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RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/7/2005 10:38:36 PM   
proudsub


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quote:

Proudsub (the keeper of the archives) could point you to the fact that this is not a new property and was used in the civil war.


Hmmmmm i think i'll pass on this one, don't remember a CM thread on it.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 4:24:57 PM   
JohnathanKay


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay

Bras don't support breasts or stop them from sagging more. They simply keep them from moving around a lot and they help to shape them into positions that you like. A larger girl certainly can be without a bra and learn to walk in a way that doesn't cause them to jump around so much.


You've never worn a bra.

Underwire bras support the breasts. As in, hold them up and close to the chest. In addition to that, they allow them to move less, but they are most -definatly- support garmets. Trust me on this one. I'm a 34DD and have been wearing a bra since I was 13. When it's off, they sag. When it's on, they're supported.



What I was saying is that a bra will not stop, slow down or eliminate breasts from sagging. Breasts will eventually drop. But if you wear a bra often like 12 hours a day or more - the breasts will drop further then if you wore your bra less hours a day or not at all. For girls with large breasts - when they wear bras their breasts don't get any kind of exercise - so their connective tissues get sudden drops when you take your bra off causing the connective tissues to overstretch. If these girls wore bras less or not at all then this connective tissue would not stretch so much.

JK

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 4:51:09 PM   
JohnathanKay


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay

These rules set I wrote can be used in any way. Yes, I am the author. You can modify them. There are instructions on how to use them. Every relationship has a set of some kind of rules, guidelines and a general philosophy and understanding of how the relationship works. I just happen to write them down after reviewing a number of relationships where bdsm is an intregal part.



Odd. Right after I posted this, someone else told me they wrote them. I'm rather inclined to believe the person who approached me

(Incedentally, I didn't know they were his/hers when I posted them. Was simply intrigued by the rules.)


I'd be interested in who said they wrote the 128 Basic slave Rules. I try to keep up on who is trying to take credit for something they clearly didn't originally write. I happen to be published in Secret Magazine in issues 14 and 15 - see this site: http://www.secretmag.com/Members/Magazines/MagazinesMain.asp
and at this Secret Magazine site:
http://www.secretmag.com/Secret/Best14/128SlavesRules.htm
You can see my official site for the rules: www.128basicslaverules.blogspot.com
And I am credited on a number of websites that carry the list. The original set was put on the website Enchantress's Secret Garden which you can find in the Wayback Machine website here: http://web.archive.org/web/19990117034022/www.iac.net/~llk/personal/personal.htm

So, whoever told you they wrote the original document would be incorrect unless they wrote their own version of the rules set. It is likely what you looked at is only the rules - because currently the document is much larger than just the rules. It contains a number of sections.

Johnathan Kay

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 4:59:43 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

What I was saying is that a bra will not stop, slow down or eliminate breasts from sagging. Breasts will eventually drop. But if you wear a bra often like 12 hours a day or more - the breasts will drop further then if you wore your bra less hours a day or not at all. For girls with large breasts - when they wear bras their breasts don't get any kind of exercise - so their connective tissues get sudden drops when you take your bra off causing the connective tissues to overstretch. If these girls wore bras less or not at all then this connective tissue would not stretch so much.


Is this a ploy to get us all to go braless? I guess it makes some sense.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 5:18:45 PM   
JohnathanKay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion

I've been in bra's since 4th grade I am 22 now. Someone who says bra's don't support them has obviously either A never worn one, B worn the wrong one Or C is talking out their ass.


I am not the only one saying this. There are plenty of websites that would tell you the same thing. Having a bra for A thru about B, some at C, and certainly at D (which isn't anything like DD) is really a waste money. Those girls would be better off in a long underwear t-shirt or camisole. Bras at those sizes do absolutley nothing except offer something different to wear over what is basically a flat chest or certainly one that has only perky breasts able to support themselves without the help of a bra.

quote:


Alsio I'd be carefull of any one who'd demand you drink their urine, I'm not sure any dr's would recommend urine consumption.


I doubt very many drs will recommend any practices of bdsm considering the risks of some of the activities.

