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RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 5:53:33 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Yeah, some pages have turned, and aren't going to un-turn.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 861
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 7:05:08 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'.

Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'.


By your illogic, the girl who was killed was as bad as any violent, hate-filled raging masked communist-anarchist there, and deserved to die

"Because no one would march shoulder-to-shoulder with that kind unless they fully agreed with their radical hate and violence blah blah blah stupidity"

You expect us to believe that the people there were all perfectly ideologically black and white, with absolutely no shades of grey or any color at all...

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(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 862
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 7:08:42 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'.

Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'.


By your illogic, the girl who was killed was as bad as any violent, hate-filled raging masked communist-anarchist there, and deserved to die

"Because no one would march shoulder-to-shoulder with that kind unless they fully agreed with their radical hate and violence blah blah blah stupidity"

The people there were all perfectly ideologically black and white, with absolutely no shades of grey or any color at all


I was going to make a similar comment. But talking to tweak is like talking to a rock.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 863
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 7:10:35 AM   
BoscoX


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I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down

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Profile   Post #: 864
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 11:28:24 AM   
itsSIRtou


Posts: 836
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down


the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none.

ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings.

ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period.

u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are.



_____________________________

I will allways be a knight, instead of a prince.

What would the internet be like if we couldn't say trump is a moron?

The Republican party complains government doesnt work for people, and then makes darn sure it cannot.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 865
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 11:43:20 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down


the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none.

ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings.

ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period.

u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are.



Spanky, you bring so much pride to ignits. I'm sure your momma is proud of you.

(in reply to itsSIRtou)
Profile   Post #: 866
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 12:08:12 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


I know, but there are lurkers here who may not see through the willful ignorance / propaganda she lays down


the "unite the RIGHT(wing)" marchers were there to impose their white version of sharia law including protecting a statue supporting their "history" of traitorous murders, lynching's, & slavery, even though as told by one of u on another thread lee disavowed slavery & personally owned none.

ur willful association with the killers of that woman means u two rockheads are NOT good right-wing people let alone good people or even good human beings.

ur willful wanting to assign the same blame for her death on the victim herself because she just happened to be in the way of a premeditated nazi killer using a 3500 pound high performance car as his weapon to kill & maim those who opposed them, because for once, the right-wing groups didn't have the overwhelming amount of weapons there, also makes u NOT on the side of good people period.

u cant even claim propaganda ..... ur just plain wrong. Just as the majority of Americans feel u are.



Spanky, you bring so much pride to ignits. I'm sure your momma is proud of you.

His mom certainly has a lot more to be proud of than yours does.

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(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 867
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 12:35:49 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline 		Lol...you're spanky's Boss Hoe now.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 868
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 1:22:45 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
OK. It's totally a government thing. If the government would just let of it all, health care would be perfect, dirt cheap, available to all.
we'd never get sick and we'll never die.


Nowhere did I claim government was the sole reason for the high costs. I do think it's a huge reason for the high cost of care in the US.

Employer -provided health insurance is a market response to government actions.

Government opening itself up to be the payer is going to distort the market and government will cave to pressures and the spigot is going to open wide.

I've said it before, if the US is going to have Universal Care, it's going to have to almost completely take over the sector; own the provider infrastructures, be the employer, etc. But, to do that, I wholeheartedly believe it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment authorizing it (and, I've also said before, I'd support an Amendment for that). IMO, there is zero chance care costs are ever going to drop in the US with bullshit little regulations. The Market will always find a work around. Government is going to have to go all-in, or get the fuck out almost completely. This middle of the road shit is only making things worse.


quote:

And . . . this is a white supremacist issue how again?
Charlottesville was about health care?


Thread Drift, MM. Thread drift.



(What I love about Des is...he thinks things through...not everyone agrees with him {I generally do...but...I {nearly always} know where he came from....most times)...unfortunately...most just grab on to his comments with a predisposed position...and then...run off with their own rant...disregarding his thinking...inserting their own....as the most beneficial to their cause).

I've never seen him be divisive...instructive...yeah...divisive...never.

(And...like MM...I've never seen him be unfair....as to truth).

< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 8/27/2017 1:45:04 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 869
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 1:30:44 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And apparently that these were the good Nazis.


