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RE: being married... - 1/26/2007 9:32:49 PM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

No, he is the author of many interesting books that cover the range of interdisciplanary subjects in the social sciences and biology. He is rather well regarded, having won many book awards, including the Pulitzer.

I have not read that particular book he references though. Jared Diamond is rather brilliant.

And that he may be.

DG

Well he has the coolest name in academia either way... he sounds more like a rock star than a professor at UCLA...smiles

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(in reply to adaddysgirl)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 12:03:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, wanted to first respond to the OP:

I'm long married and no, I do not have "discreet" relationships outside my marriage. I have discreet ones, but not "discreet" in the manner of sneaking/dishonest as used so often here and implied in this post.

I wouldn't label it "domly" or "undomly", that seems rather silly and vague to me. Doing so does strike me as being overly complicated, drama-prone and more trouble than it's worth. I'd rather just say to my spouse, "I'm going to go spend time with X" than think up b.s. to dodge and mislead them with... I like smooth, honest sailing in my closest relationships.

Likewise, I normally won't take on a partner who wants to sneak for any reason, though I've no use for them sexually. Why put up with the headache? No thanks.

(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 7:15:37 AM

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Cheating is cheating.... I won't go into what I think of cheats, I'd only upset the modkins.... again

Poly situations however, no problem with and have done so in the past when there has been clear and open communication on ALL sides, nothing hidden. No cheating.

As for marriage itself. Not unDomly in the slightest. I have a responcibility to look after My girl, if the situation is such that I feel the best way to give her the legal protections and security needed if I ever get hit by a bus or something, then marriage is certainly a viable option in providing that.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 9:40:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?

If more people would actually consider dating and marrying bdsm partners in the first place instead only thinking of them as play partners, these situations wouldn't arise. Cheating is wrong. I guess for some people, it takes going through a painful divorce, losing half if not more of what they own, and paying large amounts of child support to realize this simple truth. If someone can't meet all of your needs (both kinky and vanilla), don't marry them in the first place.

(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 12:15:06 PM

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quote:

If someone can't meet all of your needs (both kinky and vanilla), don't marry them in the first place.

For many of us our needs and desires change over the years. When we married in 1968 i had no idea i would ever enjoy this lifestyle, in fact i had no knowledge of it at all except for being a '50's type wife.

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RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 3:05:33 PM

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Nothing in life is as simplistic as being either "black or white" "right or wrong" etc. For all those condeming men or women who "cheat" saying they have low morals or lack character let me ask you this question - what would you say of a man who leaves a woman, with small children to run off with another woman better suited to his own needs - selfish, self centered, jerk, a**hole all come to my mind in what i have heard in my life experience - so the poor schmuck is screwed either way. What about that woman or man who deprives his partner of attention, affection, sex, etc - what does that say of THEIR character and morals?? There are so many situations to consider i just fail to see this as a yes or no question. People get married with the best intentions in mind, most of the time, and life just happens. Decisions have to be made considering everyone involved. Walk in that persons shoes before jumping to the conclusion that they are pond scum, or lack morals/ethics/character. Maybe their decision was the best they could make to keep a very tenuous balance in a very difficult union work the best for ALL involved.

< Message edited by velvetears -- 1/27/2007 3:06:10 PM >

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RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 3:14:00 PM

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Thankyou velvetears my point exactly.
You have to know the individual to judge them as people. If you judge the situation without knowledge then you are being judgemental.
However to have a preference not to involve yourself with a married person or one committed to another is a preference it is not being judgemental.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 3:22:55 PM

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I don't much care if it is being judgemental.... if taking a stand and saying "there is NEVER a good excuse for cheating" is judgemental, then I am quite happy to accept that lable!

In the case above, where the Man is only sticking around "Because of the children"... there is still the option of sitting her down like adults and working out wether continuing to share their life and parenting but acknowledging the breakdown of the relationship and being free to HONESTLY seek that elsewhere.... or properly seperating... or *Gosh* working together and repairing the relationship... would be the best option rather than destroying both the partner AND the children by going the cheating route and the trainwreck that ALL too often follows. The main thing stopping other options is a) they WANT to cheat and/or b) they are to COWARDLY to go for a more adult and honest option because it IS difficult and DOES require work.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to lateralist1)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 4:28:28 PM

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one of the problems with the real side of the BDSM lifestyle is there are many submissives or Dominants who have vanilla partners who will not or do not participate. This leaves the submissive or Dom a choice of not following their calling or being unhappy. when i was married to my X i tried to get him intersted and he just called me sick and weird...i divorced him...for many more reasons that than :) and am now married to my Dom....i am one of the lucky ones, i know...but even though it's cheating....being in the position before i can understand why it happens....and i will not be one to judge it...but just understand as the saying goes BTDT (been there done that) but threw away the t-shirt :)

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RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 4:34:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?

It's not "undomly"...it's innapropriate (unless with specific and unparalleled permission).

I never ceases to amaze...I'm never any less than aghast when I hear this discussion.

If you're married, you've made a commitment. If that commitment is other than that which is universally accepted...you should a) express it and b) put it in writing.

