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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 6:32:33 AM   
kyraofMists


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I have read most of this thread and my thoughts and feelings are quite different than most.  I don't "feel submissive".  For me, submission is an action or behavior.  I am obedient to him so I am submissive to him.  In being obedient, there are a wide variety of physical, mental and emotional reactions.  I feel some of the same things that others have described as "feeling submissive" but there are also moments when I am obedient that I feel despair, empty, used up, invisible and other things that do not generate or stem from positive feelings.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 7:26:38 AM   
timeoutgurlie


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Tingley, light, almost something of the sky if that makes any sense, and my blood is either being distributed differently, faster/slower, or I'm just suddenly more aware of how it feels inside my body especially under/through my skin.

Sounds strange to see it in text

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 7:57:44 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
"It makes me feel submissive when ..."

"This person makes me feel submissive ..."


What I'd like to hear about are those feelings, themselves.


What does it feel like, for you--before, during, or after any actual interaction which might yield further sensations, to just "feel submissive"?


Noah, these are excerpts from posts that I previously made where I attempted to describe those feelings as I experience them:

quote:

  There is a feeling that I have gotten from the Dominants who I have been with in my life that I am at a loss for a name for. In talking with other submissives I have found that I am certainly not the only one who gets this feeling, although I have never heard an actual name put to it.

It is the feeling that you get when you are chatting and laughing with your girlfriends at a munch and your Dominant walks up and strokes your hair, the feeling that you get when your eyes meet from across a crowded room, the feeling that you get when you are hurrying around waiting for Him to come home with butterflies in your stomach...and He walks in and puts His arms around you, the feeling you get when you're balancing the checkbook and he comes up and strokes your cheek......the list goes on and on.

The only way that I can really describe the feeling with any accuracy is to say that it is very much like the feeling that you get when you sit down to nurse a baby and that intense calm comes over you when the oxytocin is released into your body. It is like you can feel your mind stop racing, your heart rate and breathing slow and you become enveloped by a calm and serene cloud. It is sometimes as profound as a shot of valium.

I have always described the feeling as a "settling into place", because quite often it comes at a time when I am pre-occupied with anything other than submission, and it instantly puts me into "submissive mode". The feeling is one of settling down or dropping...but not as in sub drop.



And on subspace:

quote:

  
For me, I refer to subspace as that point at which I take flight during a scene and the flight itself. During this time I am not able to communicate, I am not in touch with reality, I can not control my movements. I am in la la land, drooling on myself, lost in a world of colored mist and sensation, muscles convulsing and twitching uncontrollably. I come back into reality in bits and pieces slowly and for a few hours after I am riding the euphoria of that endorphin high.
 
Subpsace for me always comes during a scene or at times, it has even been triggered by just really great sex. Externally I am told that it is like this. If I am being scened, when I enter subspace my body relaxes and goes slack, I no longer respond to painful stimuli, my eyes are no longer focused, my pupils dilate and I get a very calm and serene look about me. I can't really respond verbally at this point. Every touch can generate an orgasm, even a stroke on my cheek.

Internally, it is very calm. It is like being enveloped by a cool mist. Color perception is different and I very frequently see things in shades of purple. Quite frequently there is a sensation of water running over me. There have been times when I can see the room, including myself, as if I am looking down from above. Mentally I am very foggy, kind of like after a good dose of morphine....lol. As I begin to come back down, I generally get a case of the shakes. The world comes back into focus in bits and pieces. I am very much in need of a warm blanket, a good cuddle and quite frequently I am extremely tired, although there are exceptions to that as there have been times when I have bounced up like I am ready to run a marathon, excitedly chattering and giggly. The effects can last for several hours after....sometimes even longer....and it would not be a good time for me to drive a car or operate heavy machinery...lol. Although, I may seem perfectly coherent...sometimes it takes awhile for that fog to fully lift.



