quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

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ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

True enough, pixel, however, consider the attorneys and accountants I've met who were raised and educated to be gentlemen and successful businessmen who were just asses.

Being raised in a given manner does not guarantee that the man will grow up to be anything other than a jerk, if at heart he's just a jerk.  I have met My share of well educated, well heeled silver spooned 'gentlemen' who were NOTHING but jerks.

Sad, but true!

TM

Ma'am, I'm doing my best not to bust out laughing my bottom off!  Many of the 'silver spooned gentlemen' you speak of were taught what I'll refer to as 'table manners & social graces'; the ones expected of their social class and not how to be the 'gentlemen at heart' you refer to.  The latter does come partly from a place deep in the heart and is fostered through being mentored by men and women in a growing boy's life who teach him to respect and show the proper regard for women they deserve.  The two are very different things. 
 
When I was in college, they definitely didn't offer any classes that I can recall on how to be a gentleman.  Not to sound disrespectful, but the professions you mention, aren't exactly high on my personal list of those I think of as being comprised of people known for having a lot of personal integrity.  Much of Corporate America and the business scandals of the last few years would serve as fine examples of that!  Here in Texas, the Enron scandal in particular comes to mind. 
 
As with any generalizations, there are of course always exceptions.  For anyone whom I've offended, please pardon me as my statements above were not intended to be of a personal nature.
 
The bottom line is that there's a lot more to being a gentleman than having good table manners, knowing which spoon or fork to use at a given time, opening doors, or carrying bags for the ladies.  A gentleman also has integrity of character such that being honest with both himself and others in his life is important enough to him that his word still means something to him.  For me personally, it's not because I care what others I don't even know will think, so much as it is because I care what I think of myself.  There are many other things I could say about being a gentleman, but I suspect we both know what I'm talking about and I really don't want to hijack this thread. 
 
You're right, there are lots of "jerks" out there who could care less about how their actions affect others just so long as they get what they want.  Sadly, they affect us all.
 
 - pixel

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

When you elevate being a slave above the relationship with a guy, most will will balk. This does not surprise me in the least.

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ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

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ORIGINAL: petitedomme21

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I did not address pixelslave's response because I understand what he is trying to say.  But I also feel it is a matter of the male point of view as opposed to the Female point of view.  He thinks We seek perfection and that is not going to happen.  I agree that perfection is not going to happen.  I disagree that we are seeking it.  We are seeking something that is outside of societal norms.  And that makes it much harder to find.  There are many who think they want this, but they really do not have the skills to make their normalcy the polar opposite of what they have been raised by family and society to understand is the male role and attitude.  As long as they can put on the mantle of submission when it is convenient, they can usually pull it off for a while.  But for many, the societal expectations are so ingrained, they do not even realize they are "balking".  They think they are being reasonable. 


Yup- and this above is so true and difficult for us to overcome unfort.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

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ORIGINAL: subexploring

In general, I've had better luck introducing some domme elements into my vanilla matches than trying to find vanilla compatibility with domme women. 

Hey subexloring!

I agree.  It seems to fly in the face of common sense but I also (tend to) find this to be true. 

Sad really.

Best of luck to you brother. 

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ORIGINAL: IamDifferent1

Though i am but a slave-boi-wannabe, i feel as if i can relate a good deal to many of the frustrations expressed here by the Dommes. But...it makes logical sense that this wouldn't be any easier finding true love AND compatibility here than it is in the vanilla world.

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ORIGINAL: savannasub

theres ample female women owning complete male slaves as is gentleman owning complete female slaves although not many people can live up to TPE.  the problem for dommeswomen here on this cm site is these dommewomen dont want men who are submissive in just the sexual relations areas. people mix up the two of bottoms and submissives and they are not the same and this causes the womens dommes to appear they are asking too much.  women are talking to bottoms *the majority of men here are bottoms* so the women are running around in circles.  its as if being in a room of 100 men and talking about submissiveness to 90men who are bottoms and 10 are submissives *the room of men are going to say {you demand to much} to the womens dommes but thats only for the reason these men are not subissives ,they are bottoms.

i would venture to say to these dommeswomen ask cm for a cateogory  "Bottom" for these men and a corresponding sextion label "Top" for the bottom men so these types  people can talk together amongst themselves and get things going and so the submissives and the dommeswomen can start talking to the write and correct ones and no more frustration and mix ups of two different worlds.

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ORIGINAL: savannasub
theres ample female women owning complete male slaves as is gentleman owning complete female slaves although not many people can live up to TPE.  the problem for dommeswomen here on this cm site is these dommewomen dont want men who are submissive in just the sexual relations areas. people mix up the two of bottoms and submissives and they are not the same and this causes the womens dommes to appear they are asking too much. 

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

To me, someone who submits sexually only but along D/s principles is still a submissive at some level.
Cheers,
Sea

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the word submissive means to submit. you cant call yoruself a submissive if you come with certain conditions under which you will only submit. Masters call femals subs with conditions a bottom and the dommeswomen should right along do so to. a master or mistress has the final say to their submissives even after long discussions. pity people dont adhere to the tradional terms of d/s so as to not confuse expectations. a submissive who expects to have the final word in disagreements should submit to a top and call themselves what they are, a bottom. sub womens and men who wnat to submit sometimes when it suits them should be upfront in the beginnings so the lifestyle masters will know they are talking with a bottom, sub-partime peoples. ORIGINAL: savannasub

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ORIGINAL: savannasub

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
To me, someone who submits sexually only but along D/s principles is still a submissive at some level.
Cheers,
Sea

could u clarify the underlined portion?

