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RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 8:35:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

You're thinking of John Walker Lindh who wasn't actually charged with treason. Adam Gadahn is an Orange County, CA native member of Al Queda. He is also known as Azam the American and does propaganda against the US.

Jane is welcome to file a suit. Since she doesn't press charges when veterans spit on her, I won't hold my breath.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying correctly.

Since she is not willing to file a lawsuit against you for violating the law by accusing her of an illegal act without proof or justification, that means you are perfectly within your rights to continue to commit an illegal act?

I guess.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 8:48:46 PM

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What law am I violating by expressing my opinion of what she did? There seems be quite a bit of insistence that she didn't violate any laws by calling POW's 'liars.'

OJ was acquitted. I think of him and refer to him as a murderer. What's the difference?

< Message edited by WyrdRich -- 2/12/2007 8:51:29 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 9:27:24 PM

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I think Jane Fonda was wrong to be allowed pictured with VietCong soldiers, supporting the North Vietnamese....supporting communism (it is a tyranny no free elections in Vietnam since the fall of Saigon) in any form is wrong in my book....however I do validate the fact that she was trying to end the Vietnam war as it also made little sense, although looking from the Iraq experience, it made more sense than "ousting Saddam and WMD"....but again it should come to the question of....why was the US in Vietnam at all? No business doing anything there....even a take over of Nicaragua makes more sense, as it is closer to its borders.....

I do not like Jane Fonda, I find her a bit hypocritical....in any case, I don't think it matters whether she is against Iraq or not, the American people have made up their mind already, she is just jumping in the "fashion" bandwagon, along with other democrats....

< Message edited by MasterKalif -- 2/12/2007 9:28:30 PM >

(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 9:46:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

I think Jane Fonda was wrong to be allowed pictured with VietCong soldiers, supporting the North Vietnamese....supporting communism (it is a tyranny no free elections in Vietnam since the fall of Saigon) in any form is wrong in my book....however I do validate the fact that she was trying to end the Vietnam war as it also made little sense, although looking from the Iraq experience, it made more sense than "ousting Saddam and WMD"....but again it should come to the question of....why was the US in Vietnam at all? No business doing anything there....even a take over of Nicaragua makes more sense, as it is closer to its borders.....

I do not like Jane Fonda, I find her a bit hypocritical....in any case, I don't think it matters whether she is against Iraq or not, the American people have made up their mind already, she is just jumping in the "fashion" bandwagon, along with other democrats....

Of course, the fact that the United States Congress never actually declared war against the government of North Vietnam screws up the idea that there was actually a Vietnam War.

To be correct, there was an undeclared Vietnam Police Action.

Oddly enough, I suppose we are currently dealing with an undeclared Iraq Police Action.

If we were not technically at war with North Vietnam, who exactly was Jane Fonda committing treason by supporting?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to MasterKalif)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 9:48:25 PM

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Yes, we are now convicting people of treason for aiding enemies never declared for wars that never existed... I am so confused!

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 9:51:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yes, we are now convicting people of treason for aiding enemies never declared for wars that never existed... I am so confused!

Im sure Monkeyboy and his car full of clowns can figure out how to have them all executed.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 9:59:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

farglebargle:
This is all true...but would you hazard a guess as to whom the president must ask to use the marines?
thompson

Are the Marines in the Constitution?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 10:01:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well the debate about who treason applies to aside, in my opinion one needs to be at war to be offering aid and comfort to the enemy. We were not at war with Vietnam, it was a police action in a legal sense, at least that is what our government called it

I don't see 'POLICE ACTION' among the enumerated powers of the Federal Gov't. Anyone?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 10:04:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

I think Jane Fonda was wrong to be allowed pictured with VietCong soldiers, supporting the North Vietnamese....supporting communism (it is a tyranny no free elections in Vietnam since the fall of Saigon)

The UN mandated elections before the US supported Diem. You blew the opportunity by supporting the guy who REFUSED to participate in those UN mandated elections. Don't whine about it now.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MasterKalif)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/12/2007 11:28:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well the debate about who treason applies to aside, in my opinion one needs to be at war to be offering aid and comfort to the enemy. We were not at war with Vietnam, it was a police action in a legal sense, at least that is what our government called it

I don't see 'POLICE ACTION' among the enumerated powers of the Federal Gov't. Anyone?

(they are not, I am simply relating what LBJ and his ilk referred to it as)

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 6:38:22 AM

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You dont need to be at war to commit treason.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source

trea·son

(trē'zən) Pronunciation Key
n.

Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
en·e·my

/ˈɛn

ə

mi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[en-uh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -mies, adjective
–noun

1.
a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.

2.
an armed foe; an opposing military force: The army attacked the enemy at dawn.

3.
a hostile nation or state.

Based on those definitions the N Vietnamese were enemies of the United States, and what Fonda did WAS indeed treason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

DDG54:
As has been stated several times...there was no war declared only the adventurism of a series of presidents. No declared war =no treason.
thompson

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 6:42:03 AM

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TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2381

§ 2381. Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to NavyDDG54)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 7:06:09 AM

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WAR doesn't need to be declared,IF you do any thing that put our troops in harms way by your actions thats treason no two ways about it..ITS my country right or wrong but whens its wrong I raise hell too..so much for my two cents...WILLIAM

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:09:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

farglebargle:
This is all true...but would you hazard a guess as to whom the president must ask to use the marines?
thompson

Are the Marines in the Constitution?

farglebargle:
Nope....and that was my point.
thompson

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:15:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

WAR doesn't need to be declared,IF you do any thing that put our troops in harms way by your actions thats treason no two ways about it..ITS my country right or wrong but whens its wrong I raise hell too..so much for my two cents...WILLIAM

BOUNTYHUNTER:
So when your country is wrong you will rais hell too ....but she may not....
Just what exactly did she do that put any U.S. troops in harms way?
thompson

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:23:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

I think Jane Fonda was wrong to be allowed pictured with VietCong
Her picture was taken with the NVA not the VietCong (which is a madison ave. creation designed to dehumanize and diminish the irregular forces of the NVA operating below DMZ) I realize it is a subtle distinction but one that bears pointing out.

soldiers, supporting the North Vietnamese....supporting communism (it is a tyranny no free elections in Vietnam since the fall of Saigon) in any form is wrong in my book

If my memory serves me correctly VietNam held its first free election in 1979 and every 5 years subsequently.

however I do validate the fact that she was trying to end the Vietnam war as it also made little sense, although looking from the Iraq experience, it made more sense than "ousting Saddam and WMD"....but again it should come to the question of....why was the US in Vietnam at all? No business doing anything there....even a take over of Nicaragua makes more sense, as it is closer to its borders.....

I do not like Jane Fonda, I find her a bit hypocritical....in any case,

I find her more than a bit hypocritical,
thompson

I don't think it matters whether she is against Iraq or not, the American people have made up their mind already, she is just jumping in the "fashion" bandwagon, along with other democrats....

(in reply to MasterKalif)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:26:23 AM

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

farglebargle:
This is all true...but would you hazard a guess as to whom the president must ask to use the marines?
thompson

Are the Marines in the Constitution?

farglebargle:
Nope....and that was my point.
thompson

Well, then considering their history, Marines are filed under Navy. So we're back to "You need go ask Congress for funding, and if you LIE to Congress about what the money will be used for, that's a crime."

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:38:17 AM

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farglebargle:
The marines are not part of the navy and never have been. They are not authorized by the constitution but rather by act of congress in 1799. The only person the president needs to consult to send the marines anywhere is the guy who lives at 8th.&I in Washington DC.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/13/2007 8:39:20 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:47:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

You dont need to be at war to commit treason.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source

trea·son       (trē'zən) Pronunciation Key
n.

Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
en·e·my      /ˈɛnəmi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[en-uh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -mies, adjective
–noun

1.
a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.

2.
an armed foe; an opposing military force: The army attacked the enemy at dawn.

3.
a hostile nation or state.

Based on those definitions the N Vietnamese were enemies of the United States, and what Fonda did WAS indeed treason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

DDG54:
As has been stated several times...there was no war declared only the adventurism of a series of presidents. No declared war =no treason.
thompson

NavyDDG54:
It would appear by the above definition that no one may disagree with the president and his policies. If you wish to use semantics to disassemble the constitution then why did you join the navy and swear an oath to uphold it?
thompson

(in reply to NavyDDG54)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/13/2007 8:56:46 AM

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

What law am I violating by expressing my opinion of what she did?
Only the laws of reason and logic.

There seems be quite a bit of insistence that she didn't violate any laws by calling POW's 'liars.'

OJ was acquitted. I think of him and refer to him as a murderer. What's the difference?
When you refer to OJ as a murder verbaly it is called slander. When you put it in print as you have done here it is called libel. If he so chose he could obtain a court order to find your true identy and sue you in civil court.
Roseanne Barr has been put on notice and has since been much more careful in her choice of words in this matter.
thompson

(in reply to WyrdRich)

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