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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 9:29:10 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri WTF is this world coming to when you have people willing to "swat" people they don't know? Holy shit this is getting ridiculous.

What is the world coming to when the police higher command have instilled as standard procedure to not even even bother properly vetting or questioning sufficiently the original caller before sending a heavily armed hair-trigger military-style squadron to somebody who's pissed somebody else off?
As has been pointed out already, "SWATting is most often done by those who DO know their intended victims. That's the whole point in the first place.
Like I said, police training and official procedure comes from policy bestowed from above.
Is it because they are actually that stupid, or is it that they have such animus toward the the lower echelons of society, and paid well enough for implementing just that?
See a pattern, here?


I sure do see a pattern. A call was made and a homicide and hostage situation was reported. I haven't seen if they've released audio of the emergency call. Have they? Unless or until they do, it's going to be tough to determine if the call was properly vetted or sufficiently questioned.

In a homicide and hostage situation where the alleged perpetrator is also talking about setting the place on fire, how much time do you think it should take before SWAT is called? How much time do you think there is between a call and the next action? SWAT teams aren't waiting around dressed to go 24/7. Response rates for the police could be several minutes out there.

A father of 2 was shot and killed because he stopped following police orders an brought his hands to his waistband in what the police thought was a potentially very deadly situation.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/30/574789231/police-arrest-suspect-in-fatal-swatting-prank
    quote:

    Officers soon flanked the house on three sides and readied themselves for a confrontation, Livingston said in his press conference. Finch appeared at the door to the house and, following verbal commands from the officers, stepped forward with his hands up. At numerous points, however, he reached for his waistband. Fearful that Finch was going for a firearm, an officer discharged one round, killing the father of two, said Livingston.
    [Bold mine]


What do you know about Andrew Finch? Do you know, for instance, that he is in the "lower echelons of society?"

Yes. I do see a pattern here. You jump to conclusions without a full arsenal of facts and/or understanding of reality.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 10:23:31 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You and all your friends know that cops are brutal morons, and they can feel your contempt for them. This contempt is a major part of the problem.

Because, of course, that's purely a a one way process: no cop has ever felt contempt for lefties who don't deserve to be protected by the benevolent police state: these stupid liberals are even worse than the niggers, who at least have the excuse that they're too stupid to know any better.

Thank you, you have just confirmed my view of the left's opinion of the police.


He is pointing out that the same RWNJs who keep saying 'libruls think all police r subhuman', also act like the cops are always right, absolved of all blame in every case, and downplay their mistakes/prejudices.
Thanks to the RWNJs, America is a place where absolutely everyone should probably be considered armed and dangerous... but that doesn't mean this is the first time somebody has swatted someone, or that only the asshole caller is to blame.


If either of you had any active rain cells you would have noticed that at no
time I have said that the cop was clearly justified. But of course since I have asked to see what actually happened I must want
to give the cop a pass since if you don't automatically know the cop is a murderer you are not open minded since the only reason
anyone becomes a cop is so they can get away with murder. Both of you knew the cop committed murder without getting any facts.


You have mental problems.
I SAID NO SUCH THING.

You didn't ask what actually happened, you don't care what actually happened, you just want to bash libruls for things that they haven't actually said or done.
Don't worry, no matter what happened, I guarantee the SWAT team won't be faulted in any way.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 10:37:21 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You and all your friends know that cops are brutal morons, and they can feel your contempt for them. This contempt is a major part of the problem.

Because, of course, that's purely a a one way process: no cop has ever felt contempt for lefties who don't deserve to be protected by the benevolent police state: these stupid liberals are even worse than the niggers, who at least have the excuse that they're too stupid to know any better.

Thank you, you have just confirmed my view of the left's opinion of the police.


