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RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 10:14:36 AM   
feline


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Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: feline

It's ok Taggard we all understand. Sometimes people just get sucked in by the phonies. Live and learn.


Yes...I really must be more careful. I am just so naive and gullible.

Taggard



You and all the newbies out there that are not able to recognize crap when they "hear" it.

I wouldn't say gullible.

Have a nice day!

feline


_____________________________

Variety is the soul of pleasure.
~Aphra Behn~

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 10:58:21 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: feline

You and all the newbies out there that are not able to recognize crap when they "hear" it.



Hmmm...yes...such "crap" those rules are, I should have clearly seen that. Even after doing this for 9 years, I am still such a newbie. No way anyone could ever live them...

*Stares blankly in the direction of Las Vegas*

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to feline)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 11:37:18 AM   
nella


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From: Norway
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The case here is that theese rules is not for everyone. To some they might be wonderfull, to others crap. So why dont we all just stop trying to insult all that dont think the same way aboute them as yourself do. Somtimes the bickering of this forum reminds me of a kindergarden and not a group of adults.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 12:05:23 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
So why dont we all just stop trying to insult all that dont think the same way aboute them as yourself do.


Whom, exactly, was insulted???

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 3:27:37 PM   
Alexander


Posts: 159
Joined: 12/10/2004
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I do not dig a whole bunch of those rules and a few of them seem nasty. I do like the one about no furniture for some reason it strikes me as 'cute'.

As for lists of rules whatever they may be.. I think that after 6 months of living time, it might be better to have written down the stuff you made long term commands for (for whatever reason you decided to) or you are not going to be able to remember them better then the girl/guy you gave them too. And there goes your consistency right out the window. Of course I just have a bad memory so thats just me.

I love the citizenCane post about programming the girl. That’s really what it reminded me of too. But my main beef is I don't want my girl to do the exact same thing every day. I can't stand repetition. I want her to have sad days and happy days and difficult days, easy days and I want to own every one of them. I would find this sort of contract so... unlovely, that it would destroy the aesthetic of my Objecto de Arte Unico.


Alex.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 3:58:18 PM   
stormsfate


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Sounds to me like a whole lot of work....for the "master". Not sure why an owner would lock himself into a set of guidelines which effectively dictates the behavior of not only the slave, but also dictates the master's actions, but whatever makes everyone happy is fine by me.

I'm just wondering if you have thought this through.

Slave: Master...may this slave please pee?
Master: Yes, slave, do your business.

Ten minutes later:

Slave: Master...may this slave have a drink?
Master: Yes, slave.

Five minutes later:

Slave: Master... may this slave go number two?
Master: Yes, slave, do your business.

Two minutes later:

Slave: Master...may this slave please have some stale bread?
Master gritting his teeth by this point: Yes, slave.

Now if you get off on being pestered to death by approving every breath your slave takes...this sounds like a wonderful contract :)

Another scenario:

Slave returns home and is alone and within 30 seconds is nekkid. The doorbell rings and its the mailman with a package to be signed for, so said slaves throws on some clothes to answer the door. 30 seconds later, slave is undressed again...five minutes later, the Girl Scouts are at the door selling cookies...30 seconds later, slave is again nekkid...ten minutes later, the neighbor rings the bell wanting to know if the slave will keep an eye on their house as they will be out of town. Some days are just like that.




best regards,
fate

*Edited to add...these rules (and numerous variations of same) have been online for at least the past 12 years.

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 3/18/2005 4:05:18 PM >


_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Alexander)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 5:28:24 PM   
nella


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From: Norway
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Taggard to me the discussion seamned like the argument of kinder garden children. But offcourse if you find that entertaining dont let me stop you.

(in reply to stormsfate)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 5:51:08 PM   
Mercnbeth


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I'm entertained. But then, that's just me.

