that they're not my inferior, and are my equal instead, won't be a slave in this house for long. Shudder. I couldn't believe such a thing no matter how hard I were to try. Too much in me would be saying (to myself as well as any given 'femdom') 'Oh, bullshit. Stop with the silly little fantasy'. The more I were try to push that, the quicker I'd begin to see myself and my supposed superior(s) as berks. For me, one part (the 'inferior part') contradicts the other part (the part that sees the relationship for what it is); I don't ever expect the contradiction to go away ... and that is that. The trick is not to fight the contradiction, but to go with it, because therein lies the fun. I choose to be 'inferior' to an equal, or even a superior, because that floats my boat, and no other reason - no matter how paradoxical that is. Still, that's just me. What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't.

PeonForHer -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 5:48:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. Balls, Tamaka. There's little else to be said other than that. [;)]

tamaka -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 5:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. Balls, Tamaka. There's little else to be said other than that. [;)] :)

longwayhome -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:11:42 PM)
I entirely get that Peon. No matter how much I crave submission, it is still a conscious decision. It is not a recognition that someone is better than me (e.g. has higher social standing, is more intelligent or has better skills). Instead I choose to be submissive in some of my personal relationships because it gives me and, hopefully, the other person all sorts of satisfactions. In practice I am agreeing to behave in a certain way and show a particular form of respect in those relationships. It could be described as accepting a "lower rank" but it's more about role than capability for me. Whether for example my leadership skills are better or worse than the other person's is a moot point. I would be a fairly rubbish Dom, not because I am not capable of learning and adapting, but more because I just don't really want to do it in my close personal relationships. I can be dominant when I need to but that's not the same. In other words as Peon says I choose to be submissive because it "floats my boat", not through some innate feeling of inferiority.

Greta75 -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. Huh? How is this so? He could be leader over other men at work, but just a sub to his wife, for example.

longwayhome -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:24:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Any slave who comes and tells me that they're not my inferior, and are my equal instead, won't be a slave in this house for long. Shudder. I couldn't believe such a thing no matter how hard I were to try. Too much in me would be saying (to myself as well as any given 'femdom') 'Oh, bullshit. Stop with the silly little fantasy'. The more I were try to push that, the quicker I'd begin to see myself and my supposed superior(s) as berks. For me, one part (the 'inferior part') contradicts the other part (the part that sees the relationship for what it is); I don't ever expect the contradiction to go away ... and that is that. The trick is not to fight the contradiction, but to go with it, because therein lies the fun. I choose to be 'inferior' to an equal, or even a superior, because that floats my boat, and no other reason - no matter how paradoxical that is. Still, that's just me. What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. That's just not true. Anyone who is submissive is only choosing to be submissive to a specific person or people. If you feel yourself inferior to whole sections of the population that pretty much amounts to having an inferiority complex, which is an entirely different thing. By choosing to be in a submissive role with a female partner, I am specifically not making myself inferior to other men. There are men around here who think differently but they would get a big shock with me if they treated me in that way. In the old days of Informed Consent people used to talk about being "submissive, but not your submissive" to counter those jumped up protocol monkeys who thought that, because they declared themselves to be Dom/mes, they were superior to subs in general and expected all subs to show them the respect they "deserved". You don't get special treatment just because you declare yourself to be a Dom/me.

longwayhome -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:25:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. Huh? How is this so? He could be leader over other men at work, but just a sub to his wife, for example. My point exactly, Greta. [:)]

tamaka -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:30:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Any slave who comes and tells me that they're not my inferior, and are my equal instead, won't be a slave in this house for long. Shudder. I couldn't believe such a thing no matter how hard I were to try. Too much in me would be saying (to myself as well as any given 'femdom') 'Oh, bullshit. Stop with the silly little fantasy'. The more I were try to push that, the quicker I'd begin to see myself and my supposed superior(s) as berks. For me, one part (the 'inferior part') contradicts the other part (the part that sees the relationship for what it is); I don't ever expect the contradiction to go away ... and that is that. The trick is not to fight the contradiction, but to go with it, because therein lies the fun. I choose to be 'inferior' to an equal, or even a superior, because that floats my boat, and no other reason - no matter how paradoxical that is. Still, that's just me. What you don't understand Peon, is that by placing yourself in the position of a sub, you are inferior to every other man that doesn't. That's just not true. Anyone who is submissive is only choosing to be submissive to a specific person or people. If you feel yourself inferior to whole sections of the population that pretty much amounts to having an inferiority complex, which is an entirely different thing. By choosing to be in a submissive role with a female partner, I am specifically not making myself inferior to other men. There are men around here who think differently but they would get a big shock with me if they treated me in that way. In the old days of Informed Consent people used to talk about being "submissive, but not your submissive" to counter those jumped up protocol monkeys who thought that, because they declared themselves to be Dom/mes, they were superior to subs in general and expected all subs to show them the respect they "deserved". You don't get special treatment just because you declare yourself to be a Dom/me. It is true to me.

longwayhome -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:32:59 PM)
Tamaka - do you also think that all sub women are inferior to non-sub women? Or is this just a prejudice you have about male subs?

tamaka -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:35:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome Tamaka - do you also think that all sub women are inferior to non-sub women? Or is this just a prejudice you have about male subs? Just sub males.

longwayhome -> RE: inferior? (4/3/2017 10:36:55 PM)
You're a real darling. [:)]

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