RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 10:47:57 AM)

Hi pahunk - dont worry, I know its not anywhere near as bad as I'm supposing and that most Americans are really nice people!

I also understand the thing about illegals - we had one of our German partners go bankrupt because he was fined for having illegals in the trailer of his truck and the bastards had cut their way in and then got housing and benefit here whilst they were being processed. Hardworking guy gets screwed, illegals get no penalty at all. That was a few years ago now though, and things are different now.

Still there's a lot of groundswell antipathy against more and more immigrants of all sorts (illegals, asylum seekers and economic migrants) here - not because of racism, but simply because the country is full. We're running out of drinking water for goodness sake!

E



popeye1250 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 10:54:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Turning this round on its head. What if there was a US student over here in the UK who had outstayed their time..... and I ran them down because I was doing 60mph in a residential street with a 30mph limit.........

Would that be OK too? After all, the student shouldnt have been crossing the road.... 'cause she shouldnt have been here at all.....

E


Lady Ellen, yup, that would be ok too.
"CASE DISMISSED!"
If I were on a Jury in a case like this I;m simply not going to find the person "guilty."
Illegals sneaking into ANY country should realize that bad things can happen to them.



philosophy -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:05:38 AM)

"Illegals sneaking into ANY country should realize that bad things can happen to them."

...perhaps instead of deporting these people you could be allowed to legally kill them and use their organs for transplant maybe.......... Popeye, you are condoning the actions of a man who drove recklessly at an illegal speed and killed people. You seem to seriously believe that it is ok to simply kill illegal aliens. That is an attitude virtually indistinguishable from Nazi's burning Jews in big ovens. Human rights apply to all humans, regardless of legal status. What you have suggested is not American, it is barely human. i sincerely hope you are never in the position where you have to break a law, never so desperate that you have to cross a border to find work, never so unlucky as to need help from foreigners.



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:17:58 AM)

quote:

What you have suggested is not American
Indeed. I believe it to be anti-American. After all, America was based on immigration, has grown because of immigration and thrives with immigration. Most countries do.



MsSubMission -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:19:45 AM)

I'd like to know how driving 112mph is to be considered an "accident".  This officer was off-duty, correct?  Therefore, wouldn't everyday, ordinary laws, such as......driving within the speed limit apply to him as well?  Perhaps, even more so.  I'm quite sure he's busted more than a few people for doing the exact same thing.  While I have just as much of a problem as the next person with people being in this country illegally, the fact that someone, (police officer or not), consciously made the decision to drive at such an unsafe speed, and then wound up killing people as a result of it, it doesn't excuse the fact that he broke the law and there are people dead because of it.



Archer -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:29:19 AM)

Now lets take a look, If this was joe smoe from Idaho and he was speeding at 112 mph and hit a car, (NO alcohol involved) he'd get a citation and be sent home. Speeding has not generally been enough of a level of negligence to go for a manslaughter charge.
However, that being said, this guy is a cop he's supposed to know better than Joe Smoe, so is this a case where the level of neglience reaches the point of criminal? At the very least I'd think that the police force in question might shift him to "desk duty only" as a result of such a display of lackng good judgement. Also the lack of immediate arrest does not mean this guy is goin to get off without punishment, Grand Jury may indicte him if the DA files charges.



Chaingang -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:38:42 AM)

Archer and others:

Seriously, are you people from another planet? It's called "manslaughter" or "vehicular manslaughter." You don't get a pass for being a cop either. Here's a quick google to another sorta similar case: http://www.courttv.com/trials/gray_joseph/law.html

Speeding is often called "reckless" and I do think it is thought to reach the level of negligence as per the link:

125.12. Vehicular manslaughter in the second degree
A person is guilty of vehicular manslaughter in the second degree when he
1. commits the crime of criminally negligent homicide as defined in section 125.10, and either
2. causes the death of such other person by operation of a vehicle in violation of subdivision two, three or four of blah, blah, blah

Or here again:

vehicular manslaughter
n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.
http://dictionary.law.com/default2.Asp?selected=2212&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

That the car contained illegal aliens is largely immaterial.



philosophy -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:42:11 AM)

"If this was joe smoe from Idaho and he was speeding at 112 mph and hit a car, (NO alcohol involved) he'd get a citation and be sent home."