_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:14:45 AM   
Toystory


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         For  me it depends.......if i am at a fetish club, playing with someone for the first time ( after w/We have talked ), it is like an introduction. She is showing me who She is through action and i am showing Her who i am also. i feel like i am on a first date,  excited, nervous, attracted, happy..........Some of the things that are being shared can not be expressed in words.
       If i am with a Mistress whom i am involved with the feelings are much more intense. Being submissive is 24 hrs so there are many more dynamics involved. Over all i feel loved, a little scared ( in a good way), accepted , gratefull and conected. This is so important to have that connection with a Mistress. It is magic for me when it happens. Its like sombody has turned a light on in a dark room.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:37:20 AM   
Petruchio


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{lurking quietly monitoring this interesting thread}

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 1:35:54 PM   
mistoferin


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Yes, it is an interesting thread. I have been enjoying it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 4:13:51 PM   
MmakeMme


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A feel a tickle-like sensation in the bottom of my belly, and sometimes my body goes numb, letting my Selft run on autopilot. I move from a place far away, like I'm trying to run in a swimming pool. It can be, at times, like I felt when I was in the last stages of labor - the whole would could march in and see and I wouldn't really notice or care.

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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 4:50:10 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

A feel a tickle-like sensation in the bottom of my belly, and sometimes my body goes numb, letting my Selft run on autopilot. I move from a place far away, like I'm trying to run in a swimming pool. It can be, at times, like I felt when I was in the last stages of labor - the whole would could march in and see and I wouldn't really notice or care.


Wow. Thanks to everyone who has posted.

I'd like to be able to get back to comment more specifically within a few days. In the meanwhile I just wanted to express my appreciation to everyone who gave the question such careful consideration and shared their their observations with everybody.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 4:58:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Noah,

If you don't mind, I am curious as to what motivated you to ask the question...?

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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 6:32:17 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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The closest way I can describe it is, feeling like a kid on Christmas eve and morning. Excited, anxious, giddy, happy , loved, warm and natural.

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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:19:33 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

For me, the emotional and physical feelings that are tired to submissiveness are closely connected.  I will try to explain them to you in a way that (I hope) makes sense.


I think it is fine even if things don't make sense, strictly speaking, in the present context. I think we might be in an area where we pretty much have to show rather than tell things to one another, even if we do the showing by means of words.

Now of course what I just said didn't make sense, strictly. But if you happened to catch what I was trying to show you with those a-sensical sentences then maybe we can proceed.


quote:

The emotional feelings of peacefulness and contentment equates to feeling physically sated - no hunger, no thirst, no longing for something more to make me happier than what I feel at that moment.  I described it once as what I imagined it would feel like being "swallowed up in a big, fluffy cloud" - just comfortable and soft.


I am reminded of Augustine's notion of Evil... if I'm remembering this right... that Evil isn't a thing in self but rather a privation of good. Very roughly a privation of God. In today's language "alienation" might be a better word since the God referred to wasn't seen as one who would flee or hide or deprive you of himself. But anyway the underlying notion of privation (bigger than and semantically prior to deprivation) remains there in the word alianation.

So in your illustration we encounter not Evil being accounted for but rather something good, and it is described in terms of a privation of privations, which is a nice, orderly little celtic knotwork of ideas. Are you always this philosophical?

Speaking of philosophy, your account also reminded me of Eastern notions of non-being and non-attachment. Interesting to see the phenomena of submissiveness described in a way that sounds so much like a traditional path to enlightenment.

A last comment about this bit. I like the sort of involutedness or recursiveness of your using, if I can paraphrase: "being eaten by a cloud" to characterize something which you also characterize as being beyond hunger yourself (and I hope we can proceed without a hijack about why subby clouds are always so big and fluffy.)

quote:

Sometimes my submissive feelings make me feel emotionally helpless and easily consumed, so to speak.  That can translate into almost an adrenaline kick - increased heart rate, a little nervous or "scared," faster breathing. 

Other times, my feelings of submission are more of a sexual nature and my emotions are more in the area of feeling wanton, sexy, passionate, completely willing.  This can result in physical responses of increased sexual arousal, faster breathing and heart rate, and an increased tolerance for pain.


