Do slaves have the right to say no?

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Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:01:14 PM

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In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:04:55 PM

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Somehow this sounds like it is more of an opinion of this is what happened to you, rather thana general question.
However, in my personal case, when my boy asked me to stop something because he had a past history and the mere thought of it bothered him much less getting far enough to engage in the act, I did so. It was not becasue he was being rude or disrespectful, but the act scared and upset him t the point where it would no longer have been enjoyable. If both parties arent enjoying the act, even if the submissive party is in pain, then it really isnt worth doing.

My 2 cents, anyway

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:09:00 PM

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Do you drive your car without oil in it? While you have the right to do so that does not make it smart.

Same applies to any property, they all have limits of some sorts, Cars don't fly, Planes don't float, Hammers make lousy Pillows and vise versa. If you insist on using a piece of property in a manner beyond it's limits you are responsible for the damage.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:11:03 PM

DivinityWitheld

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Always, the real control of a relationship is in the subs, the sub draws the line, the sub normaly is allowing the dominant freedom, the only check to the freedom is the slaves word.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:11:58 PM

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Perhaps a better question might be: Why are you serving someone who wishes that? If you know/knew that in the entry phase of your relationship; why would things be different now? Or, is this really the realtionship you thought you were engaging in....or did the parameters change once you accepted? Or in the strictest sense of loose definitions here...does a 'slave' have any rights regarding anything....?
I believe in asking questions until the right one unlocks the real answer you seek.
Any thoughts?

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:12:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivinityWitheld

Always, the real control of a relationship is in the subs, the sub draws the line, the sub normaly is allowing the dominant freedom, the only check to the freedom is the slaves word.

But there is a difference between a "slave" and a "sub"

(in reply to DivinityWitheld)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:14:14 PM

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I disagree both parties have the right to walk, so the party who is most ready to walk that tends to have the control, regardless of which side of the d/s they are.

(in reply to DivinityWitheld)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:15:42 PM

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I believe Archer has the right idea for many question asked here...as well as many unbright behaviors created.

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:15:50 PM

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It sounds like you have issues regarding a mutual understanding of "consentual nonconsent", and should rediscuss it between yourselves. If you do not feel a little common sense and your well being are considerations of your master, that's even more reason for a discussion between yourselves.

It stands to reason the disputed logic/desire may extend to other play besides anal sex. Discussing your concerns with your master is in your best interests. If you signed on as a no limits slave then you may not be in a position to expect compromise.

_____________________________

"You may be right, I may be crazy... but I may just be the lunatic you're looking for!"

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:16:10 PM

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I agree with Archer. Both sides can say no at any point. There should be the mutual respect in the relationship t understand that if the slave doesnt want o do something, there is a reason. To push a slave to the point they are wiling to say no to you means there usually is a damn god reason they do so, and that should be taken into account. My boy is a slave, and I kow that he is obedient to a fault, so for him to say no, evne ifhe cannot immediately explain why, he hs his reasons for not wanting to or being able to do something. I simply get that reason.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Archer)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:21:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I agree with Archer. Both sides can say no at any point. There should be the mutual respect in the relationship t understand that if the slave doesnt want o do something, there is a reason. To push a slave to the point they are wiling to say no to you means there usually is a damn god reason they do so, and that should be taken into account. My boy is a slave, and I kow that he is obedient to a fault, so for him to say no, evne ifhe cannot immediately explain why, he hs his reasons for not wanting to or being able to do something. I simply get that reason.

DV

I would have thought that He would have known that it was important. I have NEVER said no to anything that He wanted. After all, He is the one who wakes me up kicking and screaming in the night.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:21:57 PM

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Now within the construct of my own "house" the slave has the basic options of
Obey
Question and ask for clarification
Express their desire not to do something, and ask that I reconsider
Walk

At any point along the way I may or may not change my order, they always have the walk option available, otherwise we have crossed the line from consensual slavery to kidnapping.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:23:57 PM

Kirei

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Choice is the balancer of control. We have to go to work to pay bills....we have the choice to not do so, not pay bills, skip work....we also can accept that control and then we get paid...can go on a nice vacation someplace, or buy that new toy. You always have choice....it just depends on how you wish to view it.

Koneko

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:25:38 PM

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Who cares about what the slave wants? However, if you are a fucking putz who is so insecure that you quake in fear about some sub topping you from below that you wouldn't want to stop fucking a girls ass despite the real risk of tearing her a new one, then the one who should have said no was the twits mother.

