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RE: "Under My protection" - 10/25/2006 1:40:36 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I think Ron has pretty much summed up the dynamic at work here

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(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/25/2006 2:29:03 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

me--- drop by the house, sweetie.

Ron 


Are you talking to me?! 
I would need a protector from you, without a doubt.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/25/2006 4:35:21 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
I dont want someone running back to a second dominant person to get opinions on my commands.  But thats just me.

I hate to disagree, but I must - no, it's not just you.

Midnight Writer



Have to agree with this one.

If the submissive has to ask another Dominant about my decisions, who is s/he really submissive to?

And on a related note, I do not consider myself submissive to this other Dominant.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/25/2006 8:45:44 PM   
DevilsVendetta


Posts: 63
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		I've been in the situation of "Protector" but again, I didn't make any final decisions. The submissive simply came to me and asked advice, told me some of the things they had talked about. Help her tell the horny douchebags from the real Doms.

Having to go through him first is just ridiculous, the girl obviously isnt secure enough with herself, or mature enough for you to want her anyway.


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God is naught but the values that surround him, my honor is the only deity I will give lip service

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/25/2006 8:51:45 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I have mentored subs before, I suppose they could have bee considered under my protection.  I released them when I thought they were ready to find someone of their own. There was a strict understanding that once they had a Dom, without his/her permission, contact with me was severed. I would never step on someone elses toes.
No one is under consideration to me unless they are in line for a collar, and in the final stages of the relationship short of that commitment.  LoverForDomme was under consideration to me for a few months before I was able to see him face to face to collar him properly.  Mentoring and protecting share one thing, I never owned them.  I never had any plans on owning them, I was simply helping them learn what they needed to know.

DV

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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

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VampiresLair

(in reply to DevilsVendetta)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/26/2006 5:45:16 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Sometimes a sub just needs a friend. Either a Dom or experienced sub can be that friend. Occassonaly a sub will ask me to keep an eye on her at a play party. I don't screen people for her, but if she is being badgered I will hang with her for a while or she will join my date/sub and I. If she is playing, I'll poke my head in and make sure she is all right, but never cramp her style. If I percieve a problem as once happened...I'll ask the DM to stop the play and then go speak with her. I can't speak for on-line "protectors" because I don't go there much. Sounds like a bit of a joke to me.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/28/2006 5:37:08 PM   
onlythewindknows


Posts: 259
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		eek i feel like shit now.

i guess it is just me, but as i use it. "protection" is a high protocol way of saying "i just broke up with an asshole and my best friend is spanking me occasionally so i don't jump into the sack with the next asshole who comes along just cause i want my ass beat but it won't last TOO long maybe 6-12 months so bear with me."

it isn't a time to find new partners.

pardon my vulgar language .

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/28/2006 5:54:06 PM   
onlythewindknows


Posts: 259
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		Hey you know what? Now that i think of it, i have given advice to Dom friends not to get involved with certain subs, and they have welcomed (and acted on) my advice.

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/28/2006 8:02:58 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

So, can anyone explain the dynamic here? 


I have no idea what the situation would be for others.  If someone who was dear to me asked me for my protection, and I gave that person my word?  They would receive my protection.

If that means talking to other potential dominants to see what their level of experience is, who they might know locally and who they have played with, and what understanding they have of basic consent and safety issues?  Fine. 

Even more importantly, a submissive who can say he/she is "protected" is letting potential predators know that he/she is not alone and unsupported in the community.  These negotiations are not going on in a vacuum; the sub has friends, and there will be accountability for any violations of trust or consent.

Protection is a standard practice in any situation where someone is meeting a stranger in a sexual context for the first time.  It is considered a standard safety measure for vanilla sex hook-ups:  always make sure that a third party knows where you are going, who you are going to be with, and roughly when you are expected back.  Giving a third party the full contact information of the person you are meeting is normal and is simply considered a smart thing to do.

I fail to see why these basic measures are suddenly dumb or laughable just because the sex involved is kinkier and more physically dangerous.  It's a well known fact that predators always look for the safest, most convenient prey:  the subs that are alone, socially isolated, without help, guidance, or recourse, who are vulnerable and defenseless--that's what they're really looking for.

--M

< Message edited by Morrigel -- 10/28/2006 8:04:13 PM >

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/28/2006 8:20:36 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you, Morrigal. When I was ready to tentatively step into my local community I needed to know that there were people who would protect me. I *knew* I was naive, new, and very vulnerable. I am one of those people who managed to reach adulthood without learning some of the self-protective things most kids learn in their early teens. (Long story.) When I started reading about this on-line and joining groups, I managed to find the most extreme people out there. That's VERY scary when you are brand-new. I had no clue what I would be walking into the first time I went to TIES (Hi, Midnight Rider!) so I made sure there would be people there that I knew who would help me if I went into a panic. I didn't though I shook the whole time I was there.

