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CIAW - 3/11/2007 1:06:05 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I have been on these forums for about 16 months. As regulars here know, subjects recycle, one of which is "what should the distracted married person do with his or her BDSM inclinations?" For me this is a complex question which defies easy answers or straightforward moral platitudes.

Thanks to Dan Savage, though, I have a new brilliantly coined term which might help me and others in future debates:

CIAW:

>Some fuckwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: Fuck you, you self-righteous Pollyanna fucktards. I am so sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without�forever!�if their mate is unwilling or incapable.

For the balance of the article, click on the link and go to the second the question by Some on the side.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 1:07:25 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LMAO

now that is priceless

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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 1:39:51 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		The CIAW-ers won't like it...they won't like it at all.... 

It doesn't matter how you say it...cheating is always, always wrong.  Yes, of course people should have the courage to split up a whole family because they're not getting any good sex.  Yes, of course people should all always communicate perfectly and resolve their broken relationships in perfect poly or 'open' relationships.  People should always know exactly what they want and how to get it.  People should never be confused or inadequate or needy.

Deviation will not be tolerated.  After all...once people start deviating from the One True Rule that CIAW, well then we'd all be deviants wouldn't we...

....ummm....sorry, I forgot for a moment there....errrr...we are deviants, aren't we?  So maybe we are allowed to fail to be perfect?

Laura (pointlessly mumbling into the wind)

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 1:55:55 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to gentlethistle)
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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:09:36 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Without my dominace...



"dominance"...dominance with an extra n....   Don't thank me.  Happy to help.  No one is perfect.

Laura

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:15:06 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		People inflict non-consensual emotional pain on me every day.  Some of it is unintentional. Some of it is inflicted by members of my family or someone I'm in a relationship with.  I'm not a masochist.  I don't particularly enjoy it. 

For the dull, dull record I am a serial monogomist so I could probably go the CIAW Convention without getting thrown out.  But my point is that I wouldn't want to.  That's all.

Laura

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:22:12 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?


With relationships and other vapourous substances, it is often hard to tell what the direct effects of an action are.

If I cheat on my hypothetical girlfriend, I cause emotional pain.  If I don't cheat, and one night, during one of our interminably boring rounds of "making love,"  I commit a murder-suicide, mostly to see if it all even matters, then I have caused much more emotional pain, albeit to other people, to which I will not be witness.

Yours,


benji

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Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:23:15 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Yes people inflict non-consensual pain on you every day. However, those people did not enter into a relationship with you where it was stated that they would not inflict that particular kind of pain. When I state that I am only interested in monogamy, my potential partner agrees with me and we commit to a monogamous relationship and then they break the agreement without negotiation they have done several things. 1) They have proven to me that their word can not be trusted and therefore are useless to me as a partner without some intense talking and probably couple's therapy and severe effort on their part. 2) They have proved to me that they do not care about my emotions or the pain I would feel at this betrayal. Again, useless to me as an emotional partner. 3) If they have children, they have no care for the example they set for their children (the whole not breaking your word thing) and that it's ok to have no regard for the emotional well-being of your spouse.


Now, I won't condemn a person forever for it. I have cheated, though not on a husband. I realize it was a rotten terrible thing to do and it caused a great deal of undue suffering. I saw my mother suffer because of it. I suffered because of it. Suddenly all the morals taught to me by my father seemed useless. People can change and stop - if they really want to. However, it seems to me that most of the people talking about cheating here would like to pretend that it doesn't affect anyone and completely avoid responsibility for their actions.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to gentlethistle)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:25:33 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?


With relationships and other vapourous substances, it is often hard to tell what the direct effects of an action are.

If I cheat on my hypothetical girlfriend, I cause emotional pain.  If I don't cheat, and one night, during one of our interminably boring rounds of "making love,"  I commit a murder-suicide, mostly to see if it all even matters, then I have caused much more emotional pain, albeit to other people, to which I will not be witness.

Yours,


benji

*Grins* If you commit murder-sucide over that you've got more issues on your hands then just boring sex.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:29:11 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

*Grins* If you commit murder-sucide over that you've got more issues on your hands then just boring sex.


Yeah, but so do you, you pervert.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:30:37 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji


Yeah, but so do you, you pervert.

Yours,


benji


I gots more issues then Playboy.

(Ok maybe not that many. *halo glimmer*)

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:47:56 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		i dont understand what the fucking problem with just admitting its wrong?

Cheating IS wrong.