Nazi's = Devil (we don't really disagree on that)

Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing (we do disagree on that)


From where I sit, the point is not whether anyone opposing Nazis can do no wrong. The point is that 'good people' don't associate with Nazis. The reverse of that is equally valid: anyone publicly associating with or supporting Nazis is not a 'good person'.

Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'.


But...he (Trump) was right...in reality...

The bad guys showed up with guns.

(The "good guys" showed up with bats).

No one was "right".

(There were just some who were "righter" than others).

By the way...no right thinking...anyone...thinks the KKK was "right".

But truth requires full consideration.

(One of the things I learned in my divorce back in the stone ages of 1997 was...."There's three sides to every story: Yours....hers...and the truth").

< Message edited by AtUrCervix -- 8/27/2017 1:46:14 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 870
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 1:51:20 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march


The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that.


I couldn't either...their beliefs are anathema to mine but...there are some who would shoulder what they believe in.

What man hasn't questioned....equal rights for men...(yet...they were absconded...rights of EVERY kind for a private place...of the same kind...everywhere men turn?). Why aren't there "men only" exercise places (there once were men's only clubs...however....equal rights laws turned them ALL over) and...yet...when they existed...they were without question obliterated by every women's rights groups....yet...no right thinking man would have any argument as to a women's "only" place to socialize, gather.

Because men a) aren't going to fight this discussion and b) we also respect women.

We "get it".

Men are quietly (maybe even loudly) being obscured to a "second place".

It isn't even being done privately.

White men...all the more.

Does that make me a racist?

Not at all...it makes me a realist.

There are no white colleges, yet there are dozens of black colleges.

Recently...a black college found it objectionable that a group of students (white) showed up (on a tour),,,wearing MAGA hats.

Indeed, they actually caused police to come in and deal with issues caused by 2 students wearing....MAGA hats.

A HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A FREAKING HAT!!

Recently...a white HORSE in the news (not sure of the school) was deemed to be racially inflammatory.

(A Horse).

(I actually did say that...it was a horse. A horse that had been paraded on to the field for...ohhhh....the last 40 freaking years).

A horse.

A white horse.

(A HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Things are getting a bit silly.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 871
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 2:43:36 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
(And...like MM...I've never seen him be unfair....as to truth).


im sorry---if you believe that, you are missing quite a bit.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 872
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 3:18:37 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itsSIRtou
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And apparently that these were the good Nazis.

Nazi's = Devil (we don't really disagree on that)
Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing (we do disagree on that)

Anyone opposing Nazi's = above wrongdoing on the same level as the nazi's, klan, ect. (we do disagree on that.)
starting with mass beatings and work ur way up to murders and lynching's....


I'm good, thanks. But, completely dismissing bigotry, hate, and violence from one side simply because they oppose the neo-nazi/white supremacist side is completely wrong.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to itsSIRtou)
Profile   Post #: 873
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 3:24:32 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville participating in a 'Unite the Right' march. There weren't any 'good people' marching with the Nazis. Public association with/support for Nazis automatically eliminates anyone meriting the descriptor 'good people'.


And, that's where you're missing the point (you're not alone in this). Trump didn't allocate equal blame for anything on anyone. He said both sides were to blame for the hate, bigotry, and violence. You're assuming it's equal. MM is assuming he's equating the counter-protesters beliefs as being as horrible and despicable as the neo-nazi's beliefs. Neither one of you is correct in that.

Both sides were guilty of hate and violence. The hate and violence should have no place in America (which is another thing he said). How can you disagree with either of those two things? Granted, the second is a belief and not, technically, up for consideration of how factual it is or not. But, both sides bear responsibility for the violence that occurred that day. And, that's what Trump said.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 874
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 3:26:52 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march

The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that.


Neither could I, PFH, unless it was a reenactment, or something of that nature. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to not have any bad feelings deep down about it.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 875
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 5:42:00 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march

The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that.


Neither could I, PFH, unless it was a reenactment, or something of that nature. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to not have any bad feelings deep down about it.



And that's why the Nazi's were summoned. To silence everyone else who might disagree with removing the statues.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 876
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 6:05:08 PM   
BoscoX


Posts: 10663
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline
From rather a left wing source:

‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis



Fighting Nazis is a good thing, but fighting Nazis doesn’t necessarily make you or your cause good. By my lights this is simply an obvious fact.

