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RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 11:55:58 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, remember that when you finally break your vow to leave NJ and become my simple country sex slave, you big-titted bitch---that's gonna be your first beating, for breaking your vow---but once you heal up----LOLOLOLOL

Ron



Hahahhaaaaa.  With that broken down rusty bathroom of yours and the promise of a beating upon my arrival...well....what kinda girl could resist? 

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 11:56:58 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The hardliners are all invariably unmarried: chichenhawks of life-long monogamy and marital simplicity.


Invariably? I held this stance twenty years ago, I held it when I GOT MARRIED 7 years ago after the first few years of that relationship. I will still hold it after next month when I get My decree nici and I will continue to hold it when I take My next (2nd but last) wife!




If you get divorced, you break a vow.  You betray a promise to stay with someone for better or worse.

Breaking a vow is breaking a vow. 


Okay MarieToo.. I admit to being a bit lost here. Are you saying that once married that the marriage should hold no matter what?
If the parties agree the marriage is not working are vows still broken? Vows to whom??
Bob & Mary get divorced after 20 years of a bad marriage, they both agree to it. Did just one break the vows? Both?
I do not include the OP of cheating in this instance, I just seek clarification from you.


_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:16:25 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have also perceived that I am to be answered last, sorry---thats another beating.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:16:39 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Okay MarieToo.. I admit to being a bit lost here. Are you saying that once married that the marriage should hold no matter what?


Thats exactly what the vows state.  No matter what. Sickness and health, for better or worse..until death do us part.  Yes, that includes "no matter what".


quote:

If the parties agree the marriage is not working are vows still broken? Vows to whom??


Vows to each other are broken, yes.  You break your marriage vows. 


quote:

Bob & Mary get divorced after 20 years of a bad marriage, they both agree to it. Did just one break the vows? Both?


Both broke their vows. 


I was trying to make a point which I apparently didnt do very well.

Cheating is breaking a vow to be fidel to your spouse.

Divorce is breaking a vow to stay in your marriage no matter what the problems are. 

I was trying to draw an analogy that cheating and divorcing are both examples of breaking a vow.

I am divorced, btw.  Im not down on divorce, Im not down on breaking vows.  Im down on making them in the first place. 

Im not down on hanging cheaters, or hanging the spouses of cheaters, or hanging the other man/woman.

My point is about priorities. 

To some people its a greater sin to break the fidelity vow than to break the 'till death do us part vow'. 

To others, divorce is unthinkable but cheating is forgiveable. 

For example:  I know a couple whose marriage actually improved after an affair, because it made them both take a long hard look a their marriage and focus on the problems and fix them.  Its a different account for everyone.  I dont think its black and white. 


_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:18:43 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I have also perceived that I am to be answered last, sorry---thats another beating.

Ron



That was part of my sinister plan!

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:30:55 PM   
unlearntbeauty


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		The best advice anyone has ever given to me is "live life for yourself because no one else will do it for you". 

When i first heard this, i was floored by how selfish it was... but the more i thought about it, the more i fully agreed.  To me, living life for myself does include making others feel good, its considering them and making them smile.  For others, living life for themselves is more selfish than that, but that is just who they are.   Ranting about morals created from the fucked society that we live in isnt going to change who that person is or who they live for.  If a person chooses to cheat on his/her other with someone from the lifestyle, whose place is it for any of you to judge?  You may not agree, but its not your life, its not your situation...  and IF it does become a part of your situation, you have free will as a human to do what you think is right on an individual basis as you live your life for yourself.


(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:31:47 PM   
cloudboy


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Like I said, the unmarried.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:33:19 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		There is a vast difference between living FOR yourself and doing it at the expense of others. 

(in reply to unlearntbeauty)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:42:54 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There is a vast difference between living FOR yourself and doing it at the expense of others. 


