It Aint A Gift

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It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 3:59:40 PM

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How many times do I have to read these words " submission is a gift". Fuck you and your gift. If submission is a gift it is a gift to yourself and while selfless gifts to ones self are always appreciated and one always knows just what one needs, saying that ones submission is a gift to the dominant is an expression of the submissives ego, not at all an altruistic expression of giving which is what they would like it to mean.

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have. That being the case it is not a gift, it is a reaching out to your partner for a mutual satisfaction of your needs which in my opinion is exactly what this is about. In the most extreme form the sadist gets his or hers and the masochist does the same, no gifts are exchanged, just mutual needs met and I think that carries out through most bdsm relationships from the most sado maso to the most casual scening.

Here is why this bother me. If what being offered was a true gift, as in ..here take this gift from me to you and do with it what you will , than there are no boundries, no limits, no choices because a gift that comes with conditions is surely not a gift at all and a gift that comes without any conditions can be used, ignored, or tossed in the trash at the receivers whim.

I suppose that in the insane situation where a submissive were to give his or her self with absolutely no conditions or limits at all to a dominant than one could argue it's a gift but I would still say that they are doing it out of their own need and it is still a gift to themselves .

Just my thoughts and yours are most welcome.

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:03:00 PM

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quote:

Just my thoughts and yours are most welcome.

My thought is that you need to chill.

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:05:25 PM

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Joined: 2/15/2005
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As far as I am concerned it is a gift... the submissive chooses to give you submission you do not take it...
Ms. Lynn

