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RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 6:55:51 AM

onestandingstill

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For me feeling submissive comes when there's someone I am emotionally able to let my guard down with and let into my inner sanctum.
It's a place for me where there's nothing left to hide behind to protect my self from someone.
It's knowing I don't have to be in control or in charge and that I'm still safe without anything covering over my most vulnerable parts of me.
In my normal day to day life I feel like I have to control what I say and how much I let someone know about the things inside me that are fragile.
When I submit I give those fragile things to my Dom to hold so they are no longer something I have to hold on to or guard over knowing he will keep them safe or make them not weak spots but strong ones as well.
In a nut shell submission to my One gives me freedom from fear.
I can lay down my sword and know I'll be safe behind his instead.

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 7:27:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

"It makes me feel submissive when ..."

"This person makes me feel submissive ..."

What I'd like to hear about are those feelings, themselves.

What does it feel like, for you--before, during, or after any actual interaction which might yield further sensations, to just "feel submissive"?

...
as each day begins, this slave “feels” submissive, and has all of her life. it isn’t something that is brought on by a gesture or word or specific person or scene or ritual. that feeling is carried through every action, interaction and happening of the day.

this slave felt it and acted on it long before she was aware of D/s and M/s relationships…being Master’s slave just means it is focused upon and physically manifested at His will and whim.

Yes. So--not to put too fine a point on it--what does it feel like, physically?

Natural, like Daddysreadhead's Daddy reported to her how He feels about being dominant. It isn’t a feeling like a physical sensation of cold or an emotional sensation like fear or security, it just IS.

If you asked this slave how does it physically feel to have freckles---what words would this slave use to compare and contrast it with if she can’t remember ever NOT having them…maybe if they faded away in the afternoon and came back in the evening, she could tell you the difference in the “feeling”…this slave doesn’t have an alternative to submissive (other than not being conscious) to contrast with, which is what she was trying to explain in her previous post.

this slave has tried, but does not relate to the responses to your thread which describe a distinct difference of physical sensations when they are in submissive mode or when someone or some activity makes them “feel” submissive, as opposed to how they feel in non-submissive mode. For this slave, it isn’t a mode, it just IS.

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 8:02:37 AM

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Oh dear...that oh so overwhelming submissive feeling comes without warning...there need be nothing said...not a touch.....just the presence of that dominant who "touches" my soul...
My body will instantly take on a feeling of being open....connected... with each breath I take I feel the rush of dominance flowing through me....and like the tide I feel my submission being pulled from me....it feels like he is flowing into me, quite literally... every muscle tenses, yet there is such a feeling of muscle weakness....vulnerability.... My knees will tremble ....my entire body will shake....The feeling of breathlessness overwhelms me....my stomach is tied into knots...gawd, I love it!!!!

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 9:18:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

Or is ramification a hard limit for you?

uh...was that supposed to be funny?

it would be beyond fatuous to reduce our feelings to their physiological responses, as it robs them of their humanity - and therefore, doesn't interest me, not being the scientifical type.

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 11:49:01 AM

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It makes my skin feel "tingly", and my heart sometimes beats faster. I also feel very, very relaxed, and sometimes almost drowsy, like I am "melting" into the other person, (if that makes sense).

I recently bought singer-songwriter "Enya"'s new CD, "Amarantine" (which is fantastic, btw). On the CD there is a song called: "Amid the Falling Snow". It's a very beautiful song, I think (I am an Enya fan).

I think the lyrics in the refrain of the song describe (to me) very well what it feels like to be "drowning" in submissive feelings, so to speak.

In this song, one has to imagine actually becoming a snow-flake, though...being a part of the snowfall. The song refrain goes like this:

"Maybe I am falling down.
Tell me should I touch the ground?
Maybe I won't make a sound.
In the silence all around...."

So safe, so calm - so peaceful. I love the feeling so much.

Good topic!

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/4/2006 12:14:36 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/4/2006 9:02:43 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Natural, like Daddysreadhead's Daddy reported to her how He feels about being dominant. It isn’t a feeling like a physical sensation of cold or an emotional sensation like fear or security, it just IS.

