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RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 11:55:45 AM

Posts: 102
Joined: 3/20/2007
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quote:

Here's a point where it can sound like there's a contradiction. It sounds like you're saying that, should yours refuse you, you would both release and divorce her; however, it also sounds like you're saying it would be your own fault. Could you elaborate?

I have complete and total control in our relationship; if she is disobeying me continually and willfully; I will END the relationship. However, I must stop and consider WHY she is doing this. If I can not find the answer, then the fault of failure falls to me because I somehow missed somethng somewhere of great importance. I failed to control my own property. I failed to recognize that we were incompatible. I failed to correct things before they got too far.

I failed to Master her.

Live well

Alex

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(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 12:01:45 PM

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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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Personally I do not understand small baby goats, and that isn't what we were speaking about, so I cannot realistically discuss a dynamic that is involved with livestock, let alone that they may attend a human school.

I thought we were speaking about children. So I will continue to answer from that standpoint.

Depends on the dynamic involved.

If the mother is the dominant - there isnt an issue is there? (OK - so I am being a little picky there).

If the mother is the slave, then the situation will already have been discussed with the dominant in advance (obviously not the situation - but the decisions on how to handle any possible outcomes will already be understood in a healthy MS dynamic).

In a healthy family environment, the child already understands where the land lies(as it were). In a traditional family set up, or a methodist one, or where there is head of the household, the child is raised to know where the hieracy lies. That isn't restricted to a MS environment only - which is why the point you are trying to make doesn't really make any sense. In a healthy MS relationship, if a Master takes responsibilty, and the slave deferes that to him, there is already an understanding. Your basic premise is no different to the stupid post (and yes they are ridiculous) of saying that 'If the master says cut off your leg and your a no limits slave, then you have to do it. Thats just bull in a healthy MS relationship that just doesnt happen. Sure it happens in bizarro world with abusive types - but what we are hopefully and specifically discussing is a healthy TPE or MS relationship - not the huge end of the extreme section of wiitwd.

But - you have to also remember that the slave has submitted to the Master - NOT the children involved. They are simply raised to understand the dynamic... they are involved, but not a part. And a mentally stable and healthy Master would not put children at risk in any way whatsoever. I know of people whos' Masters did not allow the children to come with them, because that was what was right for the child and the mother. Or to have terminations. Who are we to say that is was wrong? Do we understand the entire situation - no.

You are talking about extremes that can happen, but in - and I repeat - a healthy and productive relationship - it is what is in the best interests of those concerned. Whether you agree with it or not is moot because you have no understanding of what is involved.

quote:

The OPs model removes a slaves responsibility towards all others and places it solely upon himself.

Then that is what they have decided. Cool for them and that family. And any healthy relationship would have explained it to their children too - which people often fail and are often too scared to even suggest. Some people feel much safer when they hide and blinker their children from what life is and what people are actually capable of. If children can learn off the T.V and news what a strip club is, what is wrong with them knowing what a munch involves?

You know it is funny, but some parents actually talk to their children - strange and shocking notion huh?

That some actually know what the difference is between a muslim, and a radical muslim.

Know what the difference between a christian and a fundemental christian is.

And that being gay, isnt a strange and abnormal thing.

Or that there are these people who exist who identify themselves as Dominants.

And that one of my best friends is a switch and bi and that they can love both men and women.

They know what being mongamous means and poly.

Wow.

Fancy that?

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 5/8/2007 12:02:21 PM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 12:20:32 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

2.)I would argue that a pure slave, assuming she was without such factors at the time of collaring, would not gain disobidient factors under the thoughtful guidance of a Master.

Bad moods happen. Bad days happen. There are things that are beyond our own scope and ability to control. They all contribute to instances where disobedience can and will happen. Willfully, and blatantly. How you handle these instances will decide how often they will happen.

Then is this to say that bad moods or unhappy days are valid grounds for a slave to disobey?

Note: (3) carried the same counter arguement, just addressing it in the first instance here in (2).

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

4.)I would sum these up in that, should Master have conducted due process in consideration before collaring and acted thoughtfully since, it is most likely disobidient elements of a slave's personality existed at the time of collaring and were misrepresented by the slave.

I disagree. Melissa and I talked at great length about what I expected from her in our relationship. I know she was fully truthfull in examining all angles before agreeing to become mine. Yet, there have been instances where she has deliberatly defied me. Not because she was not truthful; but because the learning process opens up whole new avenues, and she discovered something along the way that was unpleasant to her.