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
~~~Anne Bronte~~~
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:07:31 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
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quote:

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have.

not all submission is sexually based, so that theory is out the window right there. i am not in this for sexual gratification, i am a submissive and it matters not if sexual contact is ever achieved at all.

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:11:21 PM

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Joined: 5/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

How many times do I have to read these words " submission is a gift". Fuck you and your gift. If submission is a gift it is a gift to yourself and while selfless gifts to ones self are always appreciated and one always knows just what one needs, saying that ones submission is a gift to the dominant is an expression of the submissives ego, not at all an altruistic expression of giving which is what they would like it to mean.

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have. That being the case it is not a gift, it is a reaching out to your partner for a mutual satisfaction of your needs which in my opinion is exactly what this is about. In the most extreme form the sadist gets his or hers and the masochist does the same, no gifts are exchanged, just mutual needs met and I think that carries out through most bdsm relationships from the most sado maso to the most casual scening.

Here is why this bother me. If what being offered was a true gift, as in ..here take this gift from me to you and do with it what you will , than there are no boundries, no limits, no choices because a gift that comes with conditions is surely not a gift at all and a gift that comes without any conditions can be used, ignored, or tossed in the trash at the receivers whim.

I suppose that in the insane situation where a submissive were to give his or her self with absolutely no conditions or limits at all to a dominant than one could argue it's a gift but I would still say that they are doing it out of their own need and it is still a gift to themselves .

Just my thoughts and yours are most welcome.

One word: Syntax.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:35:22 PM

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ot all submission is sexually based, so that theory is out the window right there. i am not in this for sexual gratification, i am a submissive and it matters not if sexual contact is ever achieved at all.

I am actuall going to agree with Michael here. My submission to Master is not sexually based. He could cut out the sex all together, and I would still be his property, and he would still be my Owner. Mine comes from a mental state, not a physical state.

As for the rest; I do agree. Submission is not a gift; it is something that is within me. I did not give Master my submission; he claimed ME.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:51:41 PM

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From: Pennsylvania
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Yep, let's beat this dead horse some more.

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- Albert Einstein

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RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:52:50 PM

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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quote:

My thought is that you need to chill.

My thought is you have no thought but thanks for your thought

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:56:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Yep, let's beat this dead horse some more.

this from the valley of the deranged............you should thank me for allowing you to add another notch to your buldging posting belt

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:57:10 PM

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Is this a christmas time post? Fuck you and your gift? I think you should wait to post until after Xmas day though. Maybe you'll actually get a few gifts of your own you like, and then you wont be out here yelling at the rest of us about our gifts.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 4:57:56 PM

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From: new york state
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I never saw it as a gift either. Sure, submission isn't something to be taken, but I don't quite give it. It just kind of escapes. And, I agree that's its a pretty selfish thing.

Oh, and the "fuck you and your gift" made me laugh.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 12/13/2006 4:58:36 PM >

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:00:51 PM

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have.

not all submission is sexually based, so that theory is out the window right there. i am not in this for sexual gratification, i am a submissive and it matters not if sexual contact is ever achieved at all.

Read it again michael. I never said that submission was sexually based, in fact I isaid that what I was talking about was in fact more than that.

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:06:45 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
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I agree with the meat, if not the sauce, of this. I'm sure LA is likely to post about two dozen threads on this oh-so-common topic, which polarizes the CAL (Community at Large) just like abortion rights and the death penalty.

There's several different types of relationship models under the heading 'BDSM.' Some could be attributed to submission as a gift and respected as such, others that submission is an intrinsic quality that requires love and support, and some who feel submissives should be treated like the vile, filthy worms they are. None of these opinions or the dozens of possible alternatives are 'wrong' - and in fact, they aren't even mutually exclusive.

Essentially, when someone suggests their own submission is a 'gift' it is usually an assertion that while submissive, they still have a desire to be loved, cared for, and respected. They don't wish to be objectified (at least not regularly) and do not wish to be treated badly simply because they are submissives. It seems that when people suggest other people's submission is a gift, it's an attempt to inject a sense of warmth and humanity in what they perceive as a cold and harsh environment (the CAL.) I think this is partially fueled by a perceived online community, as in my own life I've never met someone who demanded that submissives were doling out gift wrapped submissions - in reality, it was just part of who they were and even secondary to their own romantic aspirations.

Incidentally, the OP didn't suggest that all submission was sexually based.

quote:

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have.

He's saying that if the submission is really just kinky sex games, it's probably not just a apart of you. Otherwise, he believes that submission isn't a choice (to be gifted or otherwise) but rather a trait that requires expression, like love or hunger. He's not belittling submission as being strictly sexual.

He does, however, need to learn you catch more flies with honey than vinagre.

< Message edited by Voltare -- 12/13/2006 5:43:46 PM >

_____________________________

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:08:13 PM

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I never saw it as a gift either. Sure, submission isn't something to be taken, but I don't quite give it. It just kind of escapes. And, I agree that's its a pretty selfish thing.

Oh, and the "fuck you and your gift" made me laugh.

I am in tears with gratitude that someone acutally got what I was trying to say and even got my sarcasm for goodness sakes.

In the Christmas spirit I say to you my twisted friend that you are intelligent beyond your years and posess an almost uncanny ability to see the truth through the fog.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:11:01 PM

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

quote:

My thought is that you need to chill.

My thought is you have no thought but thanks for your thought

I should say your attempt at thought.... but than is an attempt at thought in actuality a thought?

I will have to think about this

< Message edited by Mstr2you -- 12/13/2006 5:14:38 PM >

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:13:52 PM

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Way to make a favorable impression. I am not talking about the premise of a gift. Because really who the heck cares how someone sees it. If you have issues with gifts, avoid the people who view it that way. I would tell you to f that with your opinion, but really how you choose to present yourself doesn't mean much to me.
After getting the gist of things I generally choose avoidance.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:15:36 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have.

not all submission is sexually based, so that theory is out the window right there. i am not in this for sexual gratification, i am a submissive and it matters not if sexual contact is ever achieved at all.

Read it again michael. I never said that submission was sexually based, in fact I isaid that what I was talking about was in fact more than that.

the term "sexual growth" sounded like an implication that submission is sex-based.

perhaps your thought process is flawed.

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Mstr2you)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:20:07 PM

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Joined: 11/21/2006
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If a submissive wants to call their submission a gift, that's fine, providing they are with a dominant who sees it as such. It's all a matter of how the two individuals feel about it. As long as they view it the same way (whether it is something to be given as a gift, something to be seized, or something in between), it's cool.

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:24:41 PM

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

Your submission, assuming this is real to you and not a frivoulous experiment in your sexual growth which is fine by me , is not a choice at all because it is what is inside you, it is part of you, it is a need you have.

not all submission is sexually based, so that theory is out the window right there. i am not in this for sexual gratification, i am a submissive and it matters not if sexual contact is ever achieved at all.

Read it again michael. I never said that submission was sexually based, in fact I isaid that what I was talking about was in fact more than that.

the term "sexual growth" sounded like an implication that submission is sex-based.

perhaps your thought process is flawed.

Perhaps you are a simpleton unable to process basic concepts. I really don't know and neither do you so keep your insults to yourself.

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/13/2006 5:25:10 PM

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Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

I am in tears with gratitude that someone acutally got what I was trying to say

She "got it" long before you ever said it. But give yourself a cookie and a pat on the back for her enlightening her if it makes you feel better.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to Mstr2you)

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