He is pointing out that the same RWNJs who keep saying 'libruls think all police r subhuman', also act like the cops are always right, absolved of all blame in every case, and downplay their mistakes/prejudices.
Thanks to the RWNJs, America is a place where absolutely everyone should probably be considered armed and dangerous... but that doesn't mean this is the first time somebody has swatted someone, or that only the asshole caller is to blame.


If either of you had any active rain cells you would have noticed that at no
time I have said that the cop was clearly justified. But of course since I have asked to see what actually happened I must want
to give the cop a pass since if you don't automatically know the cop is a murderer you are not open minded since the only reason
anyone becomes a cop is so they can get away with murder. Both of you knew the cop committed murder without getting any facts.


You have mental problems.
I SAID NO SUCH THING.

You didn't ask what actually happened, you don't care what actually happened, you just want to bash libruls for things that they haven't actually said or done.
Don't worry, no matter what happened, I guarantee the SWAT team won't be faulted in any way.

Wrong, as usual. I have repeatedly asked what happened and never said
that I had made up my mind as to what happened. The fact that my wanting to
know what happened tells you that in my mind I have cleared the cop
means you don't need facts to convict him, in your mind he is guilty.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 10:39:20 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri WTF is this world coming to when you have people willing to "swat" people they don't know? Holy shit this is getting ridiculous.

What is the world coming to when the police higher command have instilled as standard procedure to not even even bother properly vetting or questioning sufficiently the original caller before sending a heavily armed hair-trigger military-style squadron to somebody who's pissed somebody else off?
As has been pointed out already, "SWATting is most often done by those who DO know their intended victims. That's the whole point in the first place.
Like I said, police training and official procedure comes from policy bestowed from above.
Is it because they are actually that stupid, or is it that they have such animus toward the the lower echelons of society, and paid well enough for implementing just that?
See a pattern, here?


I sure do see a pattern. A call was made and a homicide and hostage situation was reported. I haven't seen if they've released audio of the emergency call. Have they? Unless or until they do, it's going to be tough to determine if the call was properly vetted or sufficiently questioned.

In a homicide and hostage situation where the alleged perpetrator is also talking about setting the place on fire, how much time do you think it should take before SWAT is called? How much time do you think there is between a call and the next action? SWAT teams aren't waiting around dressed to go 24/7. Response rates for the police could be several minutes out there.

A father of 2 was shot and killed because he stopped following police orders an brought his hands to his waistband in what the police thought was a potentially very deadly situation.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/30/574789231/police-arrest-suspect-in-fatal-swatting-prank
    quote:

    Officers soon flanked the house on three sides and readied themselves for a confrontation, Livingston said in his press conference. Finch appeared at the door to the house and, following verbal commands from the officers, stepped forward with his hands up. At numerous points, however, he reached for his waistband. Fearful that Finch was going for a firearm, an officer discharged one round, killing the father of two, said Livingston.
    [Bold mine]


What do you know about Andrew Finch? Do you know, for instance, that he is in the "lower echelons of society?"

Yes. I do see a pattern here. You jump to conclusions without a full arsenal of facts and/or understanding of reality.

Reaching for his waste band makes this all the more tragic.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 11:20:13 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You and all your friends know that cops are brutal morons, and they can feel your contempt for them. This contempt is a major part of the problem.

Because, of course, that's purely a a one way process: no cop has ever felt contempt for lefties who don't deserve to be protected by the benevolent police state: these stupid liberals are even worse than the niggers, who at least have the excuse that they're too stupid to know any better.

Thank you, you have just confirmed my view of the left's opinion of the police.


He is pointing out that the same RWNJs who keep saying 'libruls think all police r subhuman', also act like the cops are always right, absolved of all blame in every case, and downplay their mistakes/prejudices.
Thanks to the RWNJs, America is a place where absolutely everyone should probably be considered armed and dangerous... but that doesn't mean this is the first time somebody has swatted someone, or that only the asshole caller is to blame.