I appreciate your treating of how the phenomena vary for you from one instance to another. Referring back to some things LA pointed out, these various sensations and impressions could presumably also appear for you in other contexts, maybe in different constellations as it were. Thanks for describing these particular constellations of sensations and locating them on your firmament for us.

quote:

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but I tried...    
I asked Daddy a few weeks ago what it felt like to be Dominant over another person in the way that He is with me and the only answer I got was "natural."    


Well that would be the subject of another thread, eh?

So did you ask him what "natural" felt like? I mean, physically?


quote:

I hope that you get  more satisfaction from the answers we are trying to give you, Noah. 


I'm gratified by your collective efforts to address my question and grateful to each of you in particular.

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:38:10 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS


This is such a hard thing to describe...


... but you want to do hard things for Daddy, right?

Oops. Nevermind. Wrong subby.

quote:

I'm heartened someone else used the "Geisha" quote -- I also think it best captures a sense of what it feels like to be in the moment. That said, there are different flavors of submissiveness for me and they feel different physically.  There's that drop into the pit of my stomach when I get "the look" -- that one that goes right through you.  It's not a relaxed feeling but more one with a touch of dangerousness...  thrilling maybe?  I get the same feeling with fingers drawn down my spine or a low voice in my ear...  where my stomach flips over, I shiver a little and it feels impossible to look the person in the eye. It's hard to explain the sinking feeling but I become hyperalert to what's happening between the two of us... hypersensitive.


I like this issue at the boundary of sensation. In fact the issue can kind of be seen as the boundary of sensation, and modifications thereto, if I'm understanding what you're getting at with this talk about hyperalertness and hypersensitivity.


quote:

I've never been in subspace,

Well me neither, but I kind of like the music.

They say the ladies are insane there, by the way
http://www.threedognight.com/l_never.html

quote:

so I can't speak to that, but sometimes after being together for awhile I can sink into things, the way other people have mentioned.  Moving anything from my head to my feet can feel like being underwater, where it takes so much more effort just to raise an arm or answer a question.  I can feel a transfer of energy between myself and Him and I also tend to lose my speech when I'm in this sort of place.  I can't answer questions or state things clearly, even though I'm very aware of what's being said to me.  It's like the thread between my mouth and my brain is cut and no words will come out even when I want them to. 


I can't help wondering how you conclude that you have never been to subspace, since your description of your response reminds me of any mumber of descriptions I have heard of subspace experiences. But I'm not gonna arm-wrestle you over it.

If there's one thing all you subbies have in common it's this penchant to think you're different from all the others.

quote:

There is a third state for me -- the feeling of submissiveness that comes from being in active service (like serving/organizing a meal, laying out clothes, dressing, giving a massage, etc...)  Doing these things gives me a warm glow along with settling my head.  I don't experience any of the heaviness or sense of being covered; it's more like the first sense of being hyperaware, but inclined towards everything around me rather than just myself and Him. I'm more steady on my feet, more articulate, more an active part of things rather than a passive one.  The submissive feeling comes from knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing -- being useful in serving His needs -- which translates into gentle fluid movement.  This is the hardest one to put specific feelings to, because its so much like being generally competent from day to day.  For me it's the emotional component that morphs this state from general "doing" into a submissive act.


Thanks for offering that particular distinction, the quality of feeling submissive arising from the doing, as it were.

quote:

Thanks for asking this question... it gave me something lovely to think on this morning.


You are welcome.

(in reply to HollyS)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:47:37 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It's been interesting for me to read the responses.  I am different than most of you.


Oh no. Not another one!

quote:

For me feeling my "submissiveness" isn't often warm and fuzzy.  It is more challenging.  Especially when I submit to things that are unpleasant.  The words I would use are "uneven", "unbalanced", "alarmed", "overpowered".  I don't go to headspace where I float, or feel warm and loved.   I'm not a subspacer.  I'm happy if I can get through the challenges with a "good job girlie."


Thanks, Katy.

I can imagine that for some people, maybe you, the chance to experience disequilibrium, absent a sense of responsibility to rectify it immediately, could be a liberating--even if disequilibriating--moment.