Anything less, is cheating...and in my eyes...at least anathema.

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Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 8:58:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Nothing warms the soul of Domiguy then to watch the spouse of one of my cheating subbies start to crumble and cry when he finds out what his wife has been doing!!!!It's so funny! When they get those eight by ten glossies with their wife on all fours...Huge butt plug in one end and deep throating yours truly ,,,it's the best!!!..Especially if you can be there to catch their initial reaction...Truly priceless! But, it doesn't end there...If there are kids involved it's even "double the fun!" Nothing says "I love you" to a small child then finding out that there Mom is fucking Domiguy 'cause their "Pop" is such a lame schmuck! (It's even better if I can get to explain to the kids I was doing them a favor...Watching their little faces "light up," as I explain to them that without me, their mom would have left their useless father years ago.) When they are balling and figuring out which parent to live with...all I can think about is how condescending you people are for not understanding that in the pursuit of pussy everything else is trivial....Assholes!(Domiguy catches breath....just the thought of little kids crying always makes me laugh)

So you closed minded fucks who can't understand the pleasure of ripping apart other peoples lives and families and how inconsequential such things are when it comes to the pusuit of some good pussy ...Well then, you are worthless and weak.
D.G.

Domiguy, I think I love you!

There are too many people thinking with their cocks or pussies and then trying to rationalize their "instant gratification" lifestyles. Oh, yeah.....it's always a 50-50 fault (hmmm.....bet THAT psychoanalyst was a cheater...lol)? And 60% of women and 40% of men cheat? Where did THAT statistic come from?. Dr. Shirely Glass, a psychologist who has studied infidelity for 20 years, in her 2005 research found about a quarter of all married women, and 45 percent of married men cheat at some time during their marriage Not nearly as many people cheat as cheaters try to tell themselves do. Surprise! No matter how the researchers look at it, cheaters are not part of the "majority". Only 50% of marriages are victims of infidelity.

But that 60%-40% number gives all the cheaters a rational for THEIR cheating.

If a person doesn't think they are capable of being monogamous, then by all mean, don't get into a committed relationship and, please save us all a lot of pain by not procreating. Oh yeah....the whole "child support" whine? Hmmm.....the mother or father have these kids by themselves? Yeah, right.....blame the spouse that DIDN'T cheat again. You really see child support as being a PUNISHMENT for having to help support your own kids so they don't have to live in poverty? Now....that is a real a**ine attitude to me!

Yeah....I'm being judgmental. Yeah....my kids lives were torn apart by my ex-husband's infidelity with a college student, after 20 years of marriage. But, while it hurt me like hell, but I could have dealt with a "civil" divorce where minimal damage was done to our kids. However, like many people, whose marriages fall apart because one partner or another doesn't have enough ethics to stand up to the person they cheated on, they don't have enough guts to talk to their children, answer their questions, and often disappear into the wind. (Maybe to avoid that "Child Support" penalty spoken of above)

All you who are cheating or in relationships with married people? I wish your families well.

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(in reply to domiguy)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 10:17:24 PM

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?

That all depends. Is it completely nonsexual? ie service only? Then I do not view it as cheating. I think it is a great idea if I am partnered with a switch that has her own sub and I have mine. The second it crosses that boundary, though, I have a problem with it.

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(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/27/2007 10:53:16 PM

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From: Chicago
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don't much care if it is being judgemental.... if taking a stand and saying "there is NEVER a good excuse for cheating" is judgemental, then I am quite happy to accept that lable!

In the case above, where the Man is only sticking around "Because of the children"... there is still the option of sitting her down like adults and working out wether continuing to share their life and parenting but acknowledging the breakdown of the relationship and being free to HONESTLY seek that elsewhere.... or properly seperating... or *Gosh* working together and repairing the relationship... would be the best option rather than destroying both the partner AND the children by going the cheating route and the trainwreck that ALL too often follows. The main thing stopping other options is a) they WANT to cheat and/or b) they are to COWARDLY to go for a more adult and honest option because it IS difficult and DOES require work.

You have made a series of assumptions and judgments here that imply a knowledge that you cannot possibly have. There are people in this world who are married not for love but for convenience or for companionship or for various other reasons that are none of yours or mine business. What you call in absolute terms "cheating" may be a way to stay sane in a relationship without love or sex. Is it right? Probably not. Is it possibly a mistake and cry for help? Yes.

Some people here seem incapable of making a distinction between cheating that comes from need and pain and situations that people may have no control over and cheating that comes from intent to harm and abject narcissism. In my opinion the latter is inexcusable while the former is a mistake and may in fact be a forgivable one, without knowing the parties involved there is no way to be sure.

If you cannot make that distinction there is no sense arguing with you, your focus is to narrow and your mind is set. One thing is sure, you would make a poor judge because your focus is only on the crime itself. Even our court system allows for circumstances that effect the criminal.

Even a murderer in our court system would get a fairer trial than a cheater that violates your morality which is funny because what we do violates most peoples morality far more than any cheating, and that is for sure.