If you asked this slave how does it physically feel to have freckles---what words would this slave use to compare and contrast it with if she can’t remember ever NOT having them…maybe if they faded away in the afternoon and came back in the evening, she could tell you the difference in the “feeling”…this slave doesn’t have an alternative to submissive (other than not being conscious) to contrast with, which is what she was trying to explain in her previous post.

this slave has tried, but does not relate to the responses to your thread which describe a distinct difference of physical sensations when they are in submissive mode or when someone or some activity makes them “feel” submissive, as opposed to how they feel in non-submissive mode. For this slave, it isn’t a mode, it just IS.

Thank you, Beth.

Given the time I'd like to return and comment further on some of these responses and maybe ask for some other clarifications. In the mean time I'd like to again thank everyone who has taken the trouble to address this question.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 4:32:49 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Submissiveness makes me feel like a woman, it really puts me in touch with my femininity...it allows me to channel that.

In those times I don't feel submissive, I feel like I'm androgynous, kinda neutral or something.

A few posters have said things which are closely congruent with this, I think. The idea of feeling "natural" or moreso when "feeling submissive."

Sorry for all the scare quotes. When so many terms in a conversation lack agreed upon literalistic definitions (which is fine; some concepts are inherently ambiguous and so we can hardly expect the names by which we refer to them to be strictly definitive) I'm tempted to indicate that I'm using words in an approximate way by putting quotes around them.

You, jali, put further spin on it by hooking it to this transition from a sort of gender-neutral feeling to a sense of, what? more fully inhabiting your femininity? That's interesting.

I wonder if those who talk about feeling more natural are mainly thinking in terms of temporarily sloughing off some acculturated veneer to reveal what lies "naturally" beneath it. On the other hand I suppose a person might feel quite authentic at any time, in terms of their sense of their personality, but when experiencing submissivness maybe they get more fully in touch with their, well, organic nature? Maybe in touch with themselves as a physical being or in touch with the sense in which a person is still an animal?

I wonder, jali, if your ("unsubmissve") movement away from your feminity is a matter of centering yourself more in your head in those times, in your rational sense of yourself, more fully inhabitting a sort of a-sexual rational way of being, while submissivness kind of brings you more into your body? Not putting words in your mouth. Just exploring. I'm confident it could some whole other way. I just don't know what.

Some feminist theorists, and some others, will hold that there is a disnctly feminine rationality. Under that view one might hold that no matter how up in one's head one gets she should not be expected to leave behind her sense of gender. But then aren't there some people who just don't seem to relate much to their gender identity at all? Who have little or notion of gender tied up in their sense of who they are at any time, submissive or not?

What I'm sure of is that I don't know the secret truths of these things, if there are any. I will appreciate any insights offerred by members of any gender.

Thanks.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 5:00:40 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather
I have an awareness of certain physical sensations or "feelings" when I am experiencing a particular moment when I am more acutely aware of my submissive orientation toward my partner. Perhaps I am lucky enough to be so acutely aware of the physical sensations because my partner has, from the beginning of our relationship, encouraged and even required that I practice mindfulness in my submission to him.

Sounds like you've got one kick ASS partner there, you lucky thing. But with socks like those how could you miss?

Everyone I deal with kinkily get practice in sorting things like physical feelings from emotional ones; hopes and fears from ideas and prejudices; theories from descriptions.

So many confusions in our relationships turn out to be external reflections of confusions within us, I think. I don't know anyone who couldn't stand to get better at this.

Surely, if one of your intentions is to explore new territory in experience or in yourself (and maybe find previously undiscovered treasure) I think it is important to be more intimately familiar with yourself than our culture generally requires or encourages. I don't mean in a big phychoanalytical overlook kind of way. Maybe more like the way a good rider is familiar with his horse. It has more to do with moment-to-moment awareness and acuteness than with an ability to summarize.

