RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very Last One."

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 4:05:52 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

Reading these forums makes me glad we have a representative democracy =)

Republic.

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 4:22:34 PM

Sicarius

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From: New Orleans
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
You can pick extremist statements from any camp to prove ones point but it doesn't mean it is a common view held by the general population. Quoting Pat J Buchannan could be quoted to prove the US is a country full of fascists and racists but does it really prove anything other than the nasty character of Buchannan? No, of course it doesn't and neither does quoting Sheik Ahmad Bahr prove anything.

Okay, I'll agree with that statement, but ... what was FirmhandKY's "point" exactly? I will assume that because you make the analogy that "quoting PJB could ... prove the US is a country full of fascists and racists" ... means that you are assuming that he is saying the same of Palestinians.

I don't believe he said that.

I believe that he questioned why a representative of their government is making such statements and yet we are sending that government 60 million dollars. It seems to me that his argument is that he believes that this is fiscally irresponsible. He is showing us that a representative of the government we are aiding wishes to see us all killed ... I don't believe he's off base, here.

-Sicarius

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"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 4:31:21 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sicarius

I believe that he questioned why a representative of their government is making such statements and yet we are sending that government 60 million dollars. It seems to me that his argument is that he believes that this is fiscally irresponsible. He is showing us that a representative of the government we are aiding wishes to see us all killed ... I don't believe he's off base, here.

That was exactly my point.

FirmKY

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 5:17:53 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I'd be quite interested to see some evidence of what the West chooses.
Follow up your interest with some research, even contrary; especially contrary.

quote:

Feel free to throw in exactly what constitutes "The West" in your mind, too.
Why? Use whatever definition you choice and make your own point.

This doesnt make sense, Merc.

Sweeping generalities were used in a sentence, and NorthernGent asked for some clarification.

I have yet to hear a scholar respond to a query for more information with "Do your own damn research" and
"My words mean whatever you think they mean" when questioned on their views.

Sinergy

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 5:22:09 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sicarius

I believe that he questioned why a representative of their government is making such statements and yet we are sending that government 60 million dollars. It seems to me that his argument is that he believes that this is fiscally irresponsible. He is showing us that a representative of the government we are aiding wishes to see us all killed ... I don't believe he's off base, here.

That was exactly my point.

FirmKY

You are not sending the Palestinian government $60 million. Israel is stopping all monies to the Palestinian authority. The only money getting through is to NGOs.

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 5:30:22 PM

martyrized

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

Reading these forums makes me glad we have a representative democracy =)

Indeed. *sigh*

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 5:43:43 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You are not sending the Palestinian government $60 million. Israel is stopping all monies to the Palestinian authority. The only money getting through is to NGOs.

Perhaps. Source?

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:04:57 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Kill all Americans
May. 1, 2007

Sheik Ahmad Bahr, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council,

Abdel Aziz Duwaik (Arabic: عبد العزيز دويك) is a member of Hamas, he is the new chairman and the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council and member from the West Bank. Duwaik was a university professor at An-Najah National University in Nablus on the West Bank.

So it's like when Nancy Pelosi is out of town and Barney Frank has the gavel.

I'm not sure that's really an "Official" pronouncement.

What has Abbas or Haniya said?

quote:

during a Friday sermon at a Sudan mosque

Oh, it wasn't official, it's a 2nd string representative, and he's at a speaking gig out of the country.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/2/2007 6:07:21 PM >

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:26:42 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

Reading these forums makes me glad we have a representative democracy =)

Too bad they don't have them in the Islamist world... well... except Iraq.

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:28:14 PM

juliaoceania

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Here are some hateful Christians to try on for size

quote:

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93

quote:

"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals--the two things seem to go together."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 1/21/93

quote:

We at the Christian Coalition are raising an army who cares. We are training people to be effective -- to be elected to school boards, to city councils, to state legislatures, and to key positions in political parties.... By the end of this decade, if we work and give and organize and train, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN AMERICA
-- Pat Robertson, in a fundraising letter, July 4, 1991

quote:

Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 11, 1985, defending his stance that only Christians and Jews are fit to hold public office

quote:

If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt that they have no business administering government policies in a country that favors freedom and equality.... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their suffering.... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if they were ever put into practice.
-- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 219

quote:

I know it sounds somewhat Machiavellian and evil, to think that you could send a squad in to take out somebody like Osama bin Laden, or to take out the head of North Korea, but isn't it better to do something like that, to take out Milosevic, to take out Saddam Hussein, rather than to spend billions of dollars on a war that harms innocent civilians and destroys the infrastructure of a country?
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 9, 1999, quoted in Martin McLaughlin, "Pat Robertson favors assassinations," August 14, 1999, World Socialist Web

quote:

[Despite Hitler's anti-Semitic and genocidal tendencies, he was] an individual of great courage.... Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path.
-- Pat Buchanan, in a 1977 column, The Guardian, January 14, 1992, quoted from Political Amazon's "Quotes from Hell"

quote:

The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.
-- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

Just some selected hate.... and I do not know how many times I have heard people say we should nuke the Middle East because of 9-11...