I've come a long way in the year since I started attending local community events. The 3-4 years I spent on-line and learning about WIIWD helped a lot too, especially since I had mentors who helped me understand what I was reading.

A mentor or a protector can be very useful for someone who is scared spitless but trying to come up with the courage to take the first step. I appreciate every one who has helped me get to this point. But I wouldn't be this confident in these kinds of situations if I hadn't had a protector who eased me into the community.

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 4:15:57 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		"protection" is a high protocol way of saying "I just can't deal with my life on my own and need a big, powerful dominant to help me, because I'm....helpless".

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to onlythewindknows)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 5:16:09 AM   
onlythewindknows


Posts: 259
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		i really think there are a bunch of cases that someone really does need friend(s) looking out for them.  a lot of people are being weirdly harsh here.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 6:18:51 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

i guess it is just me, but as i use it. "protection" is a high protocol way of saying "i just broke up with an asshole and my best friend is spanking me occasionally so i don't jump into the sack with the next asshole who comes along just cause i want my ass beat but it won't last TOO long maybe 6-12 months so bear with me."


What  earthly reason could I have for wanting to know who (or what) beats your ass until you are mine.
What business is it of anybody's who's ass I beat in my free time, other than the beatee's of course.
If you are not actively looking at the moment then one simply has to say so. There is no need to explain to anyone why one is not. It matters not one whit if the reason is you are taken, on the rebound, re-evaluating your place in the lifestyle, or busy packing your house for an upcoming transfer to the company office in Timbuktu. If you are not "available" you are not available.
quote:


i really think there are a bunch of cases that someone really does need friend(s) looking out for them.  a lot of people are being weirdly harsh here.

don't think it is the idea of having friends to run things by that is the issue, I think it is the strange need to announce to the world that you have friends you discuss these things with, and who they are.

To me, an "under the protection of" announcement reads like: I am friends with Sir BigBad Domlier-than-thou, and if you annoy me you will have to deal with him.  Well guess what, unless he is willing to murder or to harm seriously maim somebody, then somebody's protector is going to actually protect them about as much as toilet paper will prtect one from the rain.
A cyber protector has no power or way to enforce said protection. I could abuse a "protected" sub just as easily as an unprotected sub, if I were so inclined.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to onlythewindknows)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 6:31:10 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

i really think there are a bunch of cases that someone really does need friend(s) looking out for them.  a lot of people are being weirdly harsh here.


There are cases where Doms, parading as "protector" or "mentor" can use this to abuse women who are naive and think that these Doms are actually going to help them.  I think if someone is too weak to handle the lifestyle without protection they need to rethink their reasons for being in it. 


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to onlythewindknows)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 6:34:11 AM   
sarasmilesss


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline 		hi my name is sara, otherwise known as "helpless and unable to handle my own life..." i am a single mother of 3 teenagers, productive citizen, careerwoman, friend to many that yes even seek this one' advice at times. AND... have been under the protection of Another before.

i am talking realtime here not cyber, cyber has never been my thing so i can not offer input on something i have no understanding of. With that said, i am one that is an extremely trusting soul, i try to always find the good in someone and often times give the benefit of the doubt way to often, it is this personailty trait that got me into a situation that was not all that good for me. And before conclusions are drawn i am one that doesn't jump into something nor am i someone that changes Doms like articles of clothing. Those that knew me well would never have guessed i would have fallen into the type of situation i did. Everyone makes mistakes and EVERYONE has bad judgement calls at least outside this board. With that said, after i got out of that paticular situation i took awhile by myself to heal and get my strength back. Once i decided i was ready to get active again in the local bdsm community, here in Atlanta, i went under the protection of a VERY close friend that had LOTS of experience. Why? because although i was ready to start out again, amongst my friends,i was still filled with fear and self doubt in my ability to see ALL the red flags in someone. He offered to help me with that. He didn't dictate who i spoke too nor did He dictate if ultimately i met anyone AND He certainly didn't advise me on all other  aspects of my life.

There came a time when i started talking to a Dominant that wanted to meet i asked Him if He would talk to this Person and why. His response was "Of course He would as He had no problem with that... He had nothing to hide and liked the fact that i had such close friends." He proceeded to give me not only His email but His telephone numbers to pass on to this Dominant. Telling me to tell Him "He looked forward to His call." Now reading the previous posts by some, on this topic, i have to wonder if He was secretly submissive and thats why He didn't mind talking, or as some see it, "controlled" by that Dom in regards to talking to me. It certainly couldn't have been because...
He saw nothing but the genuine act of friendship

i think we run on dangerous ground when we put blanket statements out there. Just because someone is under Another's protection doesn't mean they aren't capable functioning adults that can think for themsevles. Not everything is black and white and sometimes i think we in this "life" place more judgement then someone would get in the vanilla world. i hate to think someone came here seeking knowledge only to find judgement.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 7:38:20 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To me, an "under the protection of" announcement reads like: I am friends with Sir BigBad Domlier-than-thou, and if you annoy me you will have to deal with him.  Well guess what, unless he is willing to murder or to harm seriously maim somebody, then somebody's protector is going to actually protect them about as much as toilet paper will prtect one from the rain.


