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RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 6:15:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

To add to this, what, where, when and how are all the things that I think about when given an instruction. Just because a person does not think about disobeying the instruction doesn't mean they are not thinking at all.

Knight's kyra

I wasn't saying that. Just that she obeys without thought in regard to everything (she has said she would get into a stranger's car if they told her to) and that makes her submission without thought.

that is untrue. my submission is not "without thought." it may be reflexive, but that does not equate to thoughtlessness. just because my feelings/thoughts do not rule what my Master (or anyone else) does or does not do, does not mean that they do not matter. now it's true that i give no thought to disobedience...many other slaves (like og) can say the same. but if the absence of this one very specific thought equates to robotic/mindless/thoughtless submission to you, i'm afraid you've lost me.
also, i understand that you most likely meant no offense with your words, but they certainly did offend, myself and many others i'm sure. perhaps there is just a lack of understanding (or even a willingness to understand) on your part regarding the Owner/slave dynamic.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 7:17:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

only thing that is 100% is abstanance

Magik's slave

This is actually untrue..having a complete hysterectomy including removal of the ovaries is also 100%.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 7:26:59 PM

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So is anal sex, right?

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 7:28:48 PM

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No, those little sperm can leak out and travel south and Im sure you can guess where they go from there. They are sneaky little things.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 7:33:11 PM

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So much for that theory.

Coming in a woman's ear is out by the same logic, I suppose.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 7:36:45 PM

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LOL. Well if they are very good swimmers I suppose they could. Thats more like a cross country trip for them. Im sure someone has tried it.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 9:41:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I just know that in this particular circumstance you seem to looking for insult where, as I've stated numerous times, none was intended. And to be fair, a miscalcuated word is a lot more innocent then "you are loser, but that's ok really."

Just to clarify two things:
1. I was not looking for insult. I saw something I found insulting and pointed it out. There is a difference. But it's been addressed and is done with now.

2. I did not actually say you were a loser. Well I said it but not seriously. I said it to make a point that just because something - anything - is not said with the intention of insulting, it can still be insulting. I used an extreme, obvious example, only to make the point.

There are things I still do not fully agree with about your last post, but I'm dropping it.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/9/2006 9:56:12 PM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

But it does make her submission "without thought". She doesn't "give a thought" to disobeying. That means: her submission = without thought. Thoughtless. Without thought.

My question is this, are you in her head to know her thoughts? That is a mean feat indeed, and here I thought I was psychic. It is one thing to state that it appears to you that daddysprop does not put much thought into her slavery because of how she writes her post, but this definitive label of thoughtless is a little uppity of you in the way you have communicated it.

Just because someone obeys does not mean they are thoughtless about their obedience, it just means that they obey. They may have questions about why they are doing a task that go unasked, they maybe curious about why they are ordered to do such and such, they may even glancingly consider disobedience but obey anyways.. obedience in and of itself is not thoughtless. A zombie is thoughtless, and to call people thoughtless is to insinuate they lack cognitive skills and humanity... that IS insulting whether you meant it so or not.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:20:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

that is untrue. my submission is not "without thought." it may be reflexive, but that does not equate to thoughtlessness. just because my feelings/thoughts do not rule what my Master (or anyone else) does or does not do, does not mean that they do not matter. now it's true that i give no thought to disobedience...many other slaves (like og) can say the same. but if the absence of this one very specific thought equates to robotic/mindless/thoughtless submission to you, i'm afraid you've lost me.
also, i understand that you most likely meant no offense with your words, but they certainly did offend, myself and many others i'm sure. perhaps there is just a lack of understanding (or even a willingness to understand) on your part regarding the Owner/slave dynamic.

Reflexive means you didn't think about it.

I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm sure you are very intelligant woman and I realize that the Owner/slave dynamic is one in which submission is reflexive regarding all things for most situations but reflexive does mean without thought. That doesn't mean you aren't thinking about what you are doing about how to make it better and how to please him more. It doesn't mean you are incapable of thought at all.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:40:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Reflexive means you didn't think about it.

I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm sure you are very intelligant woman and I realize that the Owner/slave dynamic is one in which submission is reflexive regarding all things for most situations but reflexive does mean without thought. That doesn't mean you aren't thinking about what you are doing about how to make it better and how to please him more. It doesn't mean you are incapable of thought at all.

I can't help but wonder what it is that you are getting out of this exchange to completely ignore all the other people and even prop herself and continue to force your belief that prop is thoughtless in her submission.

You do not know prop and to unequivocally say that she is without thought in her submission despite repeated statements by her and others that this is untrue just seems highly arrogant to me.

Why do you keep trying to convince her that she is thoughtless in her submission?

