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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:24:17 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser

I would just like to say after reading all this is.......where in the heck would a slave find a mate willing to marry them when there is an Owner involved unless that mate wants to be owned as well?!?!

Perhaps you will need to take my word for it, but there are women on this planet who are worth it...

Taggard

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:27:41 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

The Owner doesn't borrow from my boyfriend, the boyfriend is allowed use from the Owner. Being married wouldn't change that.

Emerald,
I see no issue with this position. your situation is consistent with mine in that you have responsibility for obedience without question to ONE person - your owner. That's my point exactly. Even if he ordered you to marry another and serve another his ultimate authority would be the deciding factor. I agree with this position.

The question was from the other side of the issue. If you didn't have an owner and were married, under the standard definition of that institution, I think you'd agree that your owner would replace any authority your marriage had within it. For instance, your owner has decision over if you should work. If he said your work time interferes with your service to him and you should quit, you'd do it even if as a result your marriage household income couldn't afford that decision.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:36:21 PM

ruffnecksbabygir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir
any particular reason you do not want a 24/7 relationship....

I do want a 24/7 relationship, just not a D/s based one. I have found that I want my primary relationship to be one that does not come with a power exchange dynamic.

Really more the results of trial and error then anything I have ever thought about or can explain.

Taggard

interesting....thanks for sharing : ) i am not sure if that is what celestia was refering to tho. From the op i was under the impression that the situation was a married person not able to satisfy their submissive nature within the vanilla marriage so they were seeking a Master outside of the marriage.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:42:04 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser

I would just like to say after reading all this is.......where in the heck would a slave find a mate willing to marry them when there is an Owner involved unless that mate wants to be owned as well?!?!

One lives in MD...he's poly if you want to meet him!

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:43:51 PM

sweetpleaser

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Taggard; let me ask you this. If you were married to your life partner and she took on an Owner, how would you feel? Would you just back off because she is worth it? Just try to imagine it. Obviously she is otherwise committed. How long would you live that way, seriously. I personally believe it would be harder for men to accept the situation than it would be for a woman because of that primal urge to control the den. JMO.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:46:05 PM

sweetpleaser

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In a Poly situation I could see it happening but that falls under my original post, he would have to be under the owner as well, technically.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 1:58:37 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser
If you were married to your life partner and she took on an Owner, how would you feel?

Any women with whom I can envision having that kind of relationship with would only pick an owner who would not harm our relationship. So, yes, I would let her do it if that is what would make her happy.

I am not possessive. At one point in my marriage, we tried an "open" relationship. My wife met a man online and went to vist him in England. I helped her pack and I even wrote the inscription on the gift she gave him (it was a two time zone watch that was set for London and NYC. The inscription I wrote read, "Across the ocean, my heart beats in time with yours." ). I met her at the airport with flowers when she got back.

Yeah, I think I could handle it...

Taggard

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 2:15:05 PM

sweetpleaser

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quote:

I am not possessive

Well, maybe this is the key. I have never met a dominant man who was not possessive. He always wanted to be the center of attention. To reference Emerald's scenario, I would have had to keep visits to a sick mother short because I was neglecting Him. So, maybe what I have seen in my little world is that marriage is a form of ownership.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 2:18:22 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser
I have never met a dominant man who was not possessive.

We exist...though we certainly are not the norm.

quote:

So, maybe what I have seen in my little world is that marriage is a form of ownership.

For most, it is indeed...has been for centuries.

Taggard

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 2:27:21 PM

Hickory

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

... I am not possessive. At one point in my marriage, we tried an "open" relationship. My wife met a man online and went to vist him in England. I helped her pack and I even wrote the inscription on the gift she gave him (it was a two time zone watch that was set for London and NYC. The inscription I wrote read, "Across the ocean, my heart beats in time with yours." ). I met her at the airport with flowers when she got back.

Yeah, I think I could handle it...
Taggard

You are also decidedly NOT vanilla. Your expectations, understandings and consideration are not typical of most people.

I still believe that most people cannot serve two masters, and that most "masters" (in or out of the lifestyle) will be ultimately challenged by anthing other than exclusivity.

It is also possible to "have an affair without having sex". Marriage is far more than a long term pickup. For me, MOST of what sex is happens between the ears, not the legs. Any intense, devotional relationship IS standing on the same ground as that covered by marriage vows.

Maybe they can coexist, maybe not. Each one must decide for himself or herself.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 3:32:05 PM

celestia

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Thanks for all the response. I like the way the thread is going, but I must bring up the second part again, for those of you who state that a slave can not be owned (therefore not be a slave) if they are married. How does one fulfill that need? Given the partner in the situation is vanilla and does not wish to be involved in this lifestyle and for the sake of further argument is aware of the need in their spouse?

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 4:26:21 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hickory

I still believe that most people cannot serve two masters, and that most "masters" (in or out of the lifestyle) will be ultimately challenged by anthing other than exclusivity.

There is no question that this is true. Most people need to be the reason for happiness in their significant other's life. I just need for my sig. other(s) to be happy.

Taggard

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 4:46:10 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celestia
for those of you who state that a slave can not be owned (therefore not be a slave) if they are married. How does one fulfill that need? Given the partner in the situation is vanilla and does not wish to be involved in this lifestyle and for the sake of further argument is aware of the need in their spouse?

