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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 9:31:52 PM   
domiguy


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 The KKK is a Christian organization.....I've heard that they are considered to be extreme and up until very recently I think they were up to the task at hand.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2007 9:32:37 PM >


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RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 9:40:07 PM   
selfbnd411


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quote:


I'm sorry but radical islam is FAR differnt than radical christians. I don't see  christians walking around with AK's committing genocide, because of someone is of a differnt belief


Christians committing genocide?  Ever hear of a guy named Adolf Hitler?  Germany is a Lutheran/Catholic nation.

Christians with AK-47s?  Jim Jones?  David Koresh?  Timothy McVeigh?  The Westboro Baptist Church?  The Christian Identity movement?

The point isn't that Christians are evil or Muslims are evil.  The point I always try to get at is that in black versus white, up versus down, good versus evil, I'm absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong only works in the movies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_jones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_mcveigh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_baptist

< Message edited by selfbnd411 -- 5/2/2007 9:46:27 PM >

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 9:47:44 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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Eric Robert Rudolph?

I heard the "Run Rudolph Run" t-shirts were fast movers round his neck of the woods...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to selfbnd411)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 11:42:43 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Look above to the Wikipedia source

Now I do not need to make shit up... everyone knows what freaks the Religious Right are, and if you are going to sit there and play ostrich, fine... but in my opinion that looks just plain silly. It is common knowledge that these people are loons
 

Which has precisely what to do with Islamic crazy fucker Governments calling for the death of Americans and Jews???



The US government is actually involved in killing Muslims. In their countries.

Actions speak louder than words?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/2/2007 11:53:15 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Why should I?


No one will believe you've been anywhere near a college in your life if you don't ever learn to provide better sourcing than that.


I'm lost. WHICH of the quotes juliaoceana posted was wrong? I mean, does it matter WHERE it came from if it's factually correct?



Seconded, implying Julia's quote is one of limited value because she can't source a quote correctly (according to the parameters laid out by our resident Historian and master of footnotes, Sanity) and because she's a member of the World Socialists or something (which obviously means the quote can't possibly be correct), isn't legitimate discussion.

Unless the quote can be shown to be fabricated, then the argument stands - attempting to discredit the poster lacks class.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 12:37:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You are not sending the Palestinian government $60 million. Israel is stopping all monies to the Palestinian authority. The only money getting through is to NGOs.


Perhaps.  Source?



http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1967251,00.html

Senior UN aid officials in Jerusalem said there were clear signs of a worsening economic crisis. Around two thirds of the 4 million Palestinian population were living below the poverty line and half the population were "food-insecure", meaning they could not afford the basic foods to meet dietary needs.
 
The international community, under the Quartet of the US, the UN, the EU and Russia, has also halted direct funding to the Palestinian government, saying it must recognise Israel, halt violence and accept past peace agreements. The freeze means salaries for 160,000 government workers have largely gone unpaid.
 
It is hardly surprising there is extremism in the area. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. As Karl Marx would say 'All you have to lose are your chains."

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 1:01:17 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

Seconded, implying Julia's quote is one of limited value because she can't source a quote correctly (according to the parameters laid out by our resident Historian and master of footnotes, Sanity) and because she's a member of the World Socialists or something (which obviously means the quote can't possibly be correct), isn't legitimate discussion.

Unless the quote can be shown to be fabricated, then the argument stands - attempting to discredit the poster lacks class.



I laughed my butt off after reading all the petty-ass bickering in this thread.


 - R



PS - Sanity doesn't believe-in or like my quotes, either.  ; }


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"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 3:21:04 AM   
mons


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greetings

this does not shock me. why becasue we have our very own terroristor who are nazis . who would kill anyone who is of color or a different relgioln. this is here in the good old united states. they do not find they hate for others many years ago they would hang people. they had done it couple or several times and they could care less. so when i see a foreign say this i understand angry and feel so sad. but please post some of the real thing here too. what my mother and father would tell me and what they would not say i can not imagine the terror they felt when in the south and yes the north too the terror of race riot. terror is really where sad but true but remember someone of us have more terror then others the jews poeple i think had the most alone side with the blacks and it stil going on so there it is

mons

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 4:37:30 AM   
losttreasure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My point is that we cannot dismiss an entire group of people because a few of them are assholes


*blinks*  Really? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Now I do not need to make shit up... everyone knows what freaks the Religious Right are, and if you are going to sit there and play ostrich, fine... but in my opinion that looks just plain silly. It is common knowledge that these people are loons


I'm sure then that you really meant in this statement that it is Randall Terry, Pat Buchanan and Jerry Falwell who are freaks and loons, and not the Religious Right. 

How silly of you. 




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Just because it isn't "all about me", doesn't make it "all about you".

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 4:53:50 AM   
losttreasure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

I'm sorry but radical islam is FAR differnt than radical christians. I don't see  christians walking around with AK's committing genocide, because of someone is of a differnt belief


Casie... for some reason the secular left has fallen head over heels in love with the idea of women bearing burka's and homsexuality as a capital crime.

I am still waiting for a quote of any Christian leader invoking Christ to smote all non believers.