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:40:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

While the question is set up for male dom/fem sub, I'm interested in responses from everyone. Thanks for reading,
Aqua

This is a case where reality interfers with fantasy. Assuming you were pregnant you would have been in a position where you would have to think and make decisions independent of your so called dom because you would have to make choices for a potential new life. Simply letting your dom make the decisions is a decision in itself and a denial of your responsibility as a potential mother. If I was able to get pregnant, I can't for the life of me imagine my letting a partner make all the decisions for the new life that was growing inside me. I would discuss it and take note of my partner's wishes, maybe even think his ideas were more appropriate but it would be me that made the ultimate decision. It really can't be any other way, no matter what the pretence of the relationship is.

If he was suggesting adoption, he wasn't really interested in the child but more interested in remaining child free. His willingness to look after the child in that light is a fall back position he would rather be without. I don't see it any other way. I would suggest, just make sure you don't get pregnant in the first place. You can carry on with your fantasy then.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:44:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

2. I did not actually say you were a loser. Well I said it but not seriously. I said it to make a point that just because something - anything - is not said with the intention of insulting, it can still be insulting. I used an extreme, obvious example, only to make the point.

There are things I still do not fully agree with about your last post, but I'm dropping it.

I know you didn't.

I was just pointing that out.

Edited for spelling

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/10/2006 7:46:30 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:46:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Reflexive means you didn't think about it.

I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm sure you are very intelligant woman and I realize that the Owner/slave dynamic is one in which submission is reflexive regarding all things for most situations but reflexive does mean without thought. That doesn't mean you aren't thinking about what you are doing about how to make it better and how to please him more. It doesn't mean you are incapable of thought at all.

I can't help but wonder what it is that you are getting out of this exchange to completely ignore all the other people and even prop herself and continue to force your belief that prop is thoughtless in her submission.

You do not know prop and to unequivocally say that she is without thought in her submission despite repeated statements by her and others that this is untrue just seems highly arrogant to me.

Why do you keep trying to convince her that she is thoughtless in her submission?

Knight's kyra

Just trying to explain my thoughts and demostrate my line of reasoning and that I really wasn't trying to be offensive. I'm not really interested in convincing her of anything except to show where my reasoning is coming from.

I'm of a medical background. Therefore anything reflexive (like breathing) is something done without thought. But eh... I only seem to be bothering people more in trying to show I genuinely never meant to offend. So I suppose it would be best for me to drop it now and just say sorry all around.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:51:02 AM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

I'm of a medical background. Therefore anything reflexive (like breathing) is something done without thought. But eh... I only seem to be bothering people more in trying to show I genuinely never meant to offend. So I suppose it would be best for me to drop it now and just say sorry all around.

First of all you called her thoughtless in her submission before the reflexive comment came up, second of all one can control their reflexes, breathing is reflexive, yet we can consciously think about how we draw breath.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:56:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

that is untrue. my submission is not "without thought." it may be reflexive, but that does not equate to thoughtlessness. just because my feelings/thoughts do not rule what my Master (or anyone else) does or does not do, does not mean that they do not matter. now it's true that i give no thought to disobedience...many other slaves (like og) can say the same. but if the absence of this one very specific thought equates to robotic/mindless/thoughtless submission to you, i'm afraid you've lost me.
also, i understand that you most likely meant no offense with your words, but they certainly did offend, myself and many others i'm sure. perhaps there is just a lack of understanding (or even a willingness to understand) on your part regarding the Owner/slave dynamic.

Reflexive means you didn't think about it.

I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm sure you are very intelligant woman and I realize that the Owner/slave dynamic is one in which submission is reflexive regarding all things for most situations but reflexive does mean without thought. That doesn't mean you aren't thinking about what you are doing about how to make it better and how to please him more. It doesn't mean you are incapable of thought at all.

Another way to think about it.... hope this doesn't only increase the negative readings in this thread.

I think that over time when we are with someone much of what was once informed choice becomes unconscious choice or you might call that reflective. This could in fact be viewed as a sign of good compatibility or good training.

Consider this simple example from my household. If I'm in a room with Fox I just need to raise my glass a bit and he immediately comes, takes it, get me more water, and brings it back to me. No hestitation so I suspect it is almost a reflect for him now. He had to learn to do this -- I had to be clear about what I wanted, what I used to signal this, and he had to work at learning that included I bet reminding himself what was wanted and how it was wanted.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 7:57:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I'm of a medical background. Therefore anything reflexive (like breathing) is something done without thought. But eh... I only seem to be bothering people more in trying to show I genuinely never meant to offend. So I suppose it would be best for me to drop it now and just say sorry all around.