The greatest Nazi-killer of the 20th century was Josef Stalin. He also killed millions of his own people and terrorized, oppressed, enslaved or brutalized tens of millions more. The fact that he killed Nazis during World War II (out of self-preservation, not principle) doesn’t dilute his evil one bit.

This should settle the issue as far as I’m concerned. Nazism was evil. Soviet communism was evil. It’s fine to believe that Nazism was more evil than communism. That doesn’t make communism good.

Alas, it doesn’t settle the issue. Confusion on this point poisoned politics in America and abroad for generations.

Part of the problem is psychological. There’s a natural tendency to think that when people, or movements, hate each other, it must be because they’re opposites. This assumption overlooks the fact that many — indeed, most — of the great conflicts and hatreds in human history are derived from what Sigmund Freud called the “narcissism of minor differences.”

Most tribal hatreds are between very similar groups. The European wars of religion were between peoples who often shared the same language and culture but differed on the correct way to practice the Christian faith. The Sunni-Shia split in the Muslim world is the source of great animosity between very similar peoples.

The young communists and fascists fighting for power in the streets of 1920s Germany had far more in common with each other than they had with decent liberals or conservatives, as we understand those terms today. That’s always true of violent radicals and would-be totalitarians.


The second part of the problem wasn’t innocent confusion, but sinister propaganda. As Hitler solidified power and effectively outlawed the Communist Party of Germany, The Communist International (Comintern) abandoned its position that socialist and progressive groups that were disloyal to Moscow were “fascist” and instead encouraged communists everywhere to build “popular fronts” against the common enemy of Nazism.

These alliances of convenience with social democrats and other progressives were a great propaganda victory for communists around the world because they bolstered the myth that communists were just members of the left coalition in the fight against Hitler, bigotry, fascism, etc.

More

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(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 877
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 6:28:14 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


Trump's allocation of equal blame to both sides, (which many of us find so objectionable) relies on the assertion that there were 'good people' alongside the Nazis KKK et al at Charlottesville in a 'Unite the Right' march


The thought really does make me struggle: Is it possible to be marching, shoulder to shoulder, with a man carrying a swastika? I'm damned sure I couldn't do that.


I couldn't either...their beliefs are anathema to mine but...there are some who would shoulder what they believe in.

What man hasn't questioned....equal rights for men...(yet...they were absconded...rights of EVERY kind for a private place...of the same kind...everywhere men turn?). Why aren't there "men only" exercise places (there once were men's only clubs...however....equal rights laws turned them ALL over) and...yet...when they existed...they were without question obliterated by every women's rights groups....yet...no right thinking man would have any argument as to a women's "only" place to socialize, gather.

Because men a) aren't going to fight this discussion and b) we also respect women.

We "get it".

Men are quietly (maybe even loudly) being obscured to a "second place".

It isn't even being done privately.

White men...all the more.

Does that make me a racist?

Not at all...it makes me a realist.

There are no white colleges, yet there are dozens of black colleges.

Recently...a black college found it objectionable that a group of students (white) showed up (on a tour),,,wearing MAGA hats.

Indeed, they actually caused police to come in and deal with issues caused by 2 students wearing....MAGA hats.

A HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A FREAKING HAT!!

Recently...a white HORSE in the news (not sure of the school) was deemed to be racially inflammatory.

(A Horse).

(I actually did say that...it was a horse. A horse that had been paraded on to the field for...ohhhh....the last 40 freaking years).

A horse.

A white horse.

(A HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Things are getting a bit silly.



USC has a guy dressed like a Trojan ride on field at football games. The name of the Horse is Traveler. Robert E. Lee once had a horse named Traveler. So the whole USC horse thing is racist. I understand the Trojan horse and Lee horse names were spelled differently. I'm not going to look up different horse name spellings.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 878
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 6:39:19 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


From rather a left wing source:

‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis



Fighting Nazis is a good thing, but fighting Nazis doesn’t necessarily make you or your cause good.
More


Bosco, the Chronicle is very liberal left wing. The Author, however, is mainstream right wing.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 879
RE: White Nationalists turn violent in VA -- state of e... - 8/27/2017 8:37:23 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		LOLOLOLOLOLOL

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

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Profile   Post #: 880
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