Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: References


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: References Page: <<   < prev  6 7 8 [9] 10   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: References - 12/22/2006 12:52:13 AM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

<...> so I'll just address a few relevant points considering most of what you've said is little more than your individual perspective.

Should I, perhaps, be giving someone else's individual perspective?

Dude - all that anyone writes here is their own individual perspective, or quotes/pointers to someone else's individual perspective.  That's really all that there is - some is factual, and the perspective part comes in on what facts are presented/accepted/ignored, but it's all individual perspective.

quote:

This is Unicorn2's OP:
quote:

When meeting someone on line I always ask "are you a member of your local community?" and "Could you provide me whith references?"  I can and will gladly provide the same.  Yes I am a member of several dungeons amd I can give you people who know me quite well.  I can also provide you with my latest Std and HIV results.  Is it wrong of me to expect, tjis information from a true Dom or Master.  If you aren't a member of a dungeon, or known by someone somewhere as a Dom, then why should I trust you?

While I'm sure she had no malicious intent, a lot of reasonable people are entitled to take offense at her choice of phrase here.  As the first to reply, I did just that!  And the moralistic conclusion of that last sentence has certainly fired up the pro lobby, too!

Oh, my - jumping on the poor OP because of a turn of phrase. <sigh>

Personally, I thought it an entirely good question - if you're an unknown, and refuse to give references, then what else DO you have to offer to make someone feel safe in trusting you?

Rather than answer the straightforward question, you took umbrage - and it's beginning to look like you're trying to corner the market in it.

quote:

[...] The message is quite clear, there are two distinct sides to BDSM; those who frequent communities and the rest who can't be trusted.  And that is simply UNACCEPTABLE!

There are folks whose trust will be hard to earn if you don't have a local reputation for honorable dealings and honesty - and some of them won't bother to look at you closely enough to see if you're one of the exceptions.  Not my way, but their call.  Deal.

Personally, I never trust anyone until I have reason to do so. It's perhaps unkind, but it keeps me safer. Good reputation in the local community is one good starting place.  You have yet to offer a reasonable alternative other than taking someone at their word - which has been known to bite me on the ass on occasion.

I'm in early "haven't met for coffee" stages of negotiation with an interesting woman, whose first email mentioned local groups where I could ask after her.  This does not automatically mean she's to be trusted - but it does pretty much automatically preclude the possibility that she's one of those "12 years as a 24/7 slave, but really has no experience at all" types I meet now and again.  It's a starting place, and a useful tool for getting to there.

In return, I'm pretty open about being the guy who (mis)manages TIES - so finding out that yeah, I've been around for over a decade, and seem to know (sorta) what I'm doing, is something she has available to her.

A useful tool that weeds out the imaginary ones and the wannabes - so why does it give you conniptions?

quote:

This is also where you're in obvious error.  The "OTW" message (within this thread) comes from the puritans who refer each other as a matter of course, *starting* with the OP.

I always disinfect my toys after sessions - always.  Others give the toys (or those parts that could have come in contact with bodily fluids) to the subject as a gift.  I have my true way, they have theirs.

Nobody said "anyone who doesn't use references is wrong" - some said "I prefer to use references".  The OP said, in effect, "I like references - do you have an alternative that'd work?" 

You, on the other hand, got upset because some other people do use references.

And you call us One True Wayers.

 
quote:

I don't have a problem with that beyond A), it's not for me and B), the highly offensive implication that those who don't refer are hiding something. 
 
My way is simply that, my right to choose.  I don't preach to the rare fem/sub seeking references;

Oddly enough, you did - look at message #2 in this thread right here.

Since you declined to address any of the points I made about OTWism, I'll jump on Rover's bandwagon here - you're simply not worth debating with - not on this subject, at least.

Midnight Writer


_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: References - 12/22/2006 1:25:29 PM   
TopinPa


Posts: 111
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		Just meeting someone for the first time if you're skeptical I can see asking if anybody can vouch for a person but damn....

I think asking for a medical history might be a bit much; just use protection if you're not sure


(in reply to Serenityy)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: References - 12/22/2006 2:21:34 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

Should I, perhaps, be giving someone else's individual perspective?

Errr, which is exactly what I acknowledged, no?

quote:

Dude - all that anyone writes here is their own individual perspective, or quotes/pointers to someone else's individual perspective.  That's really all that there is - some is factual, and the perspective part comes in on what facts are presented/accepted/ignored, but it's all individual perspective.