First of all you called her thoughtless in her submission before the reflexive comment came up, second of all one can control their reflexes, breathing is reflexive, yet we can consciously think about how we draw breath.

As I have explained more then once, a) that was probably the wrong word for me to be using but b) something you do without thought means you do it without thought. I did not intend for it to mean "careless" but only "without thought". In fact it was the wrong word. In a moment of sleep dep I rather forgot what the word actually means and only intended to say "without thought." I have apologized and explained myself to the best of my ability.

Edited for spelling.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/10/2006 7:58:08 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 8:09:31 AM

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My husband became my slave and offered himself completely: I can rent him out, give him away etc... All fine things but not always realistic. What he meant by that is that he wants me to know he wants to be mine entirely. And he trusts me to take him and myself further than we are and were. So, I decide ans I'm responsable. Otherways said: I can do anything I want with him but he knows I'm a good and bright Mistress. I can decide because I take this seriously.

_____________________________

-- Owner of slrn733561 --

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 8:11:08 AM

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From: Texas
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quote:

Remember that some masters actually don't like slaves with your level of thoughtless submission. Some masters actually like it when slaves have a will of their own.

So what exactly did you mean when you said this? Would appreciate an example of a Master you know that prefers a slave to stop, think, balk or comply everytime they are told to do something or this is how things are going to be (ground rules)..especially when it comes to something that the slave would prefer not to do. Obey or not obey. Obedience is what makes a slave a slave. When you throw that out when it suits you..your not a slave.

If what your doing is in agreement to your Owner as decisions made prior to making that choice of : yes I wish or beg to be your slave..then kudo's your setup might be different but if your still obedient to what those things were ..then all is well. If in the course of being owned you decide what you want or what your going to do despite what the owners says..then your no longer being a slave.

It is really cut and dry for me but I know for many it is not..so again this is why I asked what exactly is your understanding of what a "slave" is. I just do not understand nor see the need to call yourself a slave or be one for any reason if you are not going to be obedient to the one that owns you wether you like it or not. It isn't some sort of door prize of labels, and it damn sure is not easy to live that way..but someone that does feel they have to live that way in order to live doesn't make them any cooler or neater or more anything..it just makes them a slave. If a person can not or does not wish to or need to have that in their lives..then there is no need to be a slave or refer to yourself as one. It in no way makes a person less committed or serious about what they are doing if they prefer not to or don't need that.

Everyone has a will of their own, and slaves use it to comply to a will that is not their own because they chose at one time (for their own reasons) to do so.

Do you have to stop the car before you hit a set of signal lights and give thought as to wether your going to stop if it's red or slow down if it's yellow? I know I don't think about it on a conscious basis..I just react to what it is because I know to not react appropriately might cause damage to myself or others. I know that when I took that responsibility to be a driver in that car that I must abide by the rules set up for drivers of cars.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 8:18:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So is anal sex, right?

Mmmm..why yes, yes it is.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Does he own my womb? - 12/10/2006 9:15:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

quote:

Remember that some masters actually don't like slaves with your level of thoughtless submission. Some masters actually like it when slaves have a will of their own.

So what exactly did you mean when you said this? Would appreciate an example of a Master you know that prefers a slave to stop, think, balk or comply everytime they are told to do something or this is how things are going to be (ground rules)..especially when it comes to something that the slave would prefer not to do. Obey or not obey. Obedience is what makes a slave a slave. When you throw that out when it suits you..your not a slave.

I actually don't agree that obedience is what makes a slave.

Anyone can be obedient whether it be for an hour, an day or a lifetime -- that's a matter of how you were raised and what you think you should do. Tell someone what to do and they do it, that happens all the time in the big old vanilla world.

I think being a slave is being focused on another person first and foremost at all times and to making their life easier even if it makes your life harder or it means doing things that are unpleasant for you. It also means having foresight and a drive to actively make the owner's life easier without orders thus without the need to obey.

In fact I'd much rather have a slave who was very active in their service than one who just obeyed what I said. I'd rather have a slave who could see in my body language or tone of voice that I needed something, they get it, and I have it even before I'm consciously aware of it. Some might argue that this is being obedient to the directions in training or megaorders but it also requires a great deal of thought probably unconscious thought.

Also stopping and thinking is NOT the same as not complying or balking at an order. I'd prefer that any slave of mine ask a question before they ran off to do something than have them return with something that is incorrect. And no, I have yet to meet anyone (master or otherwise) who can actually read another person's thoughts to be 100% certain that they understand exactly what you've ordered. I have met some who require that their sub or slave repeat or paraphrase the commands first before going and doing things as a way to avoid confusion. Personally that would annoy me after about 3 times of the same command.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to starshineowned)

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