Urine is about 98% water and it is excess from the body - not waste like feces are. While urine is often called waste of the kidneys parts of it can be reabsorbed by the body whereas feces is not. Urine is virtually sterile thus making it safe unless you have urinary tract or other problems that result in such toxins being released through your urine. A simple urine test will tell you if your urine is safe for consumption or peeing on your body or someone's elses. See this site about urine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine

Johnathan Kay

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 5:28:15 PM   
JohnathanKay


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Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

~sigh~ Someone needs to make -affordable- but comfortable bras. My good ones were very expensive, and not something I can afford on my own :(


Considering how many bras you and others like you buy in the course of a year or so I am sure you can afford to buy custom made bras. Financial distribution is a matter of choice. If you really want custom made bras you'd learn to go without certain other things you don't necessarily need as badly. The crux of most women who claim their breasts cause them pain is simply because over 80% of them, at last check, wear the wrong size and wear bras that don't really fit them well.

quote:


I hear ya. The cost of a good bra is utterly ridiculous. As a G-cup I have to shop at specialty stores. Oh to be a DD.


I am sure that if you have complaints now about with G-cups, that you'd develop the same complaints if you had DDs. Had you been closer to A and B at first then the complaint would be wondering about what bigger would be like.

Johnathan Kay

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 6:39:55 PM   
feline


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If anything I must say I find you amusing. Oh and when you put up the research to back up all you are saying, concerning bras that is, I'll be back.

Untill then,




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(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 8:51:26 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay
Considering how many bras you and others like you buy in the course of a year or so I am sure you can afford to buy custom made bras. Financial distribution is a matter of choice. If you really want custom made bras you'd learn to go without certain other things you don't necessarily need as badly. The crux of most women who claim their breasts cause them pain is simply because over 80% of them, at last check, wear the wrong size and wear bras that don't really fit them well.


What...two in a good year? I don't buy many peices of clothing. Nor do I buy many under garments. I'd much rather eat.

Yeah, I know I wear the wrong size. I haven't yet gotten to a fitting. According to the forumula you're su[pposed to use, I wear a size they don't make. I'm content with a size I can find.


quote:

I am sure that if you have complaints now about with G-cups, that you'd develop the same complaints if you had DDs. Had you been closer to A and B at first then the complaint would be wondering about what bigger would be like.

Johnathan Kay



Yup :) But based on what I find in stores, B and C can find bras. My friends with A's have the same problem I do. Lack of supply.

I know nothing about studies. I know about how I feel.

I am physically more comfortble in a bra than I am in a camesol/undershirt or without anything. I can pretty much say this -isn't- conditioning, because before I wore a C cup I was ok without a bra. Once I hit a C though, my body felt physically more content when my breasts were supported and held to my body. I have yet to find a garement that isn't a bra that does it as well as a bra does.

So, study or no study, at least one person is physically better off in a bra.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/10/2005 10:14:34 PM   
sub4hire


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

So, whoever told you they wrote the original document would be incorrect unless they wrote their own version of the rules set. It is likely what you looked at is only the rules - because currently the document is much larger than just the rules. It contains a number of sections.


The person who claimed he wrote the rules has replied to this thread bashing his own contract many times. He has also sent the contract to many boasting it was his.

I have little to no doubt the contract has been plagiarised many times over. Because you also took credit for them in 2004, if I'm not mistaken by following your link's that is the earliest where I actually see the contract. I'm not convinced you are the author either. I've seen a typical contract like this many times over, through out the years.
Only on the internet I must say. Never seen real people use these contracts yet.

Frankly I need more evidence before I will be swayed. I'm not like most. I don't read something insufficiently and blindly assume it is real.

I also have issues about your breast analogy, although I've not looked it up as of yet so I won't go into that.

Aside from that...do you know a dom named Devon who hangs out at the wetspot? He goes by the name SteelWhip online?

(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 6:47:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

The person who claimed he wrote the rules has replied to this thread bashing his own contract many times. He has also sent the contract to many boasting it was his.


You know what, I've ignored this thread for some time, but now that it's bothered beth it's time to address some issues. On page one post #8 I based these rules. Why? Because I wanted to join the list of people who said they were impossible to live with in real life. I wanted to see how far it would get. Then as someone who knew us pointed out, these weren't exactly our rules, but one of the foundation documents that were used in creating our rules. The person pointing that out to us was one who asked us to share our rules with them, who we've been with in person, and knows us. All aspects of the rules may not be original but in the form they exist, they are unique.