Lol, tha hell you say....

quote:

Oh, my - jumping on the poor OP because of a turn of phrase. <sigh>

Personally, I thought it an entirely good question - if you're an unknown, and refuse to give references, then what else DO you have to offer to make someone feel safe in trusting you?

Rather than answer the straightforward question, you took umbrage - and it's beginning to look like you're trying to corner the market in it.

A fine example of *your* individual perspective - and duly acknowledged. *S*

quote:

There are folks whose trust will be hard to earn if you don't have a local reputation for honorable dealings and honesty - and some of them won't bother to look at you closely enough to see if you're one of the exceptions.  Not my way, but their call.  Deal.

Personally, I never trust anyone until I have reason to do so. It's perhaps unkind, but it keeps me safer. Good reputation in the local community is one good starting place.  You have yet to offer a reasonable alternative other than taking someone at their word - which has been known to bite me on the ass on occasion.

I'm in early "haven't met for coffee" stages of negotiation with an interesting woman, whose first email mentioned local groups where I could ask after her.  This does not automatically mean she's to be trusted - but it does pretty much automatically preclude the possibility that she's one of those "12 years as a 24/7 slave, but really has no experience at all" types I meet now and again.  It's a starting place, and a useful tool for getting to there.

In return, I'm pretty open about being the guy who (mis)manages TIES - so finding out that yeah, I've been around for over a decade, and seem to know (sorta) what I'm doing, is something she has available to her.

A useful tool that weeds out the imaginary ones and the wannabes - so why does it give you conniptions?

Conniptions?  Me?  Lol, I'm not the "one-true-way ist"; if this is your way of doing things, I'm fine with that.  I'm certainly not questioning your veracity of being a "true Dom or Master" as the OP has because I don't feel obliged to do things the supposed and apparently accepted community way.

quote:

Nobody said "anyone who doesn't use references is wrong" - some said "I prefer to use references".

Crikey, round n round the merry-go-round goes....  Rover esp has taken almost everyone to task who questions the value of references.  And the overwhelming implication (from the pro lobby) is that if you can't or won't provide them, you're not to be trusted.   Except you of course, you don't trust anyone first up - full stop.

quote:

The OP said, in effect, "I like references - do you have an alternative that'd work?"
 
The OP said what???  This is just delusional (but ok, still individual perspective... lol).  The OP said (in effect) "Here's mine, where's yours?" then questioned why anyone without and/or not known in a community should be trusted.
 
Her very question:
"Is it wrong of me to expect, tjis information from a true Dom or Master."
 
As previously stated, I don't actually have a problem with the OP other than I think her question and conclusions are more naive than malicious (or even pious, given the collective attitude of several who have "taken to the cause").  Maybe she isn't aware that a good deal of people enjoy the lifestyle at purely a private relationship level.

quote:

Since you declined to address any of the points I made about OTWism, I'll jump on Rover's bandwagon here - you're simply not worth debating with - not on this subject, at least.

I addressed it in post #154; previous page.  Rover seems an excellent reference for you; for each other, even....
 
Focus.

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: References - 12/22/2006 2:54:57 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Focus,
If you are so adament about being a person who ejoys the lifestyle at purely a private relationship level then why don't you take yourself off this forum and stay private?




_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: References - 12/22/2006 3:00:20 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
My way is simply that, my right to choose.  I don't preach to the rare fem/sub seeking references;

Oddly enough, you did - look at message #2 in this thread right here.



Hmm...Focus neglected to respond to this comment.


_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: References - 12/22/2006 7:19:17 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Focus,
If you are so adament about being a person who ejoys the lifestyle at purely a private relationship level then why don't you take yourself off this forum and stay private?

Where I live, I can actually access this and other Forums from the *privacy* of my own home.  Can't you? 
 
The wonders of technology meets freedom of choice....
 
Focus.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: References - 12/22/2006 8:21:28 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
My way is simply that, my right to choose.  I don't preach to the rare fem/sub seeking references;

Oddly enough, you did - look at message #2 in this thread right here.



Hmm...Focus neglected to respond to this comment.

Fyi, I rarely respond when someone hacks one of my statements to a point of changing context then implies what's left is still my words.
 
But ok, since you've apparently taken up the baton from Archer, I'll accomodate you this one time.
 
When emdoub posted: "look at message #2 in this thread right here.", I initially thought he literally meant 'right here', ie a copy/paste - but there was none.  If he meant 'right here' as in this thread, I was always aware message #2 was my own post....  And there was NO preaching there beyond emdoub's *individual perspective*.
 