The ghost in the machine can manage to drive it around for years in a marginally adequate way without really feeling it's pulse. That can be a blessing in certain extreme circumstances but it is kind of a shame if it becomes a habit, I think.

quote:

The physical sensations that come to mind for me vary from a lightheaded wooziness to a slow, gentle sinking sensation in my stomach to a tingling sensation up and down my spine, depending on what it is that he (my partner) is doing or saying at the time. My partner's scent can also be a powerful trigger for me, so it isnt always about something he does or says.
The most consistent feelings that I experience have to do with a sensation of letting go of physical tension and a settling of my breath, a sort of dropping into my center. At the same time, there is a sense of lightness that fills me. It is almost as if I am physically letting go of something.That lightness is most prominently manifest in my head, but I am aware that the sensation is present in my entire body.
So, I guess it is like a grounding and a lightening at the same time. I feel physically smaller in some sense but at the same time I feel expansive. I think this has to do with my connection to the moment, which is as large as all time and as small as the smallest increment of time at once. So, for me, there is this wonderful array of seemingly juxtapositional feelings...a series of dichotomies....I am small, yet I am limitless. I am grounded, yet I am light. My senses are aroused, yet I am aware that my breathing is slower and deeper.
I have an increased awareness of my forehead, my chest and my pelvis... my intellectual, emotional and sexual "centers". Tension leaves my neck and shoulders. There is a sense of release of tension throughout my body, a sort of "giving up" of that tension as in the giving up of my will. A giving over. This is physically manifest in my body.

Thank you. All these juxtapositions can sound paradoxical when put into words but I think we are in an area where words are penguins, they swim with their wings. And we just have to go with that and not get too hung up on it.

So we see this phenomenon wherein all sorts of seemingly paradoxical elements--things which might be mutually exclusive from a logical standpoint--hang together. That this should be the case goes a long way for me toward resolving--or rather, erasing--questions which seem to trouble a lot of people, especially noobs.

"How can a sadist hurt a masochist?" "Where does the control really lie?" ... and things like that.

That sort of question seems often to presume that since it can be asked in such a way as to invite a single cut-and-dried answer then we should damn well get to some kind of cut-and-dried answer. You know, those boiled-down reductionist claims like "The sub is always the one really in control" or "A sadist can't really hurt a masochist."

But far too much is boiled away when things get boiled down like this. Our natural ability, even propensity, to experience seeming paradox both psychologically and emotionally isn't taken into account.

Some questions don't have simple answers and it seems to me that assigning simple answers to them is a lame attempt to sooth something in ourselves at the cost of encountering the world as it happens to be, in all its seemingly paradoxical glory.

quote:

It is not that outside of these times of physical manifestation I am not submissive to my partner. It is my firm belief that submission is not a matter of feelings, it is about action. I think that what happens is that when my attention is acutely focused on submission, the physical sensations follow. So, whether they are a product of my submission or my attention to the submission, I can not say...I only get to inhabit and enjoy the feelings when I am paying attention to them.

I think this addresses nicely comments from beth and kyra. I mean it doesn't attempt to refute or confirm them but for me it sheds light on them.

Thank you, dolly.

(in reply to justheather)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 5:44:10 PM

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~quick reply~

Just a thank you to Noah for starting this thread and responding to the posts.

Initially I was not going to respond to this thread. I made the mistake of starting to read the posts and after deciding that how I felt was too far out of the norm (I enjoy being out of the norm, but perhaps not in such an obvious, seemingly lacking way), I didn't want to invite any "you aren't sub enough" comments coming my way. I explained this to my Dom as we read the posts. At that point he told me to respond, "you know there are others who feel the same way you do."

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 6:00:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

~quick reply~

Just a thank you to Noah for starting this thread and responding to the posts.

Yes, I will second that. Thank you Noah...this has been a great thread. I know it has been time consuming responding but your replies have really been as interesting to read as the initial responses.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:02:08 PM

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ok..well....that was here long enough.

I swear I share too much with you people...

:)

< Message edited by marieToo -- 12/5/2006 8:49:14 PM >

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:03:56 PM

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it feels like a kick in the stomach followed by a head butt

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~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to Noah)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:14:30 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

it feels like a kick in the stomach followed by a head butt

So then we've met?

I'm terribly sorry, but I don't seem to remember you.

Thanks, Tikkiee. Not too many teddy bears and rainbows in that account.

(in reply to Tikkiee)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:20:35 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I have read most of this thread and my thoughts and feelings are quite different than most. I don't "feel submissive". For me, submission is an action or behavior. I am obedient to him so I am submissive to him. In being obedient, there are a wide variety of physical, mental and emotional reactions. I feel some of the same things that others have described as "feeling submissive" but there are also moments when I am obedient that I feel despair, empty, used up, invisible and other things that do not generate or stem from positive feelings.