If either of you had any active rain cells you would have noticed that at no
time I have said that the cop was clearly justified. But of course since I have asked to see what actually happened I must want
to give the cop a pass since if you don't automatically know the cop is a murderer you are not open minded since the only reason
anyone becomes a cop is so they can get away with murder. Both of you knew the cop committed murder without getting any facts.


You have mental problems.
I SAID NO SUCH THING.

You didn't ask what actually happened, you don't care what actually happened, you just want to bash libruls for things that they haven't actually said or done.
Don't worry, no matter what happened, I guarantee the SWAT team won't be faulted in any way.

So you know the cop can get away with murder so who needs facts, and you think I should even consider that there is any chance
that you are fair minded?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 4:17:32 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
What is the world coming to when the police higher command have instilled as standard procedure to not even even bother properly vetting or questioning sufficiently the original caller before sending a heavily armed hair-trigger military-style squadron to somebody who's pissed somebody else off?

As has been pointed out already, "SWATting is most often done by those who DO know their intended victims. That's the whole point in the first place.

Like I said, police training and official procedure comes from policy bestowed from above.

Is it because they are actually that stupid, or is it that they have such animus toward the the lower echelons of society, and paid well enough for implementing just that?


See a pattern, here?

You haven't thought this one through much. Do you really want 911 operators to sit and try to "vet" the calls that come in, trying to figure out if the person on the line really has family members held at gunpoint or not? How awesome do you think that's going to go the first time somebody *thinks* it's a prank, but it's really not?

Then, it will be all about how police didn't respond and they get blamed for somebody killing their entire family. Does that sound like an improvement to you? How many actual Domestic Violence situations do you think will get ignored because people will be trying to figure out from the initial phone call whether somebody is in danger or not?



As long as nobody gets shot by the police it will be ok with him.
If that gets a dozen people killed because of inaction it will prove 2 things
to the cop haters.
1. The cops need to work faster.
2. Nobody should have weapons (particularly guns) anyway because the
(unarmed like in England) are there to protect them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 4:38:05 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
Got to love how the liberal anti cop fanatics are insisting on this being the officer's fault.

Does not matter that despite repeated warnings not to lower his hands, he kept doing so.

Does not matter than some shit for brains gamer in California made the call that got cops dispatched to an address with a false call of a hostage situation and one person already murdered.

Does not matter that with the information available, the police were responding to a crisis situation with one person already dead and had no way of knowing it was a prank call because someone in another state got pissed off at someone.

There are a couple of easy and logical solutions:

One, cctv cameras in every room in every house in the United States in order to verify any call that comes in.

Think that violates one or more of the first ten amendments though so....

Disband all local and state police forces and go with just federal law enforcement, thus eliminating state and local laws and settling on Federal statutes only, there is no way, after all, that any one could possibly abuse that power.

Or as one poster suggested, police wait until they are absolutely positive that the suspect is armed, that worked out real well in Colorado, but hey, one cop dead and few wounded is an easy price to pay, isnt it....

Unless you are the dead cop's family, but then they should have disowned the cop as soon as he put on a badge.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/1/2018 5:44:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Got to love how the liberal anti cop fanatics are insisting on this being the officer's fault.

Does not matter that despite repeated warnings not to lower his hands, he kept doing so.

Does not matter than some shit for brains gamer in California made the call that got cops dispatched to an address with a false call of a hostage situation and one person already murdered.

Does not matter that with the information available, the police were responding to a crisis situation with one person already dead and had no way of knowing it was a prank call because someone in another state got pissed off at someone.

There are a couple of easy and logical solutions:

One, cctv cameras in every room in every house in the United States in order to verify any call that comes in.

Think that violates one or more of the first ten amendments though so....

Disband all local and state police forces and go with just federal law enforcement, thus eliminating state and local laws and settling on Federal statutes only, there is no way, after all, that any one could possibly abuse that power.

Or as one poster suggested, police wait until they are absolutely positive that the suspect is armed, that worked out real well in Colorado, but hey, one cop dead and few wounded is an easy price to pay, isnt it....