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:27:30 PM

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Well, since we are obviously talking abuot an actual experience here, what was his response?
Was there some idea in his head he was making you face your demons by forcing you to comply?
I would be conserned if he knew how emotionally damaging the act might be and he didnt care but for his own pleasure. I understand thats how many masters/mistresses think, and far be it for me to badmouth somenoe elses way of doing things. However, if you are going to destroy your pets trust in you by ignoring their needs in this matter, it might not be worth it.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Archer)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:30:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Well, since we are obviously talking abuot an actual experience here, what was his response?
Was there some idea in his head he was making you face your demons by forcing you to comply?
I would be conserned if he knew how emotionally damaging the act might be and he didnt care but for his own pleasure. I understand thats how many masters/mistresses think, and far be it for me to badmouth somenoe elses way of doing things. However, if you are going to destroy your pets trust in you by ignoring their needs in this matter, it might not be worth it.

DV

He said that i didnt matter, that what i want or felt made no difference. i am the slave, this is what he wants and he was gonna do it, so shut up and relax

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:31:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourkajira

In certain cases.

for example, you have a slave and you are interested in anal sex. you are not interested in lube, or whatever, and when you do (she obediently complies) the girl who has such a high pain tolerence begs you stop, because it hurts too much.Now, this is a girl who has been raped (on several different occurances) in the past and you know this. Do you tell her basically that she has no right to deny you something that you want, and do it anyway, especially if you are...um...well endowed and don't take it easy. So, do you stop or tell her to shut up?

Here, we get into the nitty gritty of what was (hopefully) discussed upfront. Then go from there. Keeping in mind the girl (property) is a living being, and hopefully, concerning a scenario such as this, some undertanding and compassionate judgement will come to mind, on the part of the Dom in question. i know if i were in that situation and i felt more harm would come to me BY my very act of obedience, then i would have to consider two things. Where did i put my brain when i picked the Dom, and where did i put my brain when i would even think about obeying something i KNEW would be harmful or toxic to my person Sorry, for me this one is a no brainer...

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:33:26 PM

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I would seriously consider talking to him about your feelings, and the fact that even as a slave, you are still a human being. If he understood that you had prior issues, then he should really respect that. However, if you have given him the idea that you believe the same way he does, that you are a slave and your opinions do not count, then part of this might in fact be your own doing. After al, a master that is given carte blanche from their slaves from day one should have no reasno to expect a limit to materailze out of thin air. Was this discussed as a possible issue before? Or did you give him the impression that no matter what he wanted you would never say no?

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Yourkajira)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:36:05 PM

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In general, if I've gotten to the point of having sex with them then we've usually established a fair degree of d/s. I'm of the opinion that preferences like how she is used sexually isn't her choice at that point and that is often consented to.

In cases like rape and sexual abuse, which is more common than many think, then I'm more willing to compromise. If someone has had a traumatic experience like rape, mishandling that situation can make it worse and while I like to think of myself as a genuine bastard at times, there are lines that I don't think decent people should cross. Making an experience like rape worse is one of them.

If it is physical pain, hurting a lot may not be a bad thing for someone who has been sexually assaulted. Physical pain is just a sensation. (Physical injury is another issue but that isn't on topic.) If having rough anal sex or something else is causing physiological stress, that is a judgment call. If I can turn that physiological stress to a positive end or at least something neutral, then I'll do that and continue. If the physiological stress becomes unhealthy or psychologically damaging, then that is where I am going to stop that and switch to something else.

A dominant/master/mistress/whatever can help a submissive/slave/kajira/whatever heal from psychological trauma and I hope they would use their power over them responsibly. I can delay or modify what I do when someone has a good, legitimate reason to do so. It isn't hard to do and if the only thing she can't handle after being raped on several occasions is painful anal sex, I'm going to consider us both pretty fortunate. That, and I do use some lube – it isn't like I need enough friction to start a campfire.

I'm all for sex with assholes; I'm not interested much in being one. If I'm involved with a slave she shouldn't have to say no. If I'm doing my part right, I'm going to know what is or is not good for her before then.

Joe
If you smoke after sex, you aren't using enough lube

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

RE: Do slaves have the right to say no? - 9/1/2006 11:37:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I would seriously consider talking to him about your feelings, and the fact that even as a slave, you are still a human being. If he understood that you had prior issues, then he should really respect that. However, if you have given him the idea that you believe the same way he does, that you are a slave and your opinions do not count, then part of this might in fact be your own doing. After al, a master that is given carte blanche from their slaves from day one should have no reasno to expect a limit to materailze out of thin air. Was this discussed as a possible issue before? Or did you give him the impression that no matter what he wanted you would never say no?

DV

i have always been a nolimits slave. i was always of the opinion that i would never be made to do something that was harmful for me in a way that i would want to stop. i dont even have a safeword. i have never wanted to say no. but i did here.

would that say something? or would it seem just stupid, or disobedient

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

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