Thanks, kyra. Your post seems to speak to the notion that how we choose to approach something and how we describe something and how we experience something can interact in certain ways, back and forth.

I suppose if you were to sit down with a few other posters to this thread you might find after you kicked some ideas back and forth that your experiences were more similar than your (respective) first attempts at describing them would show.

Then again, maybe not. I am struck by the range of ...sort of asymmetric echoes there are between various people's accounts of the way they experience their own submissiveness.

Thank you for sharing and please give my regards to himself.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:25:28 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: timeoutgurlie

Tingley, light, almost something of the sky if that makes any sense, and my blood is either being distributed differently, faster/slower, or I'm just suddenly more aware of how it feels inside my body especially under/through my skin.

Sounds strange to see it in text

Yeah. Strange and cool.

Thank you.

Remember how somebody, LA I think, pointed out that we have a sort of finite range of possible sensations and we attribute meanings to them differently? I think she was getting at something like that. Anyway, I wonder if a similar sort of sensation arising from something quite UNwelcome is what gives rise to that expression: "He makes my skin crawl"?

Whether that is or isn't the case, thank you for sharing that powerfully evocative description.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:34:17 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
...
The only way that I can really describe the feeling with any accuracy is to say that it is very much like the feeling that you get when you sit down to nurse a baby and that intense calm comes over you when the oxytocin is released into your body. It is like you can feel your mind stop racing, your heart rate and breathing slow and you become enveloped by a calm and serene cloud. It is sometimes as profound as a shot of valium.

Well I have some second-hand experience with lactation in various contexts but of course in the end I have to do some imagining and extrapolating to try to appreciate that part of your description. That's fine, though. Thank you for offering us the best description you had.

Valium I may have experience once or twice.

Did you know that there is an acupuncture point known in some of the literature as the Valium Analog?

quote:

I have always described the feeling as a "settling into place", because quite often it comes at a time when I am pre-occupied with anything other than submission, and it instantly puts me into "submissive mode". The feeling is one of settling down or dropping...but not as in sub drop.

I like the way that that dropping can be a powerful metaphor for two quite different things which at the same time are intricately linked in other ways.

Another lovely celtic knot of ideas, and this one arising from the mist of erin no less.

Thank you

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:39:20 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toystory

For me it depends.......if i am at a fetish club, playing with someone for the first time ( after w/We have talked ), it is like an introduction. She is showing me who She is through action and i am showing Her who i am also. i feel like i am on a first date, excited, nervous, attracted, happy..........Some of the things that are being shared can not be expressed in words.
If i am with a Mistress whom i am involved with the feelings are much more intense. Being submissive is 24 hrs so there are many more dynamics involved. Over all i feel loved, a little scared ( in a good way), accepted , gratefull and conected. This is so important to have that connection with a Mistress. It is magic for me when it happens. Its like sombody has turned a light on in a dark room.

Thank you for piping up from the male side of the aisle.

Your description was heavy on things other than physical sensations. This is fine of course as you can comment as you wish. It would be interesting to here more about the physical phenomenology of submissiveness from guys, particularly ones who hadn't read what the various women have shared.

I'd be interested to see to what extent guys used different terms and imagery to describe similar sensations. I'd also be interested to see whether any pattern of apparent difference arose between the male and female accounts.

Thanks, toystory,

(in reply to Toystory)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:40:53 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

{lurking quietly monitoring this interesting thread}

I heard that!

(in reply to Petruchio)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:44:08 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

A feel a tickle-like sensation in the bottom of my belly, and sometimes my body goes numb, letting my Selft run on autopilot. I move from a place far away, like I'm trying to run in a swimming pool. It can be, at times, like I felt when I was in the last stages of labor - the whole would could march in and see and I wouldn't really notice or care.

Although it isn't particularly a physical response I'm taken with your comment about what we might call a loss of self-consciousness. Not literally becoming unaware of yourself but that sometimes awkward kind of self-consciousness we often refer to, I guess.

TthankYyou

(in reply to MmakeMme)

RE: How submissiveness feels - 12/5/2006 8:45:33 PM

Noah

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What's it worth to ya, girlie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Noah,

If you don't mind, I am curious as to what motivated you to ask the question...?

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

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