I'd ask you elaborate; how would deliberate defiance been conducted if she has agreed to absolute submission? (I'm not able to really respond to this with my lack of understanding of the cited situation.)

You know, I tend to perfer using hypotheticals since using them can avoid prying into one's personal life too much and allow for more contrieved ends. Still, as you've expressed your comfort with using your relationship as a basis for reference, I would like to ask you to give a general overview of the arrangement you have with yours and the motivations she's cited in her submission to you, if you're still comfortable with using your own relationship here. If not, I'd perfectly understand a perference for a less personally-exposing debate, as this would also be my perference in most cases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaunty1

quote:

5.)I would continue that a collaring made under the influence of willful deception is invalid.

Under willful deception; I would agree.

From this, it seems you're making the argument that a slave can willfully fail her role of submission despite honesty and sincerity. If this is accurate, why do you believe this might be done?

Edit: My next response will likely be rather delayed. Life's going to pull me away from the board for a while. I wish you well.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/8/2007 12:22:31 PM >

(in reply to jaunty1)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 12:58:04 PM

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Personally I do not understand small baby goats, and that isn't what we were speaking about, so I cannot realistically discuss a dynamic that is involved with livestock, let alone that they may attend a human school.

I thought we were speaking about children. So I will continue to answer from that standpoint.

Depends on the dynamic involved.
If the mother is the dominant - there isnt an issue is there? (OK - so I am being a little picky there).
If the mother is the slave, then the situation will already have been discussed with the dominant in advance (obviously not the situation - but the decisions on how to handle any possible outcomes will already be understood in a healthy MS dynamic).

In a healthy family environment, the child already understands where the land lies(as it were). In a traditional family set up, or a methodist one, or where there is head of the household, the child is raised to know where the hieracy lies. That isn't restricted to a MS environment only - which is why the point you are trying to make doesn't really make any sense. In a healthy MS relationship, if a Master takes responsibilty, and the slave deferes that to him, there is already an understanding. Your basic premise is no different to the stupid post (and yes they are ridiculous) of saying that 'If the master says cut off your leg and your a no limits slave, then you have to do it. Thats just bull in a healthy MS relationship that just doesnt happen. Sure it happens in bizarro world with abusive types - but what we are hopefully and specifically discussing is a healthy TPE or MS relationship - not the huge end of the extreme section of wiitwd.

But - you have to also remember that the slave has submitted to the Master - NOT the children involved. They are simply raised to understand the dynamic... they are involved, but not a part. And a mentally stable and healthy Master would not put children at risk in any way whatsoever. I know of people whos' Masters did not allow the children to come with them, because that was what was right for the child and the mother. Or to have terminations. Who are we to say that is was wrong? Do we understand the entire situation - no.

You are talking about extremes that can happen, but in - and I repeat - a healthy and productive relationship - it is what is in the best interests of those concerned. Whether you agree with it or not is moot because you have no understanding of what is involved.
quote:

The OPs model removes a slaves responsibility towards all others and places it solely upon himself.

Then that is what they have decided. Cool for them and that family. And any healthy relationship would have explained it to their children too - which people often fail and are often too scared to even suggest. Some people feel much safer when they hide and blinker their children from what life is and what people are actually capable of. If children can learn off the T.V and news what a strip club is, what is wrong with them knowing what a munch involves?

You know it is funny, but some parents actually talk to their children - strange and shocking notion huh?
That some actually know what the difference is between a muslim, and a radical muslim.
Know what the difference between a christian and a fundemental christian is.
And that being gay, isnt a strange and abnormal thing.
Or that there are these people who exist who identify themselves as Dominants.
And that one of my best friends is a switch and bi and that they can love both men and women.
They know what being mongamous means and poly.

Wow.
Fancy that?

Peace and Rapture

I totally agree with you on this 100% in terms of my own personal views. Now, I was posing the question to the OP and how this fits into his own Models and Constructs.   The issue being in regards to idealisms being presented. My questioning was in regards to how the OP sees this working within the constructs of his own M/s model. You seem to have the impression I have my head shoved up my ass in regards to children and relationship dynamics.