Ok........... so you've done something wrong

Are you going to burn in hell?  Doubtful

Lying is wrong... we all do that

Speeding is illegal.. most of us all do that.

What the fuck is so wrong with actually being able to ADMIT you are wrong about something?

CHEATING IS ALWAYS WRONG... yet i've done it.  A whole hellavue alot when i was younger.  i was wrong.... ooo big deal.. so what... (gonna burn in hell here) 

It always amazes me watching people swear up and down about how "right" they are.  Making excuse after excuse after excuse.. when all their doing (is not proving their point fyi) is just making themselves lose more face.  One of these days, i'll actually run into some one who can say "ya know what, i did it, and yeah it was wrong"

Congratufuckinglations.  Some one was able to stand up and actually be an adult and take responsiblity for themselves.



_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:56:04 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		So, hang on...let's get this straight.  It's better to cheat, admit that it's wrong and condemn it than it is to not actually cheat at all but to happen to believe that there might be certain circumstances where it is the lesser of two evils?

Brilliant!  What a fool I am.  I wish now I'd just screwed around, then confessed, wrung my hands and gone on to castigate everyone else for their fall from grace.

But instead I'll do something practical in the here and now that contributes to a better world.  I'll log off and go get some sleep.

Laura


(in reply to Devilslilsister)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:56:54 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?


What about the non consentual pain inflicted on a spouse by someone who vows to "honor, cherish, love... etc.... for better or worse.. richer and poorer...etc" and then bails on them physically or emotionally??  i always hate the way the cheater is strung up yet the poor "abused" spouse is left with a halo on their heads for enduring such "abuse".  Life is complicated - decisions are made - some outcomes can't be predicted - people get hurt, yeah it all sucks... but the fault doesn't lie ONLY with the cheater.  Who is anyone to judge anyway?  If you expect someone to live up to their word - be damned ready to live up to yours as well!

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 2:58:09 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlethistle

So, hang on...let's get this straight.  It's better to cheat, admit that it's wrong and condemn it than it is to not actually cheat at all but to happen to believe that there might be certain circumstances where it is the lesser of two evils?

Brilliant!  What a fool I am.  I wish now I'd just screwed around, then confessed, wrung my hands and gone on to castigate everyone else for their fall from grace.

But instead I'll do something practical in the here and now that contributes to a better world.  I'll log off and go get some sleep.

Laura



Being the lesser of two evils still doesn't make something right or acceptable. That is what people refuse to accept.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to gentlethistle)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 3:05:35 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I predict this will quicky turn into an "I'm a better person than you because...." type thread.

quickly....


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 3:07:24 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I predict this will quicky turn into an "I'm a better person than you because...." type thread.

quickly....


/nods in agreement

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 3:07:42 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Sheesh, I forget to hit enter, get up to get dressed, come back..........and it already has.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 3:12:18 PM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family?


What about the non consentual pain inflicted on a spouse by someone who vows to "honor, cherish, love... etc.... for better or worse.. richer and poorer...etc" and then bails on them physically or emotionally??  i always hate the way the cheater is strung up yet the poor "abused" spouse is left with a halo on their heads for enduring such "abuse".  Life is complicated - decisions are made - some outcomes can't be predicted - people get hurt, yeah it all sucks... but the fault doesn't lie ONLY with the cheater.  Who is anyone to judge anyway?  If you expect someone to live up to their word - be damned ready to live up to yours as well!


Y'know, I gotta agree here.  My x-husband cheated on me, and the outcome of the infidelity devastated my life as I knew it (married out of high-school, at-home mother of two, no marketable job skills suddenly forced to support myself and my small(er) family, loss of my home...).  At first, I (and most everyone in our 'world') held him entirely to blame, but at one point, I had to admit I held some fault in the breakdown of the marriage, as well.  Maybe not the bulk of it (he was responsible for his actions, of course), but some.  It sucked, and it was a hard pill to swallow, but it was worth it.  I grew from that experience, and I used to say, "If it wasn't for all the emotional crap you have to go through, I'd really recommend divorce!  It shows you how tough you can be!" 

I wouldn't really recommend it, of course, but I would say that the 'cheater' isn't always soley to blame.


_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: CIAW - 3/11/2007 3:20:21 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i am sorry for the pain you endured valeca, couldn't have been easy.  It shows a lot of courage and soul searching to be able to come to grips with what happened and take some of the responsibility - this is how people change and grow.  Not at all easy, good luck to you - i am sure you are a stronger and wiser woman for it.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to valeca)
Profile   Post #: 20
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