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 6:54:52 PM   
nella


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Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
i am not entertaind, but then why do i complain, i am not entertains and i am still visiting this tread, time to stop wasting time and do somthing constructive.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/18/2005 10:17:49 PM   
Gemeni


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My one rule is that I want a thing when I want it.

But the set of rules stated is just too trite and sexually based for me to take seriously.

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/19/2005 4:32:34 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
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Hmmm.... Well, I don't do contracts. I teach a girl protocol and it takes a while for her to learn. My expectation of protocol in a slave isn't really any work for me at all. I've been living this way a long time. Here's a blow-by-blow of what I think of / whether I use these rules.

1. It depends. Sometimes a girl comes into a collar owing more than she's worth. In that case there isn't really anything for her to surrender. If a girl is wealthy, it's customary to put whatever she had in an irrevocable trust to be released back to her if something were to happen to her master or if she were to be released. Either way, the girl comes to her collar naked, owning nothing. A man takes the girl, not what she owns or doesn't own.

2. Yep. I own that along with the rest of the girl, and I enforce it especially with a new girl in training. Mindfulness is important.

3. I don't care what she's wearing when I'm not there. I keep new girls naked for a time in my presence (again mindfulness is important). They are allowed something to wear in private after a time, but it isn't much (sue me, I enjoy the sight of the female form).

4. Bras are allowed, panties are not. Exception is made at certain times of the month.

5. Her collar is locked on and never comes off. I only cuff a girl when I intend to restrain her for some purpose.

6. See cuffs above.

7. Nah, she can take a pee, scratch her ass, wipe her nose, and go about her duties without permission. Permission is only required to do something that impacts or distracts me.

8. I generally do this myself. I suppose if I owned a dog I'd be the kind who brushed it myself instead of sending it to the groomer.

9. Nah. I like smooth knees on a girl. This can be imposed as a discipline as appropriate, however.

10. Yep. She has cushion, fur pelt, slave mat, etc for kneeling, lying, sitting, sleeping, but she does these things on the floor.

11. No. Whatever she expresses must be genuine. It's a foundational requirement. She thanks me if she's thankful. If I blister her butt and she's angry about it she pouts, which is fine.

12. I guess this guy's mother didn't teach him that it's not polite to speak with your mouth full.

13. You know, somehow I'm not all that interested in the ultimate fate of semen once I'm done with it. Written by someone for whom semen is still somethin' naughty and/or thinks it's humilliating to have some on 'ya. I might have thought that when I was 13. I'm over it.

14. I'm probably just too busy for this one. Sometimes when I'm finished with a slave all she gets is a swift slap on the ass and a "go start my shower". Sometimes she uses her mouth to wash me, but hands, soap, and a rag do too. I just need to get ready for work.

15. Yes, she has a set of positions that she is responsible for knowing how to enter, hold, leave, and transition between beautifully.

16. Yes, she keeps a journal. If I think she's being lazy about it I address it with her.

17. I choose and buy her clothing. I don't need a modeling everytime.

18. Nah. I don't need to get the urgent phone call because her pussy itches.

19. Um.. If that has to be a rule, you're doing it wrong.

20. I like that one. Kind of a laziness clause. "So, how do you want me to use you today?". Something akin to this that I do require is openness on the part of the slave.

21. See 19 above.

22. Again, see 19. I often retrain women in how to move to be pleasing to the eye but a lot of it just comes naturally with the dropping of modesty and inhibitions and the gradual overcoming of social conditioning.

23. She maintains them. She only shows them to me if I tell her to go get them.

24. She has a cam. If I'm away on business and she's at home she turns it on if I tell her to. I'm always fascinated at how these contract things work. Would the woman refuse if it wasn't written down somewhere?

25. Hmmm.... I'm going to guess that the guy who wrote this was in the military (or got it from a guy who got it from a guy who got it from the guy who was in the military). I couldn't recite my chain of command, general orders, or code of conduct to you now, but they did stay with me for a long time after bootcamp.