Why does the left love Islam so?



Guess you are too busy trashing the Left to go look at the web site I posted, so I will post it again.

www.battlecry.com


It would appear that you were too busy to look at the site.  Would you care to point out exactly where it either advocates or even remotely suggests that anyone invoke Christ to smite nonbelievers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I have done all I can, Im afraid.  One can lead another to knowledge but cannot make them think.


I wouldn't give up my day job just yet, if I were you. 





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Just because it isn't "all about me", doesn't make it "all about you".

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 5:22:54 AM   
LadyEllen


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In my opinion, its not Jews or Americans (by which I think Christians is meant) or Muslims that are the problem.

The problem derives from the totalitarian natures of their religions and the consequent and inevitable conclusion they must reach, that anyone not of them is evil and being evil must be destroyed, and in destroying evil they show their particular aspect of the one God they all worship, how dedicated they are. We can be sure of Bush's Christian credentials by way of his own use of the same sort of language in relation to the "war on terror".

The problem for totalitarianism, is that people being people, we are all different from one another. Whilst we share commonalities that might cause us to come together as one, we also tend to divide into smaller groups within the whole according to shared ideas and goals. But even in the smallest and most closely allied of such subgroups, we find the members to differ amongst themselves - observe the squabbling in churches, clubs, LGBT groups, political parties et al. Totalitarian approaches rarely work for this reason, although most totalitarian approaches find value in such dissent by way of scapegoating the dissenters for their own failings.

The other problem for totalitarian approaches derives from the same factor of the variability of people. Totalitarianism proposes that the world is of a single nature and that there is only one single solution for any problem - that solution being utter adherence to the system of totalitarian organisation in place, and any problem having origin from failure to so comply. Whilst fear of the system may produce compliance in a population, we have only to look at the opinions of the inhabitants of former eastern bloc countries to realise that such compliance was always under quiet protest and that regardless of such imposition they tried to express their own natures, interests and aims, and to look at those countries now, having been freed from the fear of their former systems, where diversity is being acknowledged as the natural human condition.

In my opinion, the only way to solve the problem of nazi totalitarianism was to destroy it. The only way to solve the problem of communist totalitarianism was to destroy it. What that says about the means of solving the problem of totalitarian religions can be inferred perhaps, though it must be borne in mind that it is the systems that warrants such solution, not the people finding themselves under such a system, unless they are so closely identified with the system as its drivers and controllers and beneficiaries that they too must be destroyed - Hitler and his circle as an example.

Now I shall be flamed for saying that Christianity must be destroyed I expect, but such anger is unjustified as we are not necessarily discussing violent means to destroy it, even though it alike with its cousin Islam, owes its place in the world to violence. Far more potent means lie in the education of the masses, not only the facts but just as importantly the ability to reason and thereby realise that for all the goodness preached and exemplified by Jesus, and for all the good that Christians have done and do, Christianity nevertheless represents a totalitarian worldview which is contrary not only to the concept of personal freedom but also contrary to our nature as human beings in an ever more complex world that I hope has outgrown such totalitarianism.



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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 5:27:32 AM   
farglebargle


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"Now I shall be flamed for saying that Christianity must be destroyed I expect, but such anger is unjustified as we are not necessarily discussing violent means to destroy it, even though it alike with its cousin Islam, owes its place in the world to violence."

I believe it is less the Religion, and more the Organization which causes the problem.

The solution? ZERO Government recognition of Churches, Shuls, Mosques, etc.

SURPRISE, you're paying property taxes like EVERYONE ELSE ( we call that Equal Protection. If *I* gotta pay taxes, EVERYONE gotta pay taxes... )

At that point a great deal of the FINANCIAL INCENTIVE in having an Organization disappears, and I figure the problem largely solves itself. Or not, but at least we got all the real-estate back on the tax rolls.






_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 6:16:17 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

It seems that the lies and misrepresentations of politicians in the West, particularly the US, have the majority of us believing that politicians and political leaders in the Muslim world also have no integrity behind their words.

I believe that Sheik Ahmad Bahr, and Iranian President are being truthful in stating their goals. The activity of the Sheik's group and the Iranian President suggest they are not speaking rhetorically. I don't hope for their success but I respect their commitment and their plan talk. The West choses not to believe them; ignoring or rationalizing that their words should not be taken as a serious threat.

I can only hope that one of the people running for President emerges to speak as plainly and with the same integrity of these men. Regardless of the political party or basic philosophical disparity; for leadership ability alone they have a good chance of getting my vote. We are a nation desperate for a leader.

ummmmm.... Isn't that the way Adolf Hitler was elected?


i would agree with this, including the part about hitler.  however they have a ligitmate gripe.  to use a humorous example, it would be no differrent than if a group of ET's came down and decided to plant their butts and occupy florida.

It is an occupation, we would be pissed.  we would want them off, but those et's have bigger weapons than we do.  it would piss us off to no end that they violated our sovereignty and planted their asses on our ground taking it away from us.

The rule is over there that once land has been claimed it is theirs forever throught generations unless sold to another.

