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Love and Death - 12/17/2006 12:57:52 AM

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
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In in a 2000's midsummer night, i met Michael. GeminiTop was his name in the
sm chat where we met and with lightspeed we moved to the telephone.
After 8 hours in the morning dawn i said: "I never thought, that you exist
on this world, so please, if you decide for whatever reason, that our paths
shall not longer cross, let it be known to me." And he answered: "From
this moment on, i will forever be reachable for you."

I was shocked and stayed this way. I was never one to exchange
promises and make demands in the first night.

February 2001 was the evening of our first meeting, in Berlin at the main
station. In the time between we decided about our lives and the way we
wanted to live, we tried to come to terms with our feelings, our guilt and
our responsibilities.

On the fourth of August 2001 we met in Hamburg, main station (we seem
to have a thing with trains) and moved in together.

2 divorces, 3 moves and 1 cancer later we are in Berlin, again.

Michael cancer last year focussed all and after a deep crying some
minutes ago, i realized, that this love, the way i love him is a Love and
Death road. I never loved like this before (and there was a lot of love in my
life) and i will not love like that (i doubt, that there is the capacity to love
like this more then one time).

And that was the reason, i was so terribly afraid last year, because
michael is (after my suicidal mother, which 20+ suicide attempts, trained
me against being afraid of loss) the first person, where i can not imagine
life without him. My phantasy is nonexistent, when i try to imagine
existing without him.

So my questions to you are:

How do cope with loving like this?
Does wiiitwd make a difference?
If you not have found a love like that, would you like to or not? If not, why?

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 12/17/2006 1:51:22 AM >

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 3:06:03 AM

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I feel i have found a love like this, i havent had it threatened by anything like what you have with the cancer and i cant imagine how scared you must of been . Sometimes the enormitiy of my love for him shakes me and scares me that its so strong that i cant imagine him out of my life, but then i think thats just what love is when you have really found it. And then anagin the cynics out there will just say its the ride of emotions and a feeling that will pass or be proven wrong so who knows i just enjoy the fact ive found someone i love that much who i am pretty sure feels the same.
i hope yourparnter is in better health now

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(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 4:02:17 AM

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Zendragoness, we have corresponded on the other side and you know that my Master has kidney failure and diabetes, among other things. He had His problems when we met and He was totally honest and upfront with me and let me make the decision to have a relationship with Him. I have lived in Australia with Him now for 3 years and we got married last weekend.

My thoughts? I decided that I would rather have a limited amount of time with Him, than not have any at all. The love we share is so special to me, even if we weren't in the lifestyle I think we would be together. The D/s is the icing on the cake of our relationship. If He should die before me, and the odds are stacked in favour of this happening, then I will have lots of very precious memories to sustain me, and absolutely no regrets

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:01:03 AM

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Zendragoness, i am sorry to hear of your distress. i once thought i had found such a love but discovered over the years that i had fallen in love with an ideal not the person. That too was painful. In my professional life i have seen many die and cared for them and their families during and after, my experience has shown me that though there is indeed immense pain involved there is also great reward in the shaing of the love and of the pain as well. my parents had such a love and i feared my father would die soon after my mother but he continued for almost ten more years. When i asked him why he simply stated that though dead she was always with him for love as beyond space and time and even life and death and that she would not want him to give up and die but to cocntinue to live andf help others as she had. Even with my experience though i do not feel that i have the words to comfort you in your fear and your pain but i would recommend a small book by a Lebanese poet Kahlil Gibran called The Prophet, i am quite sure it has been translated into German, i find much comfort in his words which encompass many topics including love and death. i will keep yoou in my prayers.

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sweet bobbie

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:17:52 AM

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canuplease, thank you for your answer. Michael is in better health now. 33% percent with his grading and situation die in the first year, and another 33 in the next two. So at 1 year, 9 months a clean bill of health at the moment, things are looking good.

The cancer was only a focusing instrument, and so i find myself mirrored in your descriptrion of your love to your partner. A love that was and is after 6 years still stronger than anything i ever experienced. What cynic people say and feel is often an expression of envy, so that should not interfere with your feelings.

What i tried to describe, was that with meeting Michael a lifelong safety concerning other people vanished, the safety that i can still live on without the other. This self assuredness is gone, with the decision to love this man, i accepted the process.

I wish your young love many, many turns:-); (i know used for birthdays, but as every love enriches us all, a love, the synergy between people is like a birth).

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 12/17/2006 6:35:00 AM >

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:18:28 AM

MaryT

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Joined: 12/8/2006
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I doubt that wiiwd makes a difference in grief. It's a universal.

A friend who had recently lost her mom said something to me when I was struggling with grief over my own mother's death: "This is the price we pay for loving so much." I was okay with that - I'd rather love and pay the price. I wouldn't have chosen to love less in order to be spared the pain.