...even if he'd killed a car load of people? i seriously doubt that Archer, even in America.......but then you typed this........

"Speeding has not generally been enough of a level of negligence to go for a manslaughter charge"

...seriously? Killing someone by driving over the speed limit doesn't qualify automatically for a minimum of manslaughter?
i have heard that America is the home of car culture but that's simply ridiculous.




Chaingang -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:42:52 AM)

Philosophy:

The word you were seeking is "xenophobic."

xenophobic (adjective)
biased: nationalistic, nationalist, chauvinistic, gung-hoish, jingoistic, xenophobic



Chaingang -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:45:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...seriously? Killing someone by driving over the speed limit doesn't qualify automatically for a minimum of manslaughter?
i have heard that America is the home of car culture but that's simply ridiculous.


No, not seriously. These people are morons - they need to go back to "skool." I apologize for what passes as my countrymen.



philosophy -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 11:45:19 AM)

"The word you were seeking is "xenophobic." "

...i balked when i considered how it would be pronounced........



Archer -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 12:01:01 PM)

And how many are actually charged? Not many f the only negligence was speeding.
The law is there but the will to convict is lacking, It's rare that you get a conviction for manslaughter based soley on speeding past a jury.
Now they are begining to enforce it in work zones. But otherwise enforcement, prosecutions for it based only on speeding are not that high.

I'm not saying the cop didn't break the law technicly I'm saying that prosecutions for manslaughter based soley on speeding as the only negligence are not commonin comparrison to the deaths caused by speeding drivers.



Chaingang -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 12:15:16 PM)

Well, Archer - we don't have the original link but the suggestion was that the guy was removed from the scene. No doubt before a blood test, etc. If there were several fatalities this could well result in more than just a mere slap on the wrist.



Archer -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 12:23:34 PM)

I don't disagree with the general idea that this guy crosed the negligence line enough to warrant a grand jury appearance, I'm just saying as a nation we are still not all that willing to use speed as a solitary negligent factor to find people guilty of a felony.

40,916 deaths from auto accicdents (US 1994) if we assume that the study findings that say 90% of all accidents result from some form of negligence then we would have had 36,644 convictions for manslaughter based only on the vehicular statistics.
Personally I'd say over 90mph would be enough for me on a jury to find negligence for some form of manslaghter, and over 100mph a stronger version. But I'm afraid from my observation of driving habits on the freeways of this nation that I'd be in the minority in that view because people know that they drive too fast and they might be in that other chair someday.



popeye1250 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 2:27:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"Illegals sneaking into ANY country should realize that bad things can happen to them."

...perhaps instead of deporting these people you could be allowed to legally kill them and use their organs for transplant maybe.......... Popeye, you are condoning the actions of a man who drove recklessly at an illegal speed and killed people. You seem to seriously believe that it is ok to simply kill illegal aliens. That is an attitude virtually indistinguishable from Nazi's burning Jews in big ovens. Human rights apply to all humans, regardless of legal status. What you have suggested is not American, it is barely human. i sincerely hope you are never in the position where you have to break a law, never so desperate that you have to cross a border to find work, never so unlucky as to need help from foreigners.


Philosophy, yes they should all be deported!
I'll say it again, OUR government is out of control!
If they would secure our border and deport the people in this country who are not supposed to be here this wouldn't have happenned.
What type of job can you get where, if you don't feel like doing the job you simply don't do it and not get fired for it?