There you go perverse. I don't use a contract. A girl once in my collar is expected to be obedient, and learn whatever it is that I teach her, and serve me in whatever way I direct. If I ever had to say "but you have to, it says so in number 12" I personally would take a really hard look at what's going on in general.







_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 3/19/2005 7:03:39 AM   
nella


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Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
Good post Leonidas, i share similar opinions. But some pepole do feel that it is better to have everything set on paper, hard and fast.

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 4:57:39 PM   
JohnathanKay


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nella

If somone want BDSM and D/s to be their whole life, perhaps theese rules is good for them. But for somone whit a life of their own, it is not it think.


These rules set I wrote can be used in any way. Yes, I am the author. You can modify them. There are instructions on how to use them. Every relationship has a set of some kind of rules, guidelines and a general philosophy and understanding of how the relationship works. I just happen to write them down after reviewing a number of relationships where bdsm is an intregal part.

quote:


It takes up to much work both ofr the Master and the slave to enforce them.


To have a M/s relationship, like any other relationship, you are going to have to work at it. Rules/guidelines can help to define the relationship. The rules set is strictly a starting point. If you had to tell someone how your relationship is constructed, what makes it work, what your individual needs are, how you both meet each other's needs, what your boundaries are, how you periodically evaluate your relationship to improve it and make adjustments, how you both manage the relationship in a way to keep you both coming back to more - well all that took a bit of work and you'd end up with a big long list of bulleted items some with long essay about your relationship so others could understand it and maybe learn from it. Relationships take work and lots of it. And if someone wanted to know what a relationship might be like with you - you might have to tell them and by doing so that might take quite a long time in which they will want to ponder it a bit before they get involved.

quote:


And there is some strange werry strange ones here, like begging to be alowed to use toilet paper. I think the one that wrote this is a man, as he obiously do not know how many times a woman whit her period pees.


I know full well how many times she has to use the bathroom even on her periods. Having to ask to have toilet paper isn't so hard. Imagine for a moment you are in the bathroom and you don't have any cause the roll ran out and there is none in the bathroom cupboards or behind the toilet. Well you are going to have to ask for more of it.

quote:


Aslo no bra, many larger girls, like me, need bras to provide suport of the breasts, becouse they are rather big. This is okey for a girl whit littel breats, but for a big girl, it will not work. But for a sence, perhaps it could be fun.


Bras don't support breasts or stop them from sagging more. They simply keep them from moving around a lot and they help to shape them into positions that you like. A larger girl certainly can be without a bra and learn to walk in a way that doesn't cause them to jump around so much. If a girl doesn't like wearing bras then its like she has her Master's permission and ok to not have to wear one. Afterall, isn't her focus to please her Master and give up her control to him even in choices to wear bras?

JK

(in reply to nella)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 5:10:25 PM   
JohnathanKay


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

Yeesh! Sounds like a lot of work to me- from the Master's perspective. I'm a pretty tight-control kind of guy, I like ritual, I believe in protocol, etc etc, but this kind of thing is as restrictive on the Master as on the slave. I think D/s is fundamentally about instilling attitudes, not making rules substitute for the sub's judgement. In the service, enlisted personnel can make an officer's life miserable by saluting him to death, and a sub can do the same with a bunch of overly-explicit rules.
Ask yourself what the purpose of any 'rule' or protocol is, what is involved in enforcing it, what kind of mental dynamic does the rule, compliance, non-compliance, enforcement or lack of enforcement set up in the sub? In the Master? In the D/s relationship? Have you considered all the possible interpretations, situations, ramifications of any hard-and-fast rule? Do you have a lot of experience programming in C++? One of the great things about subs is they don't have to be coded on the machine level- take advantage of that.

Citizen Cane


One thing you missed - rules, like the 128, can be used to influence a mindset.

JK



(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 5:11:50 PM   
sub4hire


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Sorry but Merc already claimed ownership to the contract month's ago.