FWIW,

MaryT

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:20:50 AM

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From: Berlin/Germany
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Rayne58, you newlywed, you! As i wrote to you on the other side, our thoughts were with the both of you the whole day, we were happy for you.
You know full well, that you are in the deepest sense of the word an inspiration for me, and that a lot of strength to endure in the last year was taken from the words in your postings and mails.

But, i am buddhistically challenged by this love, it is the first damm time, that i do not want to let go, to wordsworth you could say (Stop all the clocks...), and i am still disturbed by that.

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aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to Rayne58)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:29:54 AM

Posts: 372
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From: Berlin/Germany
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SweetBobbie, thank you for your words and your prayers. What your father said, is what i try to reach again, this sureness. There is only that moment now, and no fear from the past and now hope in the future should cloud the clearness of this beautiful moment, a moment where due to the words of your father that you gave to me, i feel a bit peace and calm coming to me. And that every moment is just as precious and important, it is this deep anchored safety i try regain. I know Kahlil Gibran, he is translated in german.

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aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:39:45 AM

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From: Berlin/Germany
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MaryT, thank you for your answer. I doubt it too, but you have sure read or heard: The love with wiitwd is the highest, truest or whatever possible.

"This is the price we pay for loving so much."

Indeed.

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aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to MaryT)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:48:06 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness
How do cope with loving like this?

It's not really a coping, so much as it is what it is. As long as there is emotional intimacy and you are fulfilled, then it is what you accept. I had to go through a lot of these sorts of questions in my first relationship with someone more than 20 years older than myself- recognizing that there was a very likely chance that this person would not be in my life until the point of my own death and what that meant to me.

It was something I accepted, and still accept. My relationships aren't built on what we will have, but what we DO have.

quote:

Does wiiitwd make a difference?

Nope.

quote:

If you not have found a love like that, would you like to or not? If not, why?

I do not wish to be involved with someone who cannot be emotionally intimate with me, and I honestly do not wish to be involved with someone who will likely not spend my whole life with.

But I accept that life brings up all sorts of things I'd never wish for and still be right for me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 6:57:03 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness

So my questions to you are:

How do cope with loving like this?
Does wiiitwd make a difference?
If you not have found a love like that, would you like to or not? If not, why?

You cope because you must cope. It is what he wants. He cannot finish his life now. It is up to you to live it out for him. Make him proud knowing he is still with you in your heart.
Love doesn't have boundries. If you found a love like that you'd be a fool not to embrace it, if you've never felt that way you've never felt love. You've missed out on so much.
I've been to funerals in the 3 digits so far in my life. As each year passes we are moving closer and closer to 4 digits. It never gets any easier.
Though if you look at the other side of things. Would you rather had never loved and lost? Never had those good times?
If you can believe they never leave you as long as you keep them in your heart. It helps immensly. Knowing they are always with you wherver you go.

You will make it through, you just need to heal.

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 7:01:55 AM

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quote:

i can not imagine life without him.

When we give ourselves so completely to someone, to feel their potential loss to us is like deliberately ripping our heart out with our own hands. To actually lose them is catastrophic, we have given them ourselves and when they are no more, where is our self but with them? Yet they are no longer in existance and so our own non existance is felt. There is no life for us beyond their death. ...yes I've felt that way.

But....

He is there now, so do not trouble your mind with potentials, it will only lead to darkness and sorrow and you will miss the moments that are now alive.

Day by day, enjoy the moments...

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 8:04:40 AM

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thankyou zendragoness it nice to hear of other people who have the same feelings i have often sat and wondered if im going crazy as people dont often talk about the strength of their feelings re love
i sometimes have to pinch myself when i think about how much my life has changed and how deep my love runs for someone it scares me i will lose it and i cant remember a time in my life when ididnt have it now its all consuming. I just try and think that if i do ever lose this my life wil always have been so much better for being able to experience and that i shall always look back toit as one of the best times in my life

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 8:04:56 AM

crouchingtigress

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Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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quote:

How do cope with loving like this?

one magical miracle day at a time....even sometimes one magical hour at a time

quote:

Does wiiitwd make a difference?

wiitwd is love each other for who we are and what we are...the D and the s only bring a formalized structure to that love.

quote:

If you not have found a love like that, would you like to or not? If not, why?

i have had love like that, every time i loved, to me it is not worth loving someone if you love does not take on the shape and form of infinite possibility's, deep intimacy, and holding hands forever through time.

i am so happy that you have found this love. no matter what it costs, its a small price to pay.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 12/17/2006 8:06:24 AM >

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 8:57:52 AM

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Joined: 10/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness
What i tried to describe, was that with meeting Michael a lifelong safety concerning other people vanished, the safety that i can still live on without the other. This self assuredness is gone, with the decision to love this man, i accepted the process.