I agree with this.  And I think its a very astute point.
But I think what happens is the lines between personal happiness and personal responsibility become clouded.  I know they did for me. 
Even though I had become unhappy in my marriage, I thought it was my duty and responsibility to stay with him even though I wasn't fulfilled.  Like it was my job to shelf my own happiness in order to preserve his.   This is the point at which it gets very sticky with married couples.  We feel a sense of duty to someone else's happiness even at the expense of our own.  But what we dont realize is that we are actually "stealing"  from someone when we stay with them out of duty.  We are removing their chance to move on to find someone to love them the way they deserve to be loved, and at the same time we are keeping ourselves in that same rut. 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 1/28/2007 12:43:48 PM >

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:44:01 PM   
unlearntbeauty


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		I disagree, although i do think that if you live life for yourself at another's expense, its not likely that you will be on the top of my friends list. 

I live for myself.  For me personally, that wouldnt include dumping on another person.  Its not who i want to be.  When you think about living life for yourself, you have to consider the LIFE, not just that moment of pleasure.  I wont look back and regret anything.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:44:46 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		I'm still confused but I am learning to live with it lol. Staying in a bad marriage is destructive to the self as well as destructive to your mate.
Stepping out of the marriage is destructive to both as well.
However to me, staying miserable by choice *staying in a bad marriage* is breaking a vow to myself. I am glad I have the choice of divorce and I will use it if I have to.

*wanders off, confused and muttering to herself. hmm, she wonders if the confusion stems from a religious based marriage/justice of the peace marriage.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:50:39 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I believe in karma and while I was once involved with a married woman I would never do it again.

I worry about what is healthy for me in an emotional sense and while that does come first, many other things I put second to ensuring my actions do not harm another emotionally.  As an example, if a hot woman wanted to sleep with me but I believed she would regret it for some reason I could agree too, as an example, she might want more emotionally than I was willing to give, I would be inclined to not sleep with her.    I lose out for "myself" but I win because I feel like a better more noble person for it and really, what have I lost in thinking of myself second in that case.

I would not though, stay in a relationship if it wasn't good for me.

(in reply to unlearntbeauty)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 12:59:41 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		I wouldn't stay in one either SimplyMichael. Yet from so many posts here it seems that I ought to suck up any abuse and stay married. It is a good thing I've an intelligent mind with the strength to back it up..sometimes heh.
No more self destructive living for me. No more denying my life because decades ago things were different.
Ah I'm just having a sorrowful day I guess.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:16:46 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The hardliners are all invariably unmarried: chichenhawks of life-long monogamy and marital simplicity.


cloud,
Forgot about the cowards? You know the ones who rationalize why they can't act; the ones who use (you can also use the word blame) others for their life being miserable?

My original post to this thread wasn't judgmental. It was pointing to expectations. Count the threads on this site asking how to deal with liars and cheats. There are many complaining about mental abuse, secrecy, consistency, and integrity. It is difficult to make the transition from acquaintance to partner. At the threshold of that decision you take what the other person has presented about themselves and determine if you rely on it. The married player's reliability has a more obvious track record; making the decision a bit easier.

There is no requirement for a relationship. Integrity and trust aren't requirements for a night of play at a club or a casual physical encounter. As long as you can trust that they have the integrity of reacting to a 'safe-word'; I guess you can feel 'safe'.

Saying that a spouse is unwilling or unable to meet needs is damn convenient. Choose to believe it or not and enjoy a good time. The point is that profiles representing that is what they are looking for are few and far between. Relationships are the stated goal. Relationships where trust and integrity are valued. When it turns out trust was misplaced, the "missing dom" or "unreliable sub" thread appears; and its way more frequent then every 2-4 months. 

The best way to avoid the necessity of seeking advice on what to do with a cheating dom or sub would be to avoid getting involved with one who has a proven track record. Is that "judgmental" or pragmatic?