(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 5:26:21 PM   
sub4hire


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I've had this on my computer for a while now. No idea who the author was..but it is very sound advice. If anyone knows please let me know I'll give them the credit they deserve.



Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 7:55:04 PM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I think one of hte reasons I asked about this list is that it seems exact to the point of...impossiblity.

30 seconds? Will the owner count?

250 words? Will the owner check?

I wasn't putting this up as an example of a service-oriented contract, just one I had questions about. As far as I know, my new partner isn't interested in this kind of service except cursorally. But I guess I saw a prevelence of these kinds of lists and wondered what others thought.



I agree with you perverseangelic, as well as sub4hire (chatroomish) and with Taggard's statement about it being a love/sex slave contract. For G-d's sake, what if the slave gets a urinary tract infection and Master feels like fucking her? Is she supposed to put up with that excruciating pain, besides the possible danger in doing that? I know for sure I sure as shit wouldn't! Damn, I don't know anyone who is sex-oriented 24/7, nor would I want to; there are so many other cool things to talk about, ya know?

My Master and I talked about having a contract kind of like this one. He made many many drafts and we finally agreed that we would not be able to maintain that dynamic all the time.

quote:


12.Master’s ultimate gifts are his fluids, either his cum or his piss. Being precious, they should be begged for and either worn or digested, but only if first given permission. If Master deems sluts mouth worthy of receiving His cum, slave must hold it in her mouth and ask for permission to swallow.



LOLOL... "Athter <dribble dribble, oopth!>, aye eye 'wallow or fooiddths pleath?" LOLOL


< Message edited by cellogrrlMK -- 5/31/2005 8:10:30 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 5/31/2005 9:19:22 PM   
SteelBondager


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline
Having detailed rules is a real need for some people. I once saw a set of (I think it was) 90 rules in beautiful calligraphy done by a submissive. She made one set for each room of the house and they had each document framed. Each was about four feet tall and a foot and a half across, as I recall.

She told me how entranced she felt as she dutifully labored over each letter. For her, this cemented her role in this new relationship.

For some people detailed and exact rules that are enforced is as much a part of what they need as some need nudity or others need a collar.

Contracts are different. Typically, contracts outline the terms of the D/s relationship. Each party in the contract is required to keep his/her part of the bargain, or stand in breach of contract. Then, the contract needs to be pulled out and they need to follow the directions they left for themselves. Maybe things will be settled by a third party (possibly whoever presided over the collaring ceremony). Maybe service will be suspended until they can renegotiate. Whatever they decide.

Hope this is helpful.

By the way, I agree: 30 seconds to strip? How can you get out of boots and corsets in less than 30 seconds? No boots or corsets allowed? Why let a slave wear clothing at all if she can't wear boots and corsets? [insert non-annoying devilish smiley]

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/1/2005 1:44:46 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay

These rules set I wrote can be used in any way. Yes, I am the author. You can modify them. There are instructions on how to use them. Every relationship has a set of some kind of rules, guidelines and a general philosophy and understanding of how the relationship works. I just happen to write them down after reviewing a number of relationships where bdsm is an intregal part.



Odd. Right after I posted this, someone else told me they wrote them. I'm rather inclined to believe the person who approached me

(Incedentally, I didn't know they were his/hers when I posted them. Was simply intrigued by the rules.)

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/1/2005 1:46:49 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay

Bras don't support breasts or stop them from sagging more. They simply keep them from moving around a lot and they help to shape them into positions that you like. A larger girl certainly can be without a bra and learn to walk in a way that doesn't cause them to jump around so much.


You've never worn a bra.

Underwire bras support the breasts. As in, hold them up and close to the chest. In addition to that, they allow them to move less, but they are most -definatly- support garmets. Trust me on this one. I'm a 34DD and have been wearing a bra since I was 13. When it's off, they sag. When it's on, they're supported.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 40
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