There are two false assumptions here.

1)  You assume that the "protector" is always incapable of maiming or killing on behalf of the one to whom their protection was given.  In my case, and probably in many others, you would be sadly mistaken.  I have no compunction about killing or crippling for life any person who rapes or murders a friend of mine.  I would do it in a heartbeat and then go eat chow mein without a single qualm of conscience.

2)  You assume that the fact that a third party will be able to identify you by name, address, phone number and general description  if a sub is raped or disappears? Has no impact on the plans of the average future rapist or murderer.  You are mistaken.  Most people who do bad things do NOT want to get caught by the police--much less by someone who, if she and her friends catch up with him first, will do things to him that would make Idi Amin puke into his hat. 

--M

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 8:45:50 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sarasmilesss

i think we run on dangerous ground when we put blanket statements out there. Just because someone is under Another's protection doesn't mean they aren't capable functioning adults that can think for themsevles. Not everything is black and white and sometimes i think we in this "life" place more judgement then someone would get in the vanilla world. i hate to think someone came here seeking knowledge only to find judgement.



But the thing is quite literally that if you are using someone else to filter through your decisions on who to date it DOES mean that you at least don't believe that you can actually pick someone appropriately.  For better or for worse the choice to seek someone to filter through decisions on who to date does say how you regard and trust your own judgement and decision making ability.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to sarasmilesss)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 8:51:29 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am pretty much in agreement with this, other than the chow mein thing. Ribeye would be more my style.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 9:11:37 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah.  Basically, I cannot answer for the cases that other people are bringing up, where the sub behaves as if she cannot make a decision on her own at all, or the dom is acting like a crazy territorial douchebag.  For me, "protection" is simply about establishing third party accountability.  I think it is a powerful tool to dissuade would-be predators from hurting a sub you care about.  You don't have to regard the sub as your personal property to care what happens to them, and that others treat them right.

That's how I would assume the "protection" within the community is supposed to work, and I hope that subs who use it as a self-defense tool will recognize that the dom who is "protecting" them is not in charge of them.  Even if I'm trying to protect someone, I cannot make decisions for them per se.  If a friend gives you a warning or expresses concern, fine--but ultimately it's your life, you've got to follow your own instincts in the end.

Anyway, I would tend to treat "protection" as a way of persuading the Wrong Kind of People that they could pick a better target, if they have bad intentions.  You don't have to spend long in the life style to know that a lot of people do have bad intentions, and think that it's Open Season on the submissives in our midst.  I have seen and witnessed a few horror stories in which both male and female subs were badly hurt by people they tried to meet for play.  Whatever I can do, to keep that from happening to someone I care about?  I will do.

--M

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "Under My protection" - 10/29/2006 9:24:54 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onlythewindknows

i really think there are a bunch of cases that someone really does need friend(s) looking out for them.  a lot of people are being weirdly harsh here.

I agree with you.  Before I met my Master I was a weak and emotionally battered person.  I was not under anyone's "protection," but I had a dominant male friend who finally told me, "PLEASE, before you consider submitting to anyone else again, talk to me about it first."

I was one of those people who couldn't make good decisions for myself.

I was one of those people who allowed myself to be hurt by online personalities.

I was one of those people everyone on this thread is basically saying "not worth bothering with."

And I wasn't worth bothering with.

Yet along came this man, you see. A rather wise and experienced man at that.  And he saw in me what no one else did...and what I certainly did not see.  He saw the statue inside the marble block, and he began carving, knocking out unwanted blocks, buffing out the rough spots, using calculated finesse, until he brought out what he now considers a magnificent piece of art. 

Everyone else told me I had no value.  Everyone else told me I needed to grow the hell up (and I did).  But he brought out the goodness.  He chose to make the investment, knew exactly what he was doing, and now has exactly what he wants - a slave who is completely devoted to him, completely adores him, and happily gives him what he demands.

It's all a matter of spotting a diamond in the rough.  It's all a matter of wanting to bother, or wanting someone who is already "there."  In my case, Master is quite proud of his work, and looks at me with pride in my work, too.  It worked for us.

(in reply to onlythewindknows)
Profile   Post #: 60
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