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:18:57 PM   
QuietMistress


Posts: 11
Joined: 1/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Domdecisive

Amazing to me how people who are supposedly so liberal, sensitive, and supportive of homosexuality, bisexuality, peeing on another, bondage and play rape, anal sex, and dozens of other things that most vanilla types would find abhorrent, can be so judgemental about extra-marital bdsm activity.   This notion of cultural diversity and welcoming alternate lifestyles seems to only be ok when it's about your own kink, but not when it's someone else's choice of lifestyle.  


I agree.  I notice the people that yell the loudest are the ones who had stringent, idealized rules for their marriage.  They end up suffocating their partner. 

(in reply to Domdecisive)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:22:09 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Cloud,

Chickenhawk?  Kiss my fat white ass you hypocritical snake.  Fucking over partners is fucking over partners, there is ZERO excuse for it, the only place for people who cheat AND rationalize about the moral high ground is being placed at the bottoms of the pillers and driven deep into the fucking ground underneath them.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:42:40 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domdecisive

Amazing to me how people who are supposedly so liberal, sensitive, and supportive of homosexuality, bisexuality, peeing on another, bondage and play rape, anal sex, and dozens of other things that most vanilla types would find abhorrent, can be so judgemental about extra-marital bdsm activity.   This notion of cultural diversity and welcoming alternate lifestyles seems to only be ok when it's about your own kink, but not when it's someone else's choice of lifestyle.  


I agree.  I notice the people that yell the loudest are the ones who had stringent, idealized rules for their marriage.  They end up suffocating their partner. 

Wow!  Talk about not being able to have a logical debate....The question is not about a "kink."  it's about IF YOU ARE MARRIED whether it is right to "hide an affair" from a partner....If you think that by being honest then you are potentially suffocating someone....

WHY IN THE FUCK AM I RESPONDING?  I have had more logical and entertaining conversations with a three year old.

No one out here is perfect but is is just frightening that you don't read why others (many who I assume have cheated and LEARNED from the experience) can't believe that people are defending their actions as to  keeping their partners in "the dark."  We are not talking about  an "open" relationship...We are talking about "deception"
and if QuietMistress feels that without deceiving her partner she would be guilty of "suffocating them" can someone please explain the logic of her statement to me? Please?

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 1/28/2007 1:43:46 PM >

(in reply to QuietMistress)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:49:56 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlethistle

quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlethistle

In general, people here seem to be wildly oposed to it...but I guess I should let them all line up and tell you themselves how dreadful low-down, cheating, hypocritical...etc etc...


See...I knew they would.  They don't like 'cheating'.  And because they don't like cheating and lying, not one of them has ever appropriated office stationery or been party to a 'cash in hand' transaction or told their spouse that their bum doesn't look big in that or given their unmentionable offspring to believe that their artistic efforts are a work of genius or....no, they are all to a man and woman scrupulously honest in every aspect of their lives, they never fail to live up to their own high standards.  Well hoorah for them....not everyone is so perfect.  And in an imperfect world people make imperfect decisions in the interests of trying to hold things together.  If I were really 'honest' I'd quit doing a job I don't want to and stop trying to keep my next of kin alive...but I'm not honest...in a fit of hypocrisy I continue to do both things out of some misplaced sort of hypocritical duty.  I'm not proud of 'cheating' like this...but some people are weak when it comes to 'doing the right thing' and they make shitty compromises.

Laura


Very well conveyed gentlethistle. Unless you experience the pain and disappointment that life can bring you in very complicated relationships, unless you experience the agony of having to make these kinds of decisions no amount of  words are going to make others feel the aching of your feet as they walked in your shoes.    


                 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to gentlethistle)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:55:39 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Comparing white lies and stealing paperclips to cheating is like comparing scratching a car with a grocery basket to running someone over with a car.

I just hope your spouses's rationalizations exceed yours.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 1:55:50 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

cloudboy
Like I said, the unmarried.  (in reply to RavenMuse)


I'm married
 


< Message edited by swtnsparkling -- 1/28/2007 2:02:55 PM >

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 140
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