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RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:17:17 AM

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quote:

However I do disagree on the first part of your post about no limits. In my opinion no limits does not mean that you acomplish the task necessarily, but that you obey the command. Yes death limits the completion of the task, however a no-limits slave would obey and follow thru with the order until death occured stopping them, where as somebody with limits would not even attempt the order because they would not cross their limits of no death or possible harm.

I believe that obedience is the differance and perhaps is actually the discussion rather than no-limits or limts.

this I agree with

To the OP:

Wonderful post; thankyou for sharing.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Gem)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:34:28 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

However I do disagree on the first part of your post about no limits. In my opinion no limits does not mean that you acomplish the task necessarily, but that you obey the command. Yes death limits the completion of the task, however a no-limits slave would obey and follow thru with the order until death occured stopping them, where as somebody with limits would not even attempt the order because they would not cross their limits of no death or possible harm.

I believe that obedience is the differance and perhaps is actually the discussion rather than no-limits or limts.

this I agree with

To the OP:

Wonderful post; thankyou for sharing.

I tend to agree as well. Of course we all have limits as to what we can do.... you can't bench press 2,000 pounds, no matter how strong the will, or the body.

But there can be limits, or the lack thereof, as far as willingness to try. And I believe that if one has no limits, that does not mean they will be that way with just anyone, in the same way that one does not have to submit to everyone in order to be a submissive. *places a big ass flashing light here in hopes the HNGs get a clue*

I will say this, with the utmost respect, that I think that anyone that genuinely has no limits, has issues. Boy, I sat there a minute coming up with that . And they may need help.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:39:11 AM

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There is not much I can add to your post except to say I suppose one should not speak in infinitives on anything otherwise someone will come along and be the one case that they did not expect. So never, always, and forever are probably not wise words...

I still think that most people have limits, and that is a good and healthy thing, since if you have any limits they are very few Celeste, I am so glad you have someone that has them for you. Sometimes we get what we need from the most unexpected places.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:46:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

However I do disagree on the first part of your post about no limits. In my opinion no limits does not mean that you acomplish the task necessarily, but that you obey the command. Yes death limits the completion of the task, however a no-limits slave would obey and follow thru with the order until death occured stopping them, where as somebody with limits would not even attempt the order because they would not cross their limits of no death or possible harm.

I believe that obedience is the differance and perhaps is actually the discussion rather than no-limits or limts.

this I agree with

I tend to agree as well. Of course we all have limits as to what we can do.... you can't bench press 2,000 pounds, no matter how strong the will, or the body.

Ok...I guess I have to clarify. I agree that obedience is important...but if it is not the goal and completion of the task is...then as Level pointed out (and I attempted to) our physical (or mental) capabilities ARE a limit.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Level)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:48:00 AM

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quote:

I will say this, with the utmost respect, that I think that anyone that genuinely has no limits, has issues. Boy, I sat there a minute coming up with that . And they may need help.

That's where I fit in all of this. I think it's good to have boundaries. I think it's a way of protecting ourselves (and those whom we are responsible for) and that is a good thing.

It is interesting to hear how people get to a "no limits" mindset.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Level)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:51:24 AM

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Dearest Celeste,

Thank you for your writing. I simply do not have the ability to put the proper words in order to express the many ways and the depth in which your words can touch me and give me new ways to think.

I cannot lie and say that I understand based on any personal childhood experience. I do however have friends that have had terrible childhoods and relationships. In talking to them about their lives and in reading words like yours I have come to understand so much better. It is my hope that it make me a better friend in addition to potential relationship partner.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:51:28 AM

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~fast reply~

I am going to add my spin on this.

As a slave I do have limits, everyone does, and I firmly believe that.   However, with that said, I can honestly say that where Master is concerned, and strictly within our relationship, I have no limits.