For the record, when these rules were created, I used the 128 Rules and a few others as guides and for the foundation of discussion. At the time beth was not living with me full time so some aspects, like the webcam, were included. As we've counseled many to do, we communicated for many hours and went over each rule long before they became "our rules". Then a ritual was added as part of the document. Finally, at the end of the process the rules that we live by came into being. I printed them on quality paper with beth and my pictures in the background. They sit, signed and framed, on the night stand next to beth's side of the bed. This was over two and one half years ago. I wish I kept all the "plagiarized" source, but I seem to recall they were at sites where the author suggested they could be used as models for a couple contemplating a full time 24/7 relationship. If I owe any money for copy right infringement - send me the bill.

Now if some sanctimonious, self important, pompous, individual can't believe that anyone can, would, or is living by those rules that's their problem. They probably don't believe you can piss with a hard on without excruciating pain even though they don't have a penis. I've never seen Everest, the biggest thing on the planet, but I trust it exists. For anyone who needs to be a modern day Thomas and to put his fingers in the holes made by the wounds you're welcome to come to Palos Verdes for you own personal verification.

Meanwhile, I exist, beth exists, we exist as a 24/7 lifestyle couple under these rules. Debate their merit, their real life application, or the fanatic anal retentive mind it would take to monitor and enforce all you like. It's unfortunate that some people have seen but still choose not to believe. Although we share everything about our lives with others we don't share each other. To beth and I the lifestyle IS a 24/7 intimate, sexual, and erotic way of life. Sharing a spanking or a scene with another would be, to us, the equivalent of sex. Yes I have allowed beth to be the subject of a demonstration or even encounter a new sensation in my presence, such as the waxing by Taggard in Vegas, but those encounters were not a scene. They are sensations, not the sensational.

I guess some don't believe we are as we represent. To me, that means they are either jealous, or because they haven't achieved a sense of completeness need to challenge it when others claim they have it. Whatever. Challenge the words, debate the proper amount of urine intake possible. beth's worn a bra maybe a dozen times in the 3 years we've been together and any sag is un-noticeable. she is naked very quickly when we come home, but on chilly nights she is permitted a bathrobe.

My god, the need to justify or explain our relationship really pisses me off, especially when the majority of sources are on-line "grand-master" types whose only authority is over which hand they'll use masturbating while on-line. But worse are the submissives who document and dictate exactly what their "masters" are allowed to do to them, and who if the intensity it too much, "safe word". I pity them most, they'll never know what's beyond the safe word. I guess the thought of living under rules and to totally trust someone else for everything is so contrary to how they live they can not perceive that type of existence. I feel sorry for them in that regard too.

If anyone has any questions, ask me or beth. If anyone has any doubt, come see us or get over it - that's your issue and problem.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 8:18:04 AM   
sub4hire


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That isn't the issue. The issue is you, yourself sent them to many claiming they were your's. Ok, so you found a list on the internet and tried to change it as your own.
No problem there.

The issue I found at the time...is you bashed your own contract. You told me it was because collarme people and you were having fun with the " " I don't remember that word. I have a photographic memory and as I told you I was trying to forget this happened. Move on.

Then this jonathon guy comes along...it is humorous now. People fighting over something. I've found it odd he zoomed right in on this thread over and over without responding to any others.

The lifestyle is primarily about trust and common sense the way I see it. You must be able to trust other's or you die. If you don't have common sense you die. We find liar's and people who clearly don't have common sense everyday on these boards.
I guess what I'm trying to get to is clarification would be good. Myself, I would have put you on somewhat of a pedestool if you had stood up and took responsibility for your own actions early on. Also discussed it and tried to tell us what it felt like. Rather than trying to make fun of everyone.

Hope that makes sense.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 8:35:41 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

sub4hire: Myself, I would have put you on somewhat of a pedestool


And therein lies a key difference. I don't need that anyone put me on any kind of pedestal.