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:32:20 PM

FatDomDaddy

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Julia...

Where are Christian LEADERS invoking Christ to smote and wipe out counties, religious faithful and ethnic groups?

In

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 5/2/2007 6:34:11 PM >

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:34:44 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Julia...

Where are Christian LEADERS invoking Christ to smote and wipe out countyies and ethnic groups?

Pat Robertson is one of the most powerful men in America... and people around the world know who he is and what sort of power he has within the Republican Party

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Post #: 32

RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:37:07 PM

Sicarius

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Are you advocating that we give the Islamic fanatics a free pass because of the fact that there are Christian fanatics, or are you saying that they should be hated equally? I'm not precisely certain as to what your point is, here ... I know that Robertson, Buchannan, and Falwell are hated by a fairly large number of people.

As a New Orleanian agnostic, you wouldn't have wanted to catch me alone in a dark alley with a lot of these types of figures after most of them tried to say that the city deserved it for its "sins" and that it was "God's message" to the U.S. and to New Orleans.

-Sicarius

_____________________________

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:37:58 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Julia...

Where are Christian LEADERS invoking Christ to smote and wipe out countyies and ethnic groups?

See her quote from Randall Terry.

He is a Christian Leader.

Check out BattleCry, a Christian organization.

http://www.battlecry.com/

or

www.nowpublic.com/the_cult_of_battlecry.com

Their leader is Ron Luce.

I would be happy to provide more if you are interested, FatDaddyDom. As I stated elsewhere, what defines the struggle between Christianity and Islam are the similarities in their beliefs and their historical background, not their differences.

Sinergy

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:43:51 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Are you advocating that we give the Islamic fanatics a free pass because of the fact that there are Christian fanatics, or are you saying that they should be hated equally? I'm not precisely certain as to what your point is, here ... I know that Robertson, Buchannan, and Falwell are hated by a fairly large number of people.

This is called "building a straw man"

I quoted hatefilled sentiments from prominant and powerful Americans, and some very misguided zealots, how you can add your own agenda into that is rather amusing... and a logical fallacy in debate.

quote:

As a New Orleanian agnostic, you wouldn't have wanted to catch me alone in a dark alley with a lot of these types of figures after most of them tried to say that the city deserved it for its "sins" and that it was "God's message" to the U.S. and to New Orleans.

My point is that there are zealots everywhere. I mean look at the White House, we have a lunatic idiot that believes God told him to invade Iraq! I think we should remove the mote from our own eye before we try to take it from our neighbor's. Now I dislike fanatics of any description, but when we fear monger by letting them control the discourse, then we all lose, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Agnostic.

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:44:54 PM

Sanity

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Your "source" for all of those "quotes" is the World Socialist Website?

I'm no fan of any of those religious kooks, but in the interest of fairness, you really need to learn to source your quotes better.

The World Socialists are kooks themselves, but if Jerry Falwell had quotes supposedly said by the World Socialists on Falwell's' website I wouldn't trust that as a source either. It's like sourcing Jews for Nazi quotes, or vise-versa. Do you understand what's wrong with that?

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:47:20 PM

Sicarius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I quoted hatefilled sentiments from prominant and powerful Americans, and some very misguided zealots, how you can add your own agenda into that is rather amusing... and a logical fallacy in debate.

My agenda? I asked if you were insisting on equal condemnation or not ... you seem to be indicating that you are, at least to a certain extent. What exactly do you suppose my "agenda" is that I'm adding into things?

-Sicarius

_____________________________

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." -Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:47:32 PM

juliaoceania

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Sanity, prove the sources wrong, or can it.

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:48:53 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sicarius

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I quoted hatefilled sentiments from prominant and powerful Americans, and some very misguided zealots, how you can add your own agenda into that is rather amusing... and a logical fallacy in debate.

My agenda? I asked if you were insisting on equal condemnation or not ... you seem to be indicating that you are, at least to a certain extent. What exactly do you suppose my "agenda" is that I'm adding into things?

-Sicarius

I quoted people... now you can interpret that anyway you like... We tend to see the world the way we are... and you are showing how right those words are.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 6:49:19 PM

Sinergy

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So you are saying none of those people quoted by a socialist (your words) website actually made those statements?

Do you want to just admit that your argument is asinine, or should I go google the statements (or nexus-lexus) and find the dates, times, venue, etc., they said them in that was posted on a web site you know and trust?

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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