No such sale took place.  They unfortunately have a legitimate right by their way of life, that dates back centuries, to lay claim to that land and regain occupation.  people cannot get it straight that we are the invaders and if the situation were reversed we would bew chanting death to ET's!


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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 6:23:59 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

that anyone not of them is evil and being evil must be destroyed, and in destroying evil they show their particular aspect of the one God they all worship, how dedicated they are. We can be sure of Bush's Christian credentials by way of his own use of the same sort of language in relation to the "war on terror".


actually that is not true LE.

If you were a practicing satanist who felt all evil should be wiped out then the people you would target would be christianity and any "God/god" that did not fit into the same defintion as the one you would believe.  So evil as it is has many faces.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 6:31:56 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

i would agree with this, including the part about hitler.  however they have a ligitmate gripe.


Real,
Thanks for bringing the focus back on point. Elected leaders with governmental power make decisions that have impact on a global scale.

I agree they have a legitimate gripe. Historically the middle east was exploited by every global power. Now they have power from the money that the west's addiction to oil has given them. The west also has a legitimate gripe. How do you negotiate with a people whose leaders' basic platform calls for killing "all Jews and Americans"?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 6:33:07 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

that anyone not of them is evil and being evil must be destroyed, and in destroying evil they show their particular aspect of the one God they all worship, how dedicated they are. We can be sure of Bush's Christian credentials by way of his own use of the same sort of language in relation to the "war on terror".


actually that is not true LE.

If you were a practicing satanist who felt all evil should be wiped out then the people you would target would be christianity and any "God/god" that did not fit into the same defintion as the one you would believe.  So evil as it is has many faces.



I think youre missing the point. The flavour of approach might be different in each case, but totalitarian thinking is the same whatever.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 6:39:20 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

How do you negotiate with a people whose leaders' basic platform calls for killing "all Jews and Americans"?


When people have a future and something worthwhile to lose they will stop listening to extremists. At the moment the west justifies the words of the extremists because the west has proved hypocritical and exploitative of the people we want to be civilized, as though we are civilized ourselves.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 7:05:18 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The west also has a legitimate gripe. How do you negotiate with a people whose leaders' basic platform calls for killing "all Jews and Americans"?


yah.... there is the problem. 

This imo was by design.

i do not agree that we have a legitimate "gripe" as it were since we knew that is the brits knew as well that these people would fight forver as it is a matter of history among their culture.

Its not like these people did not fight from day 1 to get the occupation out.

They "never" acqueicsed and they never backed off their claim to that land so we imo do not have a legitimate "gripe" but a problem of our own making that we continue to feed.

i believe this was by design as it gives us the "appearance" of a legitimate purpose on a side of the world we otherwise would not belong.   It basically keeps us entrenched in the ME and oil drives this entrenchment.

You may havc noticed how hard i am pushing for among other things, people to seriously invest some time getting into hydrogen technology.

That is the best way to at least reduce the tensions over there as there would be no major "dependency" on the oil god any longer.

The problem with that is however since we still use it for plastics etc i doubt even hydrogen would solve the problem and resolve the dispute but at least oil would be put on the back burner for as long as it is there at a buck a barrel to the producers it will always be a commoddity worth paying for with war.

Combine that with gov and oil working hand in hand.

The feds are set up according to our constitution to protect us corporations from attack, both here and abroad and unfortunately that is another part of our constitution that got re-interpreted from a defensive position to imperialist position.

It is in our best interest as far as oil is concerned to stay there to keep the oil machine lubed no pun intended. 

i think hydrogen would help the situation but i do not think it will ever go away.

There is so much water over the bridge now on that i really do not know a good solution beyond packing them all up and moving them to another place on the planet.  To many atrocities have taken place and we are seen as a minimum supporting them and as a maximun santioning them.

Over there, they assume its a conspiracy first till proven innocent when dealing with their governments exactly the opposite as we are here.  unfortunately they are more correct than we are as a result.

move them to another place on the planet and the chanting will stop.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 7:07:19 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

that anyone not of them is evil and being evil must be destroyed, and in destroying evil they show their particular aspect of the one God they all worship, how dedicated they are. We can be sure of Bush's Christian credentials by way of his own use of the same sort of language in relation to the "war on terror".


actually that is not true LE.

If you were a practicing satanist who felt all evil should be wiped out then the people you would target would be christianity and any "God/god" that did not fit into the same defintion as the one you would believe.  So evil as it is has many faces.



I think youre missing the point. The flavour of approach might be different in each case, but totalitarian thinking is the same whatever.

E


my bad, i guess i should have read more posts lol


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: "... kill Jews and Americans "to the very... - 5/3/2007 7:10:59 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

How do you negotiate with a people whose leaders' basic platform calls for killing "all Jews and Americans"?


When people have a future and something worthwhile to lose they will stop listening to extremists. At the moment the west justifies the words of the extremists because the west has proved hypocritical and exploitative of the people we want to be civilized, as though we are civilized ourselves.


i agree with this too...

bring them out of poverty would help but they still have 5000 years of serioulsy engrained culture to over come to forgive and forget.   Might work but what do you do with a land of sand and increasing population to bring them out of poverty?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 120
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