Unless you are the dead cop's family, but then they should have disowned the cop as soon as he put on a badge.

The absurdity of the solutions do not matter as long as they can pretend that somehow the cops are at fault.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/8/2018 10:24:22 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Got to love how the liberal anti cop fanatics are insisting on this being the officer's fault.


"liberal" = "anti-cop." Is this your notion of 'astute observation'?

As for myself, I've managed to piss off a lot of 'standard liberals,' here, and I doubt they want me involved, from what I can tell.

Just can't avoid tripping over your own feet, can you?

quote:

Does not matter that despite repeated warnings not to lower his hands, he kept doing so.


Yes, this, exactly this. You've got that bass-ackwards, bro. The trained-to-be-frightened cops with bad eyesight bearing assault rifles noticed whatever the guy was doing already, (which wasn't a threat to anybody to that point) and used that as PC/pretense for street (hotel lobby, etc.) execution. That bitch in Oklahoma literally got away with murder, setting precedent for this asshole, for "not obeying a police order."

Somebody can be waving to a friend or to the air, but if a half-blind SWAT team shows up and says "Stop waving!" it's now a mortal threat to the militarily armed SWAT, because they fucking say so. Okay, I see where this is going.

I've looked it up, and I can't find where "not obeying a police order" is even a felony, much less a capital crime. No law in the land mandating or even suggesting execution.

No jury (of 'peers' or otherwise) has ever voted for conviction on that charge, nor has any judge or jury voted for the death sentence for such transgression, correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want skittish near sighted (not near enough, as it turns out) people armed with assault rifles administering justice on the spot rather than the legal system, that's your world. Don't expect anyone who respects the constitution or the law as laid out thereby to join you or anyone else in that venture.





< Message edited by Edwird -- 1/8/2018 10:30:07 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/8/2018 10:50:16 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You and all your friends know that cops are brutal morons, and they can feel your contempt for them. This contempt is a major part of the problem.

Because, of course, that's purely a a one way process: no cop has ever felt contempt for lefties who don't deserve to be protected by the benevolent police state: these stupid liberals are even worse than the niggers, who at least have the excuse that they're too stupid to know any better.

Thank you, you have just confirmed my view of the left's opinion of the police.


He is pointing out that the same RWNJs who keep saying 'libruls think all police r subhuman', also act like the cops are always right, absolved of all blame in every case, and downplay their mistakes/prejudices.
Thanks to the RWNJs, America is a place where absolutely everyone should probably be considered armed and dangerous... but that doesn't mean this is the first time somebody has swatted someone, or that only the asshole caller is to blame.


If either of you had any active rain cells you would have noticed that at no
time I have said that the cop was clearly justified. But of course since I have asked to see what actually happened I must want
to give the cop a pass since if you don't automatically know the cop is a murderer you are not open minded since the only reason
anyone becomes a cop is so they can get away with murder. Both of you knew the cop committed murder without getting any facts.


You have mental problems.
I SAID NO SUCH THING.

You didn't ask what actually happened, you don't care what actually happened, you just want to bash libruls for things that they haven't actually said or done.
Don't worry, no matter what happened, I guarantee the SWAT team won't be faulted in any way.

So you know the cop can get away with murder so who needs facts, and you think I should even consider that there is any chance
that you are fair minded?


I think you should consider that there is a good chance that you are incapable of having discussions of any kind with anyone at all.
You will just respond to whatever you feel like responding to, it doesn't matter if somebody actually says it or not.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/9/2018 7:29:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Got to love how the liberal anti cop fanatics are insisting on this being the officer's fault.

"liberal" = "anti-cop." Is this your notion of 'astute observation'?
As for myself, I've managed to piss off a lot of 'standard liberals,' here, and I doubt they want me involved, from what I can tell.
Just can't avoid tripping over your own feet, can you?