The initial OP's question was if anyone could live by these rules. Why kill the thread by saying some does indeed live by rules with this foundation. I thought it better to take the contrary position in the spirit of debate. It wasn't until the thread became a flame war that I didn't follow through with full disclosure. Besides anyone who knew me, contacted me direct and shared the "inside" scoop. And having sent our rules to anyone who asked -I thought that my personal integrity wouldn't come into question.

I anticipated the thread would die. If not, I anticipated that those that knew wouldn't need to perpetuated it. I was just amazed that knowing all that you know you kept this thread going for whatever agenda. So regarding this question:
quote:

Hope that makes sense.
NOPE!

See, I only have one profile. Actually to be more exact - WE only have one profile. I know that puts us in the minority, maybe I should just create a new one - as I KNOW some do, when I want to "debate" myself, but that's not me. If I post something wrong or incorrect I apologize and admit it. If I find something funny, ridiculous, or just want to make fun of myself, I do it. I don't lack the confidence to be wrong or poke fun at my own long list of eccentricities. I am at this site only for amusement, advise, and offer of assistance if asked. As I've represented many times, I brought beth here because as her first and only Dom and now Master, I didn't think it appropriate to only have one source of information. I represent NO absolute except as it relates to me and beth.

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to get to is clarification would be good.
Re-reading everything posted, I missed your request for clarification. Sorry you didn't have the opportunity or the courage if you needed clarification so badly you didn't ask it of us when we have been together. I didn't realize that beth and I presented such a cold and hard un-accessible exterior either via on-line correspondence or in person. We'll work on this fault.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 6/11/2005 8:59:46 AM >

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 8:36:50 AM   
sub4hire


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Then it is your issue as it has always been. Fact is you were too fearful to stand up for your own convictions and admit the contract was yours.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 9:01:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

sub4hire: Myself, I would have put you on somewhat of a pedestool

And therein lies a key difference. I don't need that anyone put me on any kind of pedestal.

The initial OP's question was if anyone could live by these rules. Why kill the thread by saying some does indeed live by rules with this foundation. I thought it better to take the contrary position in the spirit of debate. It wasn't until the thread became a flame war that I didn't follow through with full disclosure. Besides anyone who knew me, contacted me direct and shared the "inside" scoop. And having sent our rules to anyone who asked -I thought that my personal integrity wouldn't come into question.

I anticipated the thread would die. If not, I anticipated that those that knew wouldn't need to perpetuated it. I was just amazed that knowing all that you know you kept this thread going for whatever agenda. So regarding this question: quote:

Hope that makes sense. NOPE!

See, I only have one profile. Actually to be more exact - WE only have one profile. I know that puts us in the minority, maybe I should just create a new one - as I KNOW some do, when I want to "debate" myself, but that's not me. If I post something wrong or incorrect I apologize and admit it. If I find something funny, ridiculous, or just want to make fun of myself, I do it. I don't lack the confidence to be wrong or poke fun at my own long list of eccentricities. I am at this site only for amusement, advise, and offer of assistance if asked. As I've represented many times, I brought beth here because as her first and only Dom and now Master, I didn't think it appropriate to only have one source of information. I represent NO absolute except as it relates to me and beth.

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to get to is clarification would be good.Re-reading everything posted, I missed your request for clarification. Sorry you didn't have the opportunity or the courage if you needed clarification so badly you didn't ask it of us when we have been together. I didn't realize that beth and I presented such a cold and hard un-accessible exterior either via on-line correspondence or in person. We'll work on this fault.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 9:08:34 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

See, I only have one profile. Actually to be more exact - WE only have one profile. I know that puts us in the minority, maybe I should just create a new one - as I KNOW some do, when I want to "debate" myself, but that's not me. If I post something wrong or incorrect I apologize and admit it. If I find something funny, ridiculous, or just want to make fun of myself, I do it. I don't lack the confidence to be wrong or poke fun at my own long list of eccentricities. I am at this site only for amusement, advise, and offer of assistance if asked. As I've represented many times, I brought beth here because as her first and only Dom and now Master, I didn't think it appropriate to only have one source of information. I represent NO absolute except as it relates to me and beth.