Now I must rant here... Two relationships with multiple children involved.  Three children in one, and four in another.  One is still living at home because she is still in high school, the other ones have since graduated and are in college or have completed college now. High Grade point averages, scholarships and doing great things. There was a lot of positive reinforcement and encouragement and building of self esteem and self awareness that went into these children. There was a lot of work put into turning some bad things around in their lives and making it better. One of the strong points was stressing for them to take responsibility for themselves and in believing in themselves and not to become discourage at set backs or failures or social click bullshit. I find myself simply wanting to rant...

Now there are a lot of parents that don't put a lot of thought and effort into parenting, their kids wind up on drugs in trouble with the law and pregant at an early age and the list of horror stories goes on and on.   One decision I made for the better of everybody was to move 60 miles away out of a city and change the environment the children were in. Jennifer to this day tells me it was the best thing ever for her kids. Because many of their friends they had before the move are now on drugs, school dropouts, got pregant before finishing school and etc..   I will rant about how positive reinforcement works wonders compared to negative reinforcement it's not even funny. In terms of sexuality and peoples lifestyle choices we were open in explaining and talking about these things with them.   Hell, they do see this on TV, the internet and have friends that talk about it. Hell even topics such as education, sucide, death, drugs, rape, drinking and religion was talked about as well.

Children are in important issue for any relationship period where they are involved. daniL was the one that actually brought this up into the thread before me, I felt it was worthy enough to explore under the OP M/s dynamics.   What's the mortal sin in asking the OP questions for clarification and to expand upon the model here?   You might not feel this was not a worthy question, however I did and daniL did... I suspect others wonder about this as well.   Just becuase you think it's a stupid question.. does not mean I felt it was a stupid question.   In terms of asking Questions or debating issues, the only stupid question is one that is not asked.    So you can get bent out of shape at my lines of questioning or where I might even challenge the OPs model here and there.   Again I stress I felt it was worthy enough to explore under the OP M/s dynamics.

By the way the use of the word "kids" to refer to children is acceptable (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kids). However the hell you got the impression I was talking about baby goats is just laughable. Kids, Kids, Kids... yes I am talking about children and I believe most people reading this thread totally understand I was talking about children and not goats and that I was not somehow magically misusing the word.   I'll think you find the meaning of kids up to date in most modern dictionaries now days.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 1:32:48 PM

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quote:

My questioning was in regards to how the OP sees this working within the constructs of his own M/s model. You seem to have the impression I have my head shoved up my ass in regards to children and relationship dynamics

Well, you asked me (as you posted to me) about the dynamic and my (directly) opinon... so I answered. I cannot answer for CL, nor would I want to. I just responded as you asked me after I interjected with my opinion. You could have simply ignored me. You chose to ask me specifically and I replied. I don't think you have your head anywhere than on your neck - I have not other impression of you for you are nothing more to me than words upon a screen I am responding to. If you take issue with that - then thats your 'responsibilty'.

quote:

What's the mortal sin in asking the OP questions for clarification and to expand upon the model here? You might not feel this was not a worthy question, however I did and daniL did... I suspect others wonder about this as well. Just becuase you think it's a stupid question.. does not mean I felt it was a stupid question. In terms of asking Questions or debating issues, the only stupid question is one that is not asked.

Show me where I said it was a stupid question? Do not put words in someones mouth. I said it was a moot point, because you can take any dynamic - gay/MS/christian blah and say/ask exactly the same thing and get different answers. I never said you couldnt ask it. I never said it was a sin - so please dont be so naive as to try and make it seem as though I did - people can read and dont need you making false claims unless you want to simple catch someone who hasnt bothered reading the whole thread. Because it depends entirely on the individuals involved. Of course CL can give you his POV, but another MS situation it is entirely different and not the only one way, which is the impression some people have as regards to what you are writing.

And if you want to debate stupid questions, there are plenty. One of them being 'Is there such a thing as a stupid question'.

quote:

By the way the use of the word "kids" to refer to children is acceptable (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kids). However the hell you got the impression I was talking about baby goats is just laughable. Kids, Kids, Kids... yes I am talking about children and I believe most people reading this thread totally understand I was talking about children and not goats and that I was not somehow magically misusing the word. I'll think you find the meaning of kids up to date in most modern dictionaries now days.

I am glad you found it laughable, as it was supposed to be, ah - the tast of irony... But obviously your perception was I was being completely serious and have reacted in negative way. If it was serious, you have just shown very little respect for people who do find the word offensive, which really just goes to show how little respect you have for people who do not agree with you.