I say this because Master and I are on the exact same page, and I know He would never ask/order me to do something that is outside my capabilities, values, morals etc.   His thinking is the same as mine, and we tend to like and dislike pretty much the same things, and so within our relationship, i trust Him to not cross that line.

So, just to sum up what I said, outside our relationship I have limits, inside our relationship, I don't.

Does that make sense??   I am on brain overload right now.

~aurora~

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:53:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

When I say I have no limits, it's because "I" don't. It has nothing to do with Himself... He knows I have no limits and it's one of the reasons that he's pretty careful with how he speaks to me because I do take him literally and he knows if he gives me a command, I'm going to do exactly what he says. I was trained that way a long time ago and the training took.

For people who want to believe that 'everyone' has limits .. keep believing it.

You get to a point where you actually can't say no anymore. Not won't, not don't.. can't. Get it? Not everyone who jumps into the leather vats does so from a healthy place. If we're lucky, we can get fairly healthy again, but sometimes there are things you can't ever get back ...

I want to answer this since just yesterday I addressed the concept of "no limits" in another thread. There I said, "the vast majority have limits of some sort." I still believe this. The ability to have limits is itself a mark of mental health -- the ability to define one's own "I'll never do that" boundries is essential to human survival. Still, I'm well aware that there are people like Celeste who lost that ability due to circumstances in life. I have a good friend who describes herself as "having no brakes" as a result of similar early experiences - it's seen her join the British Army and engage in some of the most dangerous missions allowed (not to mention the many personal risks she's taken both in and out of a BDSM context). There's no pretense, though, that this is in any way healthy.

Being with someone who understands the situation and protects/doesn't take advantage certainly allows one the possibility of a happier life (a life at all, really), but it isn't IMO an optimal answer to the core issue: that a person who genuinely has no limits may see themselves as unworthy of saying "no." I don't mean to speak for you, Celeste, or anyone else in this situation, honestly. I would, however, ask "What do you think would happen if you were to say no to a command?" In your head make it a command as minor or as extreme as you like, but imagine yourself saying "no." What happens?

Fodder for the journal, perhaps.

~Holly

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I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:54:36 AM

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From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I will say this, with the utmost respect, that I think that anyone that genuinely has no limits, has issues. Boy, I sat there a minute coming up with that . And they may need help.

That's where I fit in all of this. I think it's good to have boundaries. I think it's a way of protecting ourselves (and those whom we are responsible for) and that is a good thing.

It is interesting to hear how people get to a "no limits" mindset.

Now see, this is where I draw my own 'mind set". In my thinking, there is a difference between the two words; limits and boundaries.

Limits, to me, are something that are physically set; ie physical limitations.
Boundaries are those that you set in your mind as being unethical, immoral, or just those things that a person will absolutly NOT do for any reason. etc.

With my first master and with my current Master, LIMITS were never 'discussed' in detail. They both know what I am physcially capable of.

With my first Master, boundaries were discovered through the course of our relationship. With Master now, it is the same. We discussed some personal boundaries that each of us had, agreed upon them; but I can honestly say that there are MANY that have yet to be discovered.

Just my opinion though.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 6:56:07 AM

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Agreed that one shouldn't enter the BDSM life seeking a replacement for therapy. In many many cases, profession al help IS the answer and fair play and good luck to them.

To ChaOz, I'd say that there is perhaps an experience you haven't had that others have, myself included - from a different angle to others that have posted here.

I am in the fortunate and privileged position of being able to help someone in the way that Celeste and Gem are talking about and I can tell you from an observers point of view that it is plain and obvious that my girl certainly does face her problems and deal with them.

she is doing so admirably, even to the point of being able to forgive one abuser and look the other in the face, something she hasn't ever been able to do before. She even manages now to resist the continued attempts at mental abuse dealt out by her father.

She's had therapy, by the way. Despite the fact that she relishes the chance to talk about her past, she found the situation limiting and unhelpful.