Further, the statement emdoub hacked originally read:
"My way is simply that, my right to choose.  I don't preach to the rare fem/sub seeking references; the one time it happened we simply went our separates.  Yet I have used them to attend BDSM functions on occasion."
 
That would read as the one time that particular fem/sub wanted references, NOT the one time I allegedly preached.
 
If emdoub meant some other part of message #2, he needs to be more specific.
 
Focus.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: References - 12/22/2006 8:38:22 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Focus,
Thank you for amusing me from your fantasy world.


_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: References - 12/23/2006 2:20:09 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		You're welcome.
 
Focus.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: References - 12/23/2006 5:58:57 PM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Hmm...Focus neglected to respond to this comment.


It seems to be easier that way - if he can't sidestep the point, dismiss it as "little more than your individual perspective", or whine about other folks's behavior as a distraction, then he simply ignores it.

Sometimes it takes being disingenous, like where he was unclear if I meant the second post on this thread - but he'll ignore anything he can't refute.

That's enough of my time wasted - I'd thought we'd been having a conversation.

Midnight Writer


_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: References - 12/23/2006 7:59:32 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Hmm...Focus neglected to respond to this comment.


It seems to be easier that way - if he can't sidestep the point, dismiss it as "little more than your individual perspective", or whine about other folks's behavior as a distraction, then he simply ignores it.

Sometimes it takes being disingenous, like where he was unclear if I meant the second post on this thread - but he'll ignore anything he can't refute.

That's enough of my time wasted - I'd thought we'd been having a conversation.

And yet "this comment" has been specifically addressed nearly a full day *before* you put up this post - so who's doing the whining?  And the side-stepping, considering I've debunked most of your previous effort without reply!  lol
 
As with Lod, you fire blanks at me and live rounds into your own foot.  To you and Elegant, the topic is "references"; is this all you've really got?  Otherwise, this thread has surely reached its "use by date".
 
Focus.

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: References - 12/24/2006 12:22:20 AM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Hmm...Focus neglected to respond to this comment.


It seems to be easier that way - if he can't sidestep the point, dismiss it as "little more than your individual perspective", or whine about other folks's behavior as a distraction, then he simply ignores it.

Sometimes it takes being disingenous, like where he was unclear if I meant the second post on this thread - but he'll ignore anything he can't refute.

That's enough of my time wasted - I'd thought we'd been having a conversation.

And yet "this comment" has been specifically addressed nearly a full day *before* you put up this post - so who's doing the whining?

Y'know - at this point, I don't really *care* which "this comment" you're referring to, or why you feel that duration in thread is relevant to points being made or not.  Some of us have other things to do, and can't live online.
quote:

And the side-stepping, considering I've debunked most of your previous effort without reply!  lol

Precicely - you don't even address a point - you just claim that you've debunked it offstage. 

Laugh all you want - but you'll need to find a different dog to wag from here out.

I don't suppose you even know what "<plonk>" means...

Midnight Writer


_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: References - 12/24/2006 1:50:49 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub
Some of us have other things to do, and can't live online.

<yawn>
 
Yet here you are - petulance personified et al....
 
Focus.

(in reply to emdoub)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: References - 12/26/2006 10:05:25 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I don't play in public. I'm neither an exhibitionist nor a voyeur. Plus there isn't a much within an hour's drive of me, and real clubs are two hour plus travel times.

We did it the old fashioned way. We took our time, talked about everything that could possibly matter and dated until we felt secure in the relationship.

Additionally, there are careers where being out could be a death's knell such as teaching, being a Boy Scout leader, etc. And there are personal reasons not to be known such as having an ex try to prove you unfit to have custody just because of your tastes in your sex life.

(in reply to Serenityy)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: References - 12/29/2006 1:00:45 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Fast Reply to no one in particular:

I was doing some research, ran across this article from Jack Rinella, thought it was pertinent to this topic and that some folks might enjoy reading it.
 
http://albertasafecall.ca/Article6.html
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: References - 12/29/2006 2:18:26 PM   
Hissltviolet


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		...very nicely put...full of rational thinking...

_____________________________

ETERNALLY/INFERNALLY
Lord Bear's violet
(SLRN) 876-742-285
~**~
please, visit Yahoo 360
and
http://www.freewebs.com/fabricconcepts/

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: References - 12/29/2006 2:48:55 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Fast Reply to no one in particular:

I was doing some research, ran across this article from Jack Rinella, thought it was pertinent to this topic and that some folks might enjoy reading it.