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ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I do object to the generalization that Dominas who would like a relationship based upon My or very similar preferences are all considered unreasonable and asking too much of every single male out there.  This may be true in many instances (more's the pity) but it is out there.

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

He likes to provide pleasure or be told what to do.

Cheers,
Sea

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

And let's say he is not submissive outside the bedroom.

Cheers,
Sea

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ORIGINAL: TigressFL

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the word submissive means to submit. you cant call yoruself a submissive if you come with certain conditions under which you will only submit. Masters call femals subs with conditions a bottom and the dommeswomen should right along do so to. a master or mistress has the final say to their submissives even after long discussions. pity people dont adhere to the tradional terms of d/s so as to not confuse expectations. a submissive who expects to have the final word in disagreements should submit to a top and call themselves what they are, a bottom. sub womens and men who wnat to submit sometimes when it suits them should be upfront in the beginnings so the lifestyle masters will know they are talking with a bottom, sub-partime peoples. ORIGINAL: savannasub

I disagree with you greatly lol

In my opinion:

1. A bottom is someone that is in it for the BDSM "play" and it has ZERO to do with domination and submission in any form. There is no submission, there is no serving, there is no surrender. It is about the kink, period.

2. A submissive submits to negotiated and agreed upon areas only and retains all rights, limits and safewords as they so desire and negotiate. A sumbissive is not goign to allow someone to have total control over how they behave at all times, every decision that the owner may want to make for them which could be very extensive. They expect to be treated at a more "equal" level in at least a few aspects in the relationship. Many view slavery as being a doormat becase they cannot relate to or wrap their head around giving anyone that much control.

3. A slave enters into the relationship agreeing to surrender their right to "make decisions"  in the relationship, their limits become whatever their owners limits are (or whatever their owner "allows") and and they are literally viewed as "human property".

Above is how I view the differences. That fact is that there will be many people that agree with me and many people that will get pissed off at my point of view lol There will also be many people that assume I am making a judgement call and actually saying that one is greater than the other (I am soo sick of that BS whiney debate lol) which is not even remotely close to true! I simply view each one very "differently". In addition, many people make assumptions as to how each one are treated. Many assume submissive are actually treated better than slave which is by far the truth. I know situations where the submissives where treated worse than any slave I have ever encountered and I know siutations where the slave was treated rather poorly as well. The distinction between what each role is has ZERO to do with "how they are treated" by their owner.

Rarely do people see eye to eye on this topic lol

To each their own,

Tigress~FL

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ORIGINAL: Wickad

From reading most of the posts (I admit to skipping most of the last page) I keep finding little phrases that don't really sit right with me.  I'm not going to get into who said what here but the general disconnect  seems to be between Dominant women wanting men who truly submit vs. men who allow said Dominant women to 'dominate' them at their sufferance. 

The idea that a slave or submissive would negotiate how to spend joint income and seriously believe that they would be offering up more than an opinion, OR, that a slave or submissive would balk at having to do something they may not like to do and really believe that professing love of the Dominant would thus entitle them to a 'pass' on said chore .... these things smack of a tacit agreement with the societal norm.  This norm of course being that men are 'entitled' in our society and women are not.

I do not view my being 'entitled' as aberrant.  I see my giving instruction or direction as my right and I do so many times without really thinking about it.  Please do not mistake me, I'm not suggesting I'm a bossy sort but rather that if I want something done I tell the person doing it what I want, thank them for their time and move on - there isn't anything strange about it (well, in my eyes anyway - lol).   I find that my having to clarify being decisive and exacting strange, for if I were a Dominant man these same traits would be seen as obvious and highly desirable.

What I find the hardest thing to find in a slave is an adherence to my paradigm.  It is an attitude that pervades all aspects of someone's life, not just when it is 'allowed' because it is play time.  It is a core belief that I am in control because we both have agreed that I am.

I hope this made sense to you folks as it did seem a bit rambling to me but ... it's late at night and .... well, I'm off to bed - lol.

Wickad

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ORIGINAL: Wickad
From reading most of the posts (I admit to skipping most of the last page) I keep finding little phrases that don't really sit right with me.  I'm not going to get into who said what here but the general disconnect  seems to be between Dominant women wanting men who truly submit vs. men who allow said Dominant women to 'dominate' them at their sufferance. 

quote:

The idea that a slave or submissive would negotiate how to spend joint income and seriously believe that they would be offering up more than an opinion, OR, that a slave or submissive would balk at having to do something they may not like to do and really believe that professing love of the Dominant would thus entitle them to a 'pass' on said chore .... these things smack of a tacit agreement with the societal norm. 

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ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

"He likes to provide pleasure or be told what to do. "

replacing the or with and is even sweeter :) especially when she has a lot of good and wise things to say. lol :)