He could be making a distinction between liberal anticop fanatics, and non-liberal anticop fanatics, and/or liberals who are not anticop fanatics. I won't speak for him and specify exactly what he was saying, but there are other interpretations available.

quote:

quote:

Does not matter that despite repeated warnings not to lower his hands, he kept doing so.

Yes, this, exactly this. You've got that bass-ackwards, bro. The trained-to-be-frightened cops with bad eyesight bearing assault rifles noticed whatever the guy was doing already, (which wasn't a threat to anybody to that point) and used that as PC/pretense for street (hotel lobby, etc.) execution. That bitch in Oklahoma literally got away with murder, setting precedent for this asshole, for "not obeying a police order."
Somebody can be waving to a friend or to the air, but if a half-blind SWAT team shows up and says "Stop waving!" it's now a mortal threat to the militarily armed SWAT, because they fucking say so. Okay, I see where this is going.
I've looked it up, and I can't find where "not obeying a police order" is even a felony, much less a capital crime. No law in the land mandating or even suggesting execution.
No jury (of 'peers' or otherwise) has ever voted for conviction on that charge, nor has any judge or jury voted for the death sentence for such transgression, correct me if I'm wrong.
If you want skittish near sighted (not near enough, as it turns out) people armed with assault rifles administering justice on the spot rather than the legal system, that's your world. Don't expect anyone who respects the constitution or the law as laid out thereby to join you or anyone else in that venture.


He comes to the door and raises his hands after being ordered to do so. Then, he repeatedly reaches towards his waistband, and is repeatedly warned to not lower his hands and get them back up. He complies by raising his hands, only to start lowering them again.

If you're a cop going to potential murder/hostage/firearm situation, I bet you don't wait to see if he's just scratching an itch near his waist.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/9/2018 11:25:31 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
Don't give me this shit.

If I can't see from 2 feet away what the guy does or doesn't have around his waist after several minutes of back and forth, I have no business being a cop.

What's with all the drama, anyway?

In the old days, you come to arrest him, you turn him around or shove him to the floor, put the cuffs on,

Done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you're a cop going to potential murder/hostage/firearm situation, I bet you don't wait to see if he's just scratching an itch near his waist.


No, I don't. Any cop I know (and I've known some), that guy is already cuffed at first movement, if not before.
These guys were flaming idiots, end of story.

Again, what's with all the drama? "Obey my police order! Ahhhh!""He is not obeying my police order! Ahhhh!"

Just put on the cuffs NOW, if you have any idea at all what you're doing, and STFU.

Jebus.

I've seen a number of arrests, oftentimes with the arrested flailing about and ignoring whatever the police said. The police were used to this, made the cuff, carried on.

Don't give me this shit.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 1/9/2018 11:47:43 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 4:33:28 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you're a cop going to potential murder/hostage/firearm situation, I bet you don't wait to see if he's just scratching an itch near his waist.

You probably don't want to risk the possibility that he has a tiny little gun inside his wallet when you ask him for some ID as well.


_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 6:54:09 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Don't give me this shit.
If I can't see from 2 feet away what the guy does or doesn't have around his waist after several minutes of back and forth, I have no business being a cop.
What's with all the drama, anyway?
In the old days, you come to arrest him, you turn him around or shove him to the floor, put the cuffs on,
Done.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you're a cop going to potential murder/hostage/firearm situation, I bet you don't wait to see if he's just scratching an itch near his waist.

No, I don't. Any cop I know (and I've known some), that guy is already cuffed at first movement, if not before.
These guys were flaming idiots, end of story.
Again, what's with all the drama? "Obey my police order! Ahhhh!""He is not obeying my police order! Ahhhh!"
Just put on the cuffs NOW, if you have any idea at all what you're doing, and STFU.
Jebus.
I've seen a number of arrests, oftentimes with the arrested flailing about and ignoring whatever the police said. The police were used to this, made the cuff, carried on.
Don't give me this shit.