The moral high ground is easy and simplistic but life is rarely either of those things. In the end, people in these relationships, both the spouse who cheats and the spouse who suffers, don't give a shit what you or I think because we are not there at night to hold them and we are not there experiencing their pain. And belive me both spouses are in pain because there is a sickness in the relationship and cheating is a result.

Cheating can be a mistake grown out of need or selfishness or both, perhaps an unforgivable one and perhaps one that deserves understanding and forgiveness. In any case that is not for you to decide unless you are one of the parties effected.

One thing is for sure, it is far easier and far less painful to judge others than judge ourselves.

< Message edited by SlyStone -- 1/27/2007 10:56:03 PM >

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RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 2:17:52 AM

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I would make a good judge.... because I don't let namby pamby PC bullshit get in the way of seeing what is being done. Cheating is cheating, end of story, Cheaters allways try to justify the unjustifiable, seek validation for their totaly unacceptable actions.... *I* will not be party to that, I will not help them LIE to themselves and pretend it is all OK because they have some sob story to tell.

There are ALWAYS other options, HONEST options.... sure sometimes the price is high, sometimes is is a hard and rocky road... it is called being responcible for your own actions, having integrity, being trustworthy, having the BALLS to do the right thing where cowards will hide behind lies rather than face upto the truth.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 1/28/2007 2:19:09 AM >

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to SlyStone)

RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 2:28:12 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Some people here seem incapable of making a distinction between cheating that comes from need and pain and situations that people may have no control over
I am so unhappy I cry every day- the loneliness is to much to bear at times- the lack of touch and feeling of being loved- haven't has sex in years-my marriage is painful . I stay for the kids- I stay because I have no where else to go- I stay because he makes the money and I don't. Oh Gee what am I going to do, What can I do- I cant live like this anymore. Oh I got it................ I'm going to sneak around and cheat- get that loving feeling from some one else. Pretend my life as it is doesn't
exists. Yes Yes that's it.. I have no control over the situations in my life so I am going to mistakenly have an affair /cheat/be dishonest/instead of admitting my marriage sucks and isn't good for me and do some thing to change that. Situations my ass / there is always control- step up to the plate and make that change.

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(in reply to SlyStone)

RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 4:13:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

If a person doesn't think they are capable of being monogamous, then by all mean, don't get into a committed relationship and, please save us all a lot of pain by not procreating.

I understand that you are angry from the relationship you just came out of but, but what the heck is this comment about? I've been in a commited relationship for 16 years, we are not monogamous but we are honest about it with each other, there are no lies between us. So why don't we have the right to procreate? I don't want to be argumentative but I don"t think that comment was very fair to those of us in succsessful poly friendly relationships.

IMO any relationship that starts with lies and secrets is pretty much doomed, how can you be honest with your partner-Top/Dom/Master if you can't be honest with yourself? Like many have already stated, cheating is cheating no matter what new name it's given. Even if it is just 'play' no sex. If you feel you are doing something you can't tell your current partner/spouce about then you might want to think why you are doing it in the first place, and how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

denika

(in reply to Sunshine119)

RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 5:22:49 AM

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From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubyleu

Just curious to know how others feel about Dominants, and submissives that are married, yet have a discreet bdsm relationship with another, withouth their spouse being aware of it. As for the Dominants who are married, do you feel this is an "undomly" quality?

Back on topic...I feel they need to learn how to communicate with their spouse and discuss what is apparently lacking, rather than sneak around. UnDomly? I don't know if that's a word, but I would agree it shows a lack of control.

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(in reply to rubyleu)

RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 8:16:16 AM

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Denika,

Relationships which are poly are usually monogomous unto themselves. The people in the relationship love and cherish each other and don't have sex or sneak around with others outside of the poly relationship. Children know about the complexity of the relationships because there are no lies. Therefore, children are raised to be as honest and open as any two person monogamous relationship. No difference.

I hope this clarifies my position to you.

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RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 8:26:17 AM

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Cheating is just that cheating,for better or or worst...I am very lucky to have a woman in my life that understand that I am a pussy hound ..I can have all I want just no sneaking around and even bring them home for moma to play with too.I have been there and done that is my previous marriage and while I didn't like it I continued to live the lifestyle without her...BE well WILLIAM

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RE: being married... - 1/28/2007 8:26:51 AM

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

Some people here seem incapable of making a distinction between cheating that comes from need and pain and situations that people may have no control over
I am so unhappy I cry every day- the loneliness is to much to bear at times- the lack of touch and feeling of being loved- haven't has sex in years-my marriage is painful . I stay for the kids- I stay because I have no where else to go- I stay because he makes the money and I don't. Oh Gee what am I going to do, What can I do- I cant live like this anymore. Oh I got it................ I'm going to sneak around and cheat- get that loving feeling from some one else. Pretend my life as it is doesn't
exists. Yes Yes that's it.. I have no control over the situations in my life so I am going to mistakenly have an affair /cheat/be dishonest/instead of admitting my marriage sucks and isn't good for me and do some thing to change that. Situations my ass / there is always control- step up to the plate and make that change.

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to swtnsparkling)

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