I too know this new fear only too well. While Daddy is in great health, I know that if anything ever happened to him, I would be but a shadow of my self pre-Him. I had very known true unconditional love before this relationship, not even by my own parents and can not even bare thethought of life with out this emotion. I can only pray for a long life together because I really do not want to face the reality of what I would have to do in order to be ok with out him in my life. But I wouldn't have it any other way, a moment of this bliss makes all the insainity I have suffered in this life worth while and given me a clearer perspective.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 12:11:38 PM

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From: Stourport-England
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I wish I had never loved.

There was only one who had any interest in me, and before that I had made myself immune to love and even friendship, because both of those had always been absent from my life or when they had come along, turned out to be abusive. But, I succumbed.

It is five years since the break up of my one and only relationship, on New Year's Day. A relationship which had lasted fifteen years. I believed, with naivete bordering on insanity, that I was loved, that I could trust. Stupid. Even more stupid that I brought it all on myself through the criminal act of revealing feelings.

For in the meantime, I had lost my immunity to feelings and emotion. Five years on, there is still not one night I go to bed that I do not wake from with regret. Five lonely years on, and I know damned sure that as wonderful a person as I am, I am damned to loneliness forever, and regretful that I no longer have the ability to switch off the hurt of the world and the desire to love and be loved.

The only way now to solve my situation is suicide. I have to bide until 2018, when my youngest will be grown up, though to be honest as the weeks go by, I grow less sure that I will manage to achieve that. It could be said to be selfish of me, but by then I will have been alone and in despair for sixteen years. Indeed, I'm only sticking around now for the sake of my kids, who would be doomed to poverty without me. I shall provide as much as I can for them, and sixteen years' effort to do that I hardly regard as selfish.

Some will say that I am being silly, that I am depressed and so on, and cannot see a way forward. Or that love will come my way again, and I am being too gloomy. But the fact is, I am defective, I am a reject, I am an embarassment, I am undesirable. Its a strange mixture for the counselling types - a healthy sense of self esteem, along with a clear view of a hopeless situation which can have only one characteristic and one outcome.

Dont get me wrong; I get plenty of interest, but only up to a point. Up to that point all is well, but once that point is reached, the defective stamp and reject label is applied and the person feels embarassment and all desire evaporates for them. Such is the way for the likes of me. An HIV infected drug user with syphilis has a better chance than me. Simple.

It wouldnt be so bad, if only it didnt hurt. If only I could recapture that ability to feel nothing, desire and fear nothing. If only I had never loved, never succumbed to feeling, I could now be without despair.

E

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RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 12:18:14 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness
...
How do cope with loving like this?
...

With gratitude for the opportunity.

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 1:35:19 PM

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I once met a man, it was cataclysmic. Like some thunder bolt had struck me. I who had never loved another until i was 27 years old. Fell hook, line and SINKER.

Like a teen, i gave everything. I experienced a love that we had, that i know i will never have again. That giving everything of yourself to another. For 7 yrs, i had the romance of a life time. I will never regret having that.
But any love that intense, is going to be very intense in its exit. Which took 5 yrs, of slow death, more pain than my heart could take.
He developed a mental illness. He tore my heart out. Ripped it to shreds. I was devastated. I fell to pieces, then bit by bit, recovered.

It has now been 3 yrs. I experience my love for him as a negative now. What was once so beautiful, is now so bitter. 3 yrs on, and ive decided to do the legal part of our separation, and i remininiss about it all. Feelings and memories long buried rise to the surface, and im back on that painful road again, but for the final time thankfully.

He didnt die, i didnt die. But our beautiful love and life did.

I will never love another that way. But im glad that i had such a love. To of gone through life, without experiencing love such as that, would of been a waste of my life i think.

I differentiate between two states of love, there is loving someone, and then there is being 'in love' with someone. I know i will not experience being 'in love' again. But i have learned to love.
littleone

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 2:46:50 PM

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My two cents. Is there a true connection between life and love... two completely different topics. one definitely being finite the other with more mystical qualities virtually impossible to define.

I realize that on a bdsm site it is understandable, I guess, to hear mostly subs talk about the prospects of not being able to continue in the abscence of said spouse/dom. Why is this? Because you are nothing without them? You have no worth now they are gone? I cannot think anyone would find interest in a person who does not shine their own light or have something unique to give, offer or understand...Many of you sound like caricatures of actual living beings.

It's not the loss of love. The problem is You.

Get better,find help.take up needle point....do something that validates your existence....It's in all in you never in someone else.

out.

D.G.

Dr Phil I rescind my throne,

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)

RE: Love and Death - 12/17/2006 2:57:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness
...
How do cope with loving like this?
...

With gratitude for the opportunity.

That was beautifully said, Noah.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Noah)

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