For some it's the answer, for others, it's just another waste of time - just as the trial by fire that comes with an emotional, limit-stretching scene.

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to Gem)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:03:53 AM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora

~fast reply~

I am going to add my spin on this.

As a slave I do have limits, everyone does, and I firmly believe that.   However, with that said, I can honestly say that where Master is concerned, and strictly within our relationship, I have no limits.

I say this because Master and I are on the exact same page, and I know He would never ask/order me to do something that is outside my capabilities, values, morals etc.   His thinking is the same as mine, and we tend to like and dislike pretty much the same things, and so within our relationship, i trust Him to not cross that line.

So, just to sum up what I said, outside our relationship I have limits, inside our relationship, I don't.

Does that make sense??   I am on brain overload right now.

~aurora~

Hello, aurora. I would say that you do have limits in your relationship... what if he changed, and asked you to do something horrific? I certainly believe you if you say he would not do so, but to me, that is not a case of no limits, because if he did change, I suspect you would discover those limits.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to slaveaurora)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:08:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Hello, aurora. I would say that you do have limits in your relationship... what if he changed, and asked you to do something horrific? I certainly believe you if you say he would not do so, but to me, that is not a case of no limits, because if he did change, I suspect you would discover those limits.

Hi Level,
Every time I see this question posed, the answer that comes to my mind is that if he changed that drastically, I would be in a relationship with someone other than whom I started out with. Therefore I would be in a different relationship and then everything in it changes, quite possibly including "limits."

(in reply to Level)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:10:39 AM

Posts: 157
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora

~fast reply~

I am going to add my spin on this.

As a slave I do have limits, everyone does, and I firmly believe that.   However, with that said, I can honestly say that where Master is concerned, and strictly within our relationship, I have no limits.

I say this because Master and I are on the exact same page, and I know He would never ask/order me to do something that is outside my capabilities, values, morals etc.   His thinking is the same as mine, and we tend to like and dislike pretty much the same things, and so within our relationship, i trust Him to not cross that line.

So, just to sum up what I said, outside our relationship I have limits, inside our relationship, I don't.

Does that make sense??   I am on brain overload right now.

~aurora~

Hello, aurora. I would say that you do have limits in your relationship... what if he changed, and asked you to do something horrific? I certainly believe you if you say he would not do so, but to me, that is not a case of no limits, because if he did change, I suspect you would discover those limits.

Level,

You are exactly right about that, and I can't dispute it. I would never do anything "horrific" as you put it.
I guess I was speaking of our relationship as it is right now, and I am completely comfortable in it. If that were to change, I would indeed discover those limits.

Thank you for pointing that out. :)

~aurora~

(in reply to Level)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:12:55 AM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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FR

I wanted to make a comment about therapy and the way it is being discussed in this thread, as though it is a cure-all for everything that ails you. I have a bad set of anxiety genes in my family, so I have tried therapy.. it does not work for everyone. Just because one way of getting mentally well and emotionally well failed does not mean this is the only way of finding peace and healing.

Therapy is NOT a panacea. Some people are worse off for the therapy they undertake than they were before it occurred. I am not saying that BDSM is a panacea for what ails people either, but loving relationships and connectedness to others can be more healing than all the therapy in the world. Love can move mountains. Sometimes nothing we can do will "fix" us, but we learn how to exist in a relatively happy manner.

As far as Celeste goes and her mental health, the questions that any therapist asks are do your emotional problems impact the quality of your life on a day to day basis? Can you function within your life in a reasonable manner. She seems pretty satisfied with the life Himself has built with her... the amount of pain she has endured and still feels at time is something I can relate to on some levels, but not because I was abused as a child though, but because of the losses I suffered as one. Life happens, life hurts, we grow, we heal, we endure... if we are lucky. Healing does not have to come on a shrink's couch, it can come in the form of a loving relationship in which one is valued. I do not know why people do not embrace the healing properties of love and acceptance more readily than we do.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Fitznicely)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:16:25 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Hello, aurora. I would say that you do have limits in your relationship... what if he changed, and asked you to do something horrific? I certainly believe you if you say he would not do so, but to me, that is not a case of no limits, because if he did change, I suspect you would discover those limits.