But really I've been struck by how many people included as part of their set of descriptions mentions of things which are other than warm-n-fuzzy. I certainly don't mean to say that I'm surprised, since I have witnessed first hand a good deal of submitting which couldn't very well have been accompanied by much of anything in the warm 'n fuzzy department. I'm only noting that several people have come out about this in this thread.



(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 8:55:11 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

"Feeling submissive" for me is more about "Feeling dominated"( be it physical, psychological, or emotional). It manifests itself in me physically in several ways. My breathing rate decreases, my HR/pulse decreases, my muscles loosen up, I go limp like a ragdoll cat does. I generaly become physically sexually aroused. I have this same reaction when my owner uses power over other people, be it colleagues/co-workers, store clerks, customer service people etc. when he gets people to give him what he wants and do what he wants(especially if they were adamant that they could not) I have the same similiar physical reaction to it.


Thank you.

Your response brought to mind discussions about sadists and questions as to whether an individual sadist could take vicarious pleasure in pain, so to speak. That is to enjoy someone's pain even if he or she was not administering it himself.

In some way the word vicarious might be called in to describe the kick you get from seeing your pal dominate--in some way or sense--other people as well as yourself, and in other contexts than kinky ones.

Finally:
quote:

... go limp like a ragdoll cat ...
I don't know what a ragdoll cat is but I just love this string of words.

I don't suppose that same ragdoll cat would post under the name BeingChewtoy, would she?

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 9:04:43 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted

ok, here is my best attempt to recall the physical sensation, when it is primarily the mental and emotional sensations that I recall first and foremost.  mind you, I am very new to D/s itself, so in many ways I am still sorting out these sensations and feelings for myself.


Awright! Fresh meat.

quote:

there is a calmness that comes over me, mentally and physically...it begins in my head and travels throughout my system (meaning muscular, nervous etc), and covers me with it's heaviness...it's a very comforting heaviness too, because in this calmness I know that any response Master may elicit will be very organic in nature, very true to my natural self.  it's a feeling I know I can trust, and therefore, makes any pleasure derived from it that much more satisfying, including sexual pleasure (yeah baby!)


That "muscular, nervous, etc." talk made me think about physiology in a more clinical way. One which I'm thoroughly unqualified to say anything about by the way. I mentioned galvanic skin response earlier. I wonder if all of the body's systems, as categorized by the biologists, are able to get in on this act. Does feeling submissive leave handprints on the walls (or floors) of the lymphatic system, for instance? The immune system? etc. etc. etc.

I mean I think it would be fatuous to try to reduce these feelings to physiological responses (felt or subliminably detectable by instruments.) It is just kind of interesting and it might have some technical ramifications.

Or is ramification a hard limit for you?



(in reply to lighthearted)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 9:09:47 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


"It makes me feel submissive when ..."

"This person makes me feel submissive ..."


What I'd like to hear about are those feelings, themselves.


What does it feel like, for you--before, during, or after any actual interaction which might yield further sensations, to just "feel submissive"?




...
as each day begins, this slave “feels” submissive, and has all of her life.  it isn’t something that is brought on by a gesture or word or specific person or scene or ritual.  that feeling is carried through every action, interaction and happening of the day.
 
this slave felt it and acted on it long before she was aware of D/s and M/s relationships…being Master’s slave just means it is focused upon and physically manifested at His will and whim.


Yes. So--not to put too fine a point on it--what does it feel like, physically?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 9:20:25 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
Interesting and complex question, Noah.
Although submission is what I choose because it fulfills me, how I feel depends on the day and the type of interaction. 
Sometimes it is like wearing warm fuzzy slippers, sometimes it’s like teetering on 5 inch spike heels, and sometimes it is akin to walking barefoot on broken glass.
Sometimes I am galvanized, energized by my submission, other times it makes me weary and I could weep.
Sometimes it feels like duty, sometimes it feels like joy.
The dichotomy for me is that submission makes me feel proud. 