As long as your partner (husband) knows this, and is willing to allow you to seek this outside, and as long as he is not jealous or annoyed by the potential of your being controlled by another, than you can try it...
I recommend being very open about what you can offer (not 24/7, and type of service you are able/willing to offer, sexual or not, etc), so that your potential part time owner is aware of what he and you are getting into. If your husband is okay with it and you are too, than I don't think pursuing it is a problem... How are you able to determine you won't become emotionally connected to your Master? Are you the type of person who can make those distinctions, and keep a detached attitude? M

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 4:58:52 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

I am not possessive.

Not to butt in here, but isn't "non-possessive owner" an oxymoron?

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 5:05:20 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

I am not possessive.

Not to butt in here, but isn't "non-possessive owner" an oxymoron?

(Your butting in is always welcome!)

I don't think so. There is a difference in "possessing" and "being possessive". Without pulling out a dictionary, "being possessive" has connotations of an unwillingness to share what you possess.

At least that was how I was using the word.

Taggard

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 5:32:11 PM

5425

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I have been married
He was a Dominate
But also know that there are truely great MASTERS out there
Who know and understand the hungerings of a truely masochist or what ever type slave you may be
They will feed those hungers to be a owned slave and are not threatened by marriage.
They may have a wife and family too who are vanilla
In here in this realm there is room for all to find a way to fulfill their hungers and yearnings
Though I am single I have had the yearning from both sides
If you truly are married and yearn for a MASTER he is out there
You just have to seerch till he is found
After all as submissives do we not serch till we find THEM after all.
We allow for DOM/MASTER/DOMME to be married so why not the slave.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 5:35:47 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

In Celestia's situation, she must be rather picky in the Master she chooses, as she must find one who has no issue with allowing her to be married.

I find this perspective particularly interesting...

L

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 5:42:13 PM

onceburned

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

quote:

In Celestia's situation, she must be rather picky in the Master she chooses, as she must find one who has no issue with allowing her to be married.

I find this perspective particularly interesting...

But surely all three people involved would have to agree to the relationship(s). Open communications would seem to be a must.

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/1/2005 9:42:29 PM

MidnightWriter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
NO, by any definition you can't own anyone married to another.

How then do you explain that actual slaves in the pre-Civil War south were allowed to marry?

They were more "owned" then anyone on this board, and yet they were indeed married to people who were not their owners.

Taggard

Yeah - I can see owning a married couple - but I couldn't see owning someone who was contractually obligated to another whom I did not control.

I've owned slaves who had other relationships - but they weren't married, and their contact with their sweetie was subject to my whims.

I'd cheerfully accept the submission of someone who was married to another in a poly relationship - but that's not slavery.

Then again, "slave" may just be a kewl catchphrase that doesn't mean anything in particular to the people involved - in which case, whatever floats their fleet, but that's not how I use the word "slave".

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RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? - 3/2/2005 3:26:22 AM

Leonidas

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Hello celestia,

I've said quite a bit about this on another thread, which is probably why you started this one. I'll address the question that you just asked directly, and maybe what I've been saying to you will be clearer:

quote:

How does one fulfill that need? Given the partner in the situation is vanilla and does not wish to be involved in this lifestyle and for the sake of further argument is aware of the need in their spouse?

You could do any number of things depending on what you feel commitment to your marriage entails. You could do what most married women do; get yourself a good vibrator and have a nice fantasy life aided, perhaps, by some steamy online banter. I'd be willing to bet that you've been there, done that. On the other hand, you could do what you're doing now; have trysts with someone who will treat you as if you were his slave for a bounded period of time while acknowledging that you are, in the final analysis, a free woman who has somewhere else to be.

Lets revisit our friends Mirriam and Webster:

quote:

Main Entry: slave
Pronunciation: 'slAv
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe
1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence

The first definition means that you are property. You are at the disposal of your owner. His, in other words, to do with as he pleases. The second definition means that you are a slave to his will . Completely subservient means just that. Your personal experience; what you genuinely feel and percieve, is that you have no choice but to do as your owner commands. If you were indeed a man's slave, he'd be within his rights to command exactly what he pleased of you and you, being a slave to his will would perceive that you had no choice but to do your master's bidding. If you were in fact a man's slave your life would be wholly in his hands.

That isn't really possible for a married woman. You could not be committed to your husband because you would have no commitment to offer. Only a free woman can make commitments of her own. Whether you followed whatever life plans you have made with your husband, whether you had a sexual relationship with him, even whether you stayed, or left, would be completely at your master's choosing. Your marriage by any reasonable measure would cease to exist. It would be reduced to your master allowing you to cohabitate with a man because it happened to be convenient for him to do so.

None of the above means that you do not have a slave nature. You may in fact desire to be owned. What you are trying to do is satisfy that desire by having some of the experiences that an owned girl would have while stopping short of becoming a man's slave. If those experiences will satisfy your need then you may succeed at remaining free to be committed to your marriage. If, on the other hand, Taggard ever succeeds at enslaving you, truly, you will have chosen, celestia. That would be the last choice you would make, for as long as you were a slave. Much of life is about the choices we make. Some of them are very cruel choices.

To my way of thinking there is no special cache in being a man's slave. It's not a special badge of honor that you must claim to be "real". I know that you think I am being unkind to you and somehow trying to deny you special status, but nothing could be further from the truth. Slavery isn't a choice that every woman can make, or would even want to make. Many, in fact most women stop far short of slavery, yet still want to play with the same emotions and drives. If that works for you, it's just fine and no less valid that full-blown slavery if it fullfills you. I will say to you the same thing that I said to my girl before she knelt and begged to be collared: If you feel that you could choose anything but to live as a slave, you should. It's kind of like being an artist; something that you should only do if you must.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 3/2/2005 4:52:26 AM >

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