A few points from the article:
 
Despite the fact a body was buried in a park, the article doesn't seem to suggest the death was anything more than an accident.  I can see some people panicking over the death of a virtual stranger from overseas that they've been intimate with and choosing to dispose of the body rather than alert authorities.  The article not only made specific mention that both parties were into breath play but the author then went on to the virtues of safe play etc.  Neither would seem so relevant if the deceased was maliciously lured to his death. 
 
This from my own post (#147) in response to emdoub:
 
Focus:
>> "I feel there's a clear and distinct line between BDSM as a personal relationship dynamic and wandering along to some club or function and getting it on with ropes and whips with virtually anyone willing.  With the latter, I can understand a need to "be known" by someone if that's your BDSM but I'll continue to call references dingy and repugnant as a precursor to a potentially committed and loving longterm D/s or M/s relationship.  Takes all the romance out before it's even begun!" <<
 
Now I gather from the article that this Jack Rinella is another who's into casual play with anyone willing.  Which doesn't change MY views on references one iota - if *your* BDSM is mostly about the play, I would support your reliance on references and shots etc; and have said so.... 
 
Indeed, the article actually supports my belief that there's a "one-true-way" attitude amongst you community dwellers....   What is so difficult to grasp that BDSM can also be the foundation of a committed, intimate and *monogamous* relationship?  One that isn't just focused on "play".  Were all your vanilla relationships just about sex and technique?  Or you didn't have intimate relationships; just sex with anyone willing?  Did you get/give references for one night stands etc?  I've got all the time it takes to earn mutual trust with the right woman; NOT just the vouched and innoculated submissive "meat" within her!
 
Focus.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: References - 12/29/2006 2:50:48 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		If you have an issue with Jack's article, please take it up with him.  I can provide his email address to you if you need it.  Please do share with us how he responds to you.
 
Beyond that, I find no useful purpose discussing anything with you.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 12/29/2006 2:58:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: References - 12/29/2006 3:11:12 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

If you have an issue with Jack's article, please take it up with him.  I can provide his email address to you if you need it.  Please do share with us how he responds to you.
 
Beyond that, I find no useful purpose discussing anything with you.

Lol, I have *no* issue with the actual article whatsoever.  The circumstances contained within seem merely a vehicle for Jack Rinella advocating the "community way" - something you obviously identify with or you wouldn't have revived this particular thread....
 
Focus.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: References - 12/29/2006 3:30:12 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am not responding to any one particular and or post made.
 
I do want to mention, that to some life is a fanstasy, as it seems to good to be true.  Yet, to some who have lived it--they see it as their personal reality. 
 
We have witnessed in the media, where the 'rich kids' with money and will inherit money, live in their own little social circles.  They had no idea how other people lived and how hard they were trying to make it through life, just to maintain a bit of comfort.  With the average person connected to the rich, famous and nobility class kids, they had to work as a team.  Each learned lessons big time--it was more valuable then the money won.  Both sides learned 'respect.'
 
Further,  I want to add, that the individuals who live across the pond, in the UK, Australia, New Zeland, Germany, Italy, Austria, etc.; have their own culture which exposes them to seeing things in so many ways differently, similiar and spot on.  It would be a shame not to take advantage of some 'cross-culture' training and how they see through their mind's eyes. 
 
In addition, I would like to proffer the thought about those who are abroad and are active lifestyle.  They may have references in quantity and quality.  I think in my mind's eyes I see; that it is regretable that across the seas their references, their qualifications and the like are held in low regard.  I am sure it can be in reverse; the reason I say this--what is big name in leather circles in the USA, may not be in France, Australia, and or Spain, etc.  So, it really goes down to the boiler plate of dealing with individuals with and or without references.  At times, there is no way to validate references abroad.  There are times where it is impossible to validate references, as they're abroad and passed on, etc.
 
In summary, we (in a general sense) are duty bound to exhaust all the resources we have at our (in general sense) disposal but, to keep an open mind to others who cannot provide references for a good many honest reasons.  There are a lot of players and gamers in the scene as well as in the vanilla, the work place and so forth.  Furthermore, in my mind's eyes I see; that using quotes of another person; perhaps in the leather community, local leadership and articles; they are good references to read but; it boils down to their expression of their personal beliefs.  Some individuals are known to be anti- this or that, which taints the knowledge and or information.  Whereas, the lifestyle is a 'general' thing.  What makes it 'our' (in general and in a possessive manner) lifestyle; is what we (in general) do in our own homes, castles, ranch, apartment, townhouse, RV, penthouse, double wide house trailer and other dwellings and or spaces. 
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  6 7 8 [9] 10   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: References Page: <<   < prev  6 7 8 [9] 10   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.086