Not sure what you meant by dichotomy there, but thank you so much for those fecund analogies. There are all sorts of ways to describe feelings and sensations. You seem to be pretty handy with that one.

quote:

Sometimes it feels like duty, sometimes it feels like joy.


And that sentence ought to be carved somewhere.

Any suggestions?

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 9:34:21 PM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

So in your illustration we encounter not Evil being accounted for but rather something good, and it is described in terms of a privation of privations, which is a nice, orderly little celtic knotwork of ideas. Are you always this philosophical?

Speaking of philosophy, your account also reminded me of Eastern notions of non-being and non-attachment. Interesting to see the phenomena of submissiveness described in a way that sounds so much like a traditional path to enlightenment.


Thank you for taking such time and care in your replies, Noah.  I found it interesting how you were able to find religious/philosophical elements in the various things that I wrote as I had not really thought about them that way exponentially. (Maybe a fleeting notion at first blush, but not so in depth as you did.)  Just as a point of interest, I took a great many courses in religion (east and west) while in college, and found your comparisons with my post intriguing.  Thank you for bringing back some very pleasant memories to me. 

quote:


So did you ask him what "natural" felt like? I mean, physically?


I did not, but I can assure you that I will. 

I was speaking to Him about this thread last night on the way to dinner, and told Him that it was very hard to translate into a physical sense what the total experience of submission meant to me.  He smiled (probably hoping that I would not turn my previous question on Him again) and held my hand.  I do not think that He has ever been with someone who, like yourself, tries to dissect and break down somewhat intangible things into tangible parts.  I find it terribly fascinating, and poor Daddy, He is probably just thinking...  "not again."  *giggles* 

_____________________________

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Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/3/2006 9:52:38 PM   
marieToo


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 Reply to OP topic:


The first word that comes to mind is "conflict".  Submission feels like a conflict. In some ways, submission, to me,  is like the proverbial dance with the devil.   It makes me feel nervous and intimidated and scared of the unknown, and self-conscious.....horribley self-conscious, but I cant resist it's draw.  Submission is usually a physical and emotional discomfort to me,  but at the same time it feels like home.    
It's not pretty and shiney for me...It's a dark and twisted place that I have to visit. I don't think it's a healthy place to be in; I never have. But I can and will continue to go there, simply because it calls me and I'm weak against it.  Without it I feel like a flatliner walking through life.  It's almost as if suffering at the hands of a harsh motherfucker makes me feel more alive, while at the same time goes against all I believe to be 'right'.   Maybe it's the very conflict of it that I love so much.  I don't know.  I can't relate to this relaxed and centered feeling that so many of the others refer to, or the almost psychodelic feelings of floating etc.  The only thing that comes close to this for me is when I'm kneeling and it feels like I cannot possibly get low enough for this person....there I find a moment of comfort.  Beyond that, it's more like I'm one big emotional nerve, raw and exposed.  This probably has alot to do with my choice of partners.  Maybe someday I would like to experience all of this "warm and fuzzy",  lovey dovey, protected and safe, stuff that some of the others talk about;  just not any time soon.   


_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 6:14:31 AM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
Not sure what you meant by dichotomy there,
********
I am continually surprised by the pride.  Driving home after a weekend at my master’s house, reviewing in my head how I was abased, humbled, used; and I feel no shame.   “You should be ashamed of yourself” was a frequent maternal mantra in my formative years.  It seems that I have overcome that.  When I am obedient to master’s will, there is little that humiliates me, because whatever is done is pleasing to him.  And so I see a dichotomy, for wouldn’t a “normal” person feel shame?  But I feel “aloft in abasement” to quote one of my own poems.
 
but thank you so much for those fecund analogies. There are all sorts of ways to describe feelings and sensations. You seem to be pretty handy with that one.
*******
Thank you for your words of appreciation on my writing style.

quote:

Sometimes it feels like duty, sometimes it feels like joy.


And that sentence ought to be carved somewhere.

Any suggestions?
*******
<grins>  Yeah, I have a few ideas but it would depend on whether you want it to be a personal reminder message for me or someplace where it could be seen by the general public!




_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 60
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