I guess what I'm trying to get to is clarification would be good.Re-reading everything posted, I missed your request for clarification. Sorry you didn't have the opportunity or the courage if you needed clarification so badly you didn't ask it of us when we have been together. I didn't realize that beth and I presented such a cold and hard un-accessible exterior either via on-line correspondence or in person. We'll work on this fault.


If this site and the people here are such jokes to you. Why are you here? To attempt to make a laughing stock out of all the good people here who are here to read and learn?
How would that make you feel if you were one of them? If you actually valued people's opinions and looked up to them, only to find out you are a big joke to them?
In your profile here you claim yourself a mentor. Mentor's do not make jokes of people or laugh. That is the exact opposite of what they do.
You claim to be one thing one moment, then claim to be something else the next.

Why not re-name yourself from the self imposed emperor title you put on yourself to something more accurate. Joker, don't take anything seriously because I am not serious.
Or something more catchy as I am sure you can come up with that.

For the record, I did see you editing your own post for quite a while. Perhaps you edited an apology in there somewhere. Although I'm yet to see it. I really would'nt mind seeing the apology for laughing at everyone here and laughing at your own contract.

For clarification as you and I both know. This is not the first time we are speaking about this contract. I have asked for clarification. I just thought you thought a bit more about people here on the board's to actually consider them as well.

From where I stand you are the one still lacking courage and admitting your own wrongdoings. Unless of course that grand edit function you love has changed things.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 9:10:03 AM   
feline


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Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline
Honesty is the basis for trust. How is someone to be trusted if they are not honest??? Hhmmm?






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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 9:15:46 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay

What I was saying is that a bra will not stop, slow down or eliminate breasts from sagging. Breasts will eventually drop. But if you wear a bra often like 12 hours a day or more - the breasts will drop further then if you wore your bra less hours a day or not at all. For girls with large breasts - when they wear bras their breasts don't get any kind of exercise - so their connective tissues get sudden drops when you take your bra off causing the connective tissues to overstretch. If these girls wore bras less or not at all then this connective tissue would not stretch so much.

JK


Are you saying that this 'connective tissue' stretches less when it's subjected to gravity more? Where is this tissue? Is it just the skin of the breast you're referring to? Skin doesn't operate the way a muscle does. The more you stretch skin, the more stretched out it becomes, given time. Wearing a bra significantly reduces the amount of stretching on breast skin, in my opinion (a big-breasted woman who almost always wears bras and doesn't have droopy ones).

Or am I mistaken in what you're saying?

~ Elektra


(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 1:53:47 PM   
JohnathanKay


Posts: 17
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

What I was saying is that a bra will not stop, slow down or eliminate breasts from sagging. Breasts will eventually drop. But if you wear a bra often like 12 hours a day or more - the breasts will drop further then if you wore your bra less hours a day or not at all. For girls with large breasts - when they wear bras their breasts don't get any kind of exercise - so their connective tissues get sudden drops when you take your bra off causing the connective tissues to overstretch. If these girls wore bras less or not at all then this connective tissue would not stretch so much.


Is this a ploy to get us all to go braless? I guess it makes some sense.


It's just an FYI. If it causes women to consider wearing their bras less or not at all then they would be doing themselves a favor.

JK

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 2:14:43 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnathanKay


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

What I was saying is that a bra will not stop, slow down or eliminate breasts from sagging. Breasts will eventually drop. But if you wear a bra often like 12 hours a day or more - the breasts will drop further then if you wore your bra less hours a day or not at all. For girls with large breasts - when they wear bras their breasts don't get any kind of exercise - so their connective tissues get sudden drops when you take your bra off causing the connective tissues to overstretch. If these girls wore bras less or not at all then this connective tissue would not stretch so much.


Is this a ploy to get us all to go braless? I guess it makes some sense.


It's just an FYI. If it causes women to consider wearing their bras less or not at all then they would be doing themselves a favor.

JK



I would appreciate it if you would cite your sources for this. Based on personal experience, it is innacurate, so I would be interested in seeing what methods were used for determining your assertations.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to JohnathanKay)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Service "contracts" (no it isn't about le... - 6/11/2005 2:19:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Remember my big post feline? the clueless will remain so.....that sword cuts both ways.

Kiss to you and yours.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to feline)
Profile   Post #: 80
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