Right. You're assuming they were close enough to cuff him. Love it. Did the reports say the guy was shot at point blank range? If not, then you have no idea how close they were.

Dood, you're clearly out of your element.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 7:03:24 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
If you're a cop going to potential murder/hostage/firearm situation, I bet you don't wait to see if he's just scratching an itch near his waist.

You probably don't want to risk the possibility that he has a tiny little gun inside his wallet when you ask him for some ID as well.


If a cop asks to see your ID, I'm going to hazard a guess that they expect you to go for your wallet. They may even assume your wallet is in your back pants pocket. If a cop asks to see your ID and you very quickly reach for your waist, you might not like the response to that action.

Personally, I'd let the cop know where I'm reaching before I reach for my wallet. If I'm in my vehicle and asked for license and registration, I'm letting him know where both are before going after either one, and I'm doing so in a controlled and easy manner.

Unless a cop is asking you to do something unreasonable ('keep your hands up' or other commands to that effect aren't unreasonable), just do it. It's much better to not give a cop any reason to escalate force.

Edwird's beliefs would have people dead. In actual hostage/murder/firearm situations, people would be dead because he's still dicking around vetting the caller. If he does sent people to an actual hostage/murder/firearm situation, he's also getting cops dead because they won't be ready to act to defend themselves in worst-case situations.

It's tragic that an innocent man lost his life. It's tragic that his family is going to have to go on with a huge hole in their lives because some douchebag gamer from several states away threw a hissy fit and called in a fake emergency.

Instead of blaming the cops, why not blame the fucktard that made the call?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 7:45:20 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Instead of blaming the cops, why not blame the fucktard that made the call?


Because both are culpable for somebody getting shot for no good reason in this case.

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On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 9:44:30 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Instead of blaming the cops, why not blame the fucktard that made the call?


Because both are culpable for somebody getting shot for no good reason in this case.

Maybe, a grab for your waste band can = suicide . If he didn't that is another matter.
Of course you don't care, and I am a pro cop fanatic because I think details mater.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 9:56:11 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Instead of blaming the cops, why not blame the fucktard that made the call?

Because both are culpable for somebody getting shot for no good reason in this case.


I'm not so sure I agree with the cop's culpability. But.....

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

In the article is a video that includes the 8-second bodycam clip released by the PD, that shows the shot. While there is a graphic warning, the officer whose bodycam it is (who was right next to the shooter) is 40 yards away, so it's not a closeup (thankfully).

Mixed reviews, but more leaning towards the shooting being unjustified.

I'd love to have Edwird explain how the officers on scene would "turn him around or shove him to the floor, put the cuffs on" and be done.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 11:18:20 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Instead of blaming the cops, why not blame the fucktard that made the call?

Because both are culpable for somebody getting shot for no good reason in this case.


I'm not so sure I agree with the cop's culpability. But.....

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article193294019.html

In the article is a video that includes the 8-second bodycam clip released by the PD, that shows the shot. While there is a graphic warning, the officer whose bodycam it is (who was right next to the shooter) is 40 yards away, so it's not a closeup (thankfully).

Mixed reviews, but more leaning towards the shooting being unjustified.

I'd love to have Edwird explain how the officers on scene would "turn him around or shove him to the floor, put the cuffs on" and be done.



If you didn't "know" the cop was culpable as soon as you heard there was a shooting you are determined
to white wash the cop. I haven't declared the cop faultless but I haven't seen absolute proof either way.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 1/10/2018 11:40:23 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If you didn't "know" the cop was culpable as soon as you heard there was a shooting you are determined
to white wash the cop. I haven't declared the cop faultless but I haven't seen absolute proof either way.


I don't think we're ever going to get "absolute proof." I don't know that this bodycam video snippet is going to be able to sway anyone one way or the other, either. Some of the people in the article, though, seem like they would have some sort of experience in these cases, and there were some who were not all supportive that had been in or close to being in the cop's position before.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 60
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