Hi Level,
Every time I see this question posed, the answer that comes to my mind is that if he changed that drastically, I would be in a relationship with someone other than whom I started out with. Therefore I would be in a different relationship and then everything in it changes, quite possibly including "limits."

Good morning, my friend ...... I believe I understand your view, and I think we're on the same page.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:16:41 AM

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Joined: 10/13/2006
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Interesting thread.

I usually find that the "limits" of any situation are imposed and controlled by me. Submissives seem to have a certain plasticity to them, which makes them able to adapt to different dominants in different ways. In any case, the more the person is emotionally involved with me, the fewer limits they seem to have and the more they seem to shape themselves to please me. This is why I tend to regard myself as responsible for the welfare of those who submit to me--in the scene, if we are playing briefly, and in the relationship if we are involved.

--M

(in reply to Level)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:19:17 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Interesting thread.

I usually find that the "limits" of any situation are imposed and controlled by me. Submissives seem to have a certain plasticity to them, which makes them able to adapt to different dominants in different ways. In any case, the more the person is emotionally involved with me, the fewer limits they seem to have and the more they seem to shape themselves to please me. This is why I tend to regard myself as responsible for the welfare of those who submit to me--in the scene, if we are playing briefly, and in the relationship if we are involved.

--M

I believe this is known psychological/medical circles as the "Gumby Affect" in male submission - and, if it is a female submissive - it is the "Pokey Affect".

Either way, characterizing it with playdough seemed an appropriate response!
;)
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to Morrigel)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:19:48 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveaurora

~fast reply~

I am going to add my spin on this.

As a slave I do have limits, everyone does, and I firmly believe that.   However, with that said, I can honestly say that where Master is concerned, and strictly within our relationship, I have no limits.

I say this because Master and I are on the exact same page, and I know He would never ask/order me to do something that is outside my capabilities, values, morals etc.   His thinking is the same as mine, and we tend to like and dislike pretty much the same things, and so within our relationship, i trust Him to not cross that line.

So, just to sum up what I said, outside our relationship I have limits, inside our relationship, I don't.

Does that make sense??   I am on brain overload right now.

~aurora~

Hello, aurora. I would say that you do have limits in your relationship... what if he changed, and asked you to do something horrific? I certainly believe you if you say he would not do so, but to me, that is not a case of no limits, because if he did change, I suspect you would discover those limits.

Level,

You are exactly right about that, and I can't dispute it.    I would never do anything "horrific" as you put it.
I guess I was speaking of our relationship as it is right now, and I am completely comfortable in it.   If that were to change, I would indeed discover those limits.

Thank you for pointing that out. :)

~aurora~

You're welcome, and let me say that none of the comments I've posted here are meant to demean or disrupt anyone's relationship; you have my thanks for taking my posts so graciously.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to slaveaurora)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:20:17 AM

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Healing does not have to come on a shrink's couch, it can come in the form of a loving relationship in which one is valued. I do not know why people do not embrace the healing properties of love and acceptance more readily than we do.

What a great post, Julia. I agree with all of it. I went the therapy route, and it only got me so far. I went the rest of the stretch with someone who knows me like no one else could, and who had a vested interest in my positive outcome, and who cares very much for me and my well being. Therapy is wonderful for many, many people. But it is not necessarily the be-all, end-all answer for everyone.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Everyone has limits." - 11/5/2006 7:20:50 AM

Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

I believe this is known psychological/medical circles as the "Gumby Affect" in male submission - and, if it is a female submissive - it is the "Pokey Affect".

And when the dominant is evil, it's the "Mr. Bill and Sluggo" effect?

--M

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

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