Philosophy, and since you mention "Human Rights" where are the "Human Rights" of the American People not to have our country invaded by illegal aliens?
Where is the U.N." about THAT issue?
It seems that only illegal aliens are entitled to have "Human Rights?"
Why isn't the "U.N." condemning Mexico and Central America?



Lordandmaster -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 2:30:15 PM)

You really believe that the cop wouldn't have hit someone else?

There are TWO problems here, and you're senselessly combining them.  One is the fact that we have illegal aliens in this country.  Want to complain about that one?  Fine, start a thread about it.  But you've done that before.

The OTHER problem is that we have an out-of-control cop who drives his car faster than he can control it.  People who can't control the cars they drive end up killing other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If they would secure our border and deport the people in this country who are not supposed to be here this wouldn't have happenned.



JerseyKrissi72 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 3:08:15 PM)

if you don't like the government.....run for president[;)] we all know how corrupt...I mean, now wonderful our government is



philosophy -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 3:48:23 PM)

"If they would secure our border and deport the people in this country who are not supposed to be here this wouldn't have happenned."

...plain wrong...you have utterly forgotten that the accident was not caused by anything the illegals had done. It was caused by an idiot who damn well ought to have known better driving too fast. If the illegals hadn't been there he'd have hit the car with a churchwarden and three pregnant women that i mentioned earlier. The cop was in the wrong, case closed, as you say......


"since you mention "Human Rights" where are the "Human Rights" of the American People not to have our country invaded by illegal aliens?
Where is the U.N." about THAT issue?
It seems that only illegal aliens are entitled to have "Human Rights?"
Why isn't the "U.N." condemning Mexico and Central America?"

......i am unsure as to the source of your anger on this issue. You seem to suggest that in order to obtain one human right you must deny another. This is a logical fallacy. The right to not have to put up with illegal aliens is not a human right, it is a right held by some humans who live in places with laws against that sort of thing. Human rights are much more basic things.....they include not being killed by cops who should know better, not having an entire region of the middle east turned into a glassy plain and the right to a basic level of justice, no matter who you are.
Your xenophobia burns so bright, it tends to overshadow other, more human, parts of your arguments.  





JerseyKrissi72 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 3:55:44 PM)

to me it sounds like it's okay to drive as fast as you want, mow down as many illegal aliens as you wanna so long as they are "illegal"..always check first[:'(] What if it were school children exiting school, would that make it ok? That's what this country is founded on.....kill as many illegal aliens as you want ...[8|]



popeye1250 -> RE: Off~Duty Vegas Highway Patrolman kiss Illegal Aliens while driving. (9/28/2006 5:06:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"If they would secure our border and deport the people in this country who are not supposed to be here this wouldn't have happenned."

...plain wrong...you have utterly forgotten that the accident was not caused by anything the illegals had done. It was caused by an idiot who damn well ought to have known better driving too fast. If the illegals hadn't been there he'd have hit the car with a churchwarden and three pregnant women that i mentioned earlier. The cop was in the wrong, case closed, as you say......


"since you mention "Human Rights" where are the "Human Rights" of the American People not to have our country invaded by illegal aliens?
Where is the U.N." about THAT issue?
It seems that only illegal aliens are entitled to have "Human Rights?"
Why isn't the "U.N." condemning Mexico and Central America?"

......i am unsure as to the source of your anger on this issue. You seem to suggest that in order to obtain one human right you must deny another. This is a logical fallacy. The right to not have to put up with illegal aliens is not a human right, it is a right held by some humans who live in places with laws against that sort of thing. Human rights are much more basic things.....they include not being killed by cops who should know better, not having an entire region of the middle east turned into a glassy plain and the right to a basic level of justice, no matter who you are.
Your xenophobia burns so bright, it tends to overshadow other, more human, parts of your arguments.  





"Xenophobia?" So, you want our speeding laws enforced but not our immigration laws?
And since when is it a "Human Right" to sneak into a foreign country unlawfully?



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