A helpful suggestion is to try to not see everything as an attack. The written word is an unforgiving medium so it is helpful to lighten up and not see people who do not agree with you, not as enemies, but as someone you can simply debate with and not sink so low as to start misrepresenting their words and ridiculing them for whatever reason just to make yourself look stronger. It just disrespects yourself in the long run.

And then - I am not perfect either...

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 1:33:22 PM

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Joined: 3/20/2007
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quote:

Then is this to say that bad moods or unhappy days are valid grounds for a slave to disobey?

Note: (3) carried the same counter arguement, just addressing it in the first instance here in (2).

My response was in regards to your statement that a slave who enters a relationship, without deceit, would never disobey. Your exact words were

quote:

2.)I would argue that a pure slave, assuming she was without such factors at the time of collaring, would not gain disobidient factors under the thoughtful guidance of a Master.

You have to think outside the box here. Even I know for a fact that bad moods, and just general unhappy days will affect the mood of my girl. If she is disobeying in these instances then I want to know why. Perhaps all she needs is to go outside and scream a bit. Perhaps she needs to release some pent up emotion that she has otherwise not been able to. Because I want this relationship to work; because I have invested alot into this relationship; because I care about her well-being...

They are valid in that she is an emotional being; she reacts to others, and she is telling me that SOMETHING IS WRONG. My responsibility then is to find out what that something is. What is discovered will determine the next step in the relationship.

quote:

I'd ask you elaborate; how would deliberate defiance been conducted if she has agreed to absolute submission? (I'm not able to really respond to this with my lack of understanding of the cited situation.)

Both melissa and I are still young. When I met her, she had no idea what a kajira was or what consentual slavery was. Yet, she came into this relationship knowing EXACTLY what I expected. As we both have matured and gotten older, we have both changed. In some areas we have grown, in others we have receded. The possibility for growth is not only on the side of the property; the owner grows also. Learns new things, accepts new ways, adapts to the changes.

What she agreed to at the beginning of the relationship has changed also. It has evolved, grown, expanded. Some things she was hesitant about, she no longer thinks twice about. Other things that she readily agreed to, she has found harder to accomplish. There have been times that she has, without thougtht, blurted out NO to me.

This does not mean that she lied to me at the beginning of the relationship; or that she was deliberatly holding things back. It means that despite her commitment to me and this way of life; there will always be things that she fights against. It is her nature. It is something that I accept when I took her as my own.

Absolute obedience does not require non thought. It requires thinking about what you have been asked, weighing it in your own mind, discussing it with the owner if you have misgivings; and then carrying out the order in spite of your own feelings on the matter.

quote:

Still, as you've expressed your comfort with using your relationship as a basis for reference, I would like to ask you to give a general overview of the arrangement you have with yours and the motivations she's cited in her submission to you, if you're still comfortable with using your own relationship here

I will respond to this with more depth when I have better use of my time to do so.

Live well

Alex

_____________________________

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 1:44:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

You're basing your entire argument around that I'm delusion about my own relationship and that the dynamic just can't work for unstated reasons.

I'm basing my opinions on you based on the inconsintencies in the things you say.

I just question a lot of things I read on this board.

I question the levels of self control and discipline all these Doms preach when I know full well the challenges of emotional control and how tempting it is to let things slide.

I question how deep exactly the bond of trust and loyalty all these relationships claim to have actually is.

I question any relationship that is as easy as you depicted it in your post.

quote:

I'm sorry, Rabbit, but you're becoming argumenative and losing touch with anything outside of that.

You should reread my post. Most of it was presenting how flawed the premise is of claiming a "true" linear model is so applicable to a non linear concept like human being relationships.

But none the less its a nice tactic to avoid dealing with the inconstinecies I've presented in your facts about your life.

quote:

As for the opinions of others, a fair number of venerable posters live this dynamic have offered support on the issue. You are going to mark them up, yet claim.. who is the experienced person knocking it?.. you?.. are more certain than them on something you haven't experienced..?

Yeah, people make mistake. People disobey. It's a lot of work to maintain a relationship. At least, when you're like this when something works.

I could say your delusional about my experience level since you dont know jack about my experience with relationships, whether egalatarian or power based or my life experiences and the lessons taught from it.

I, however, am not making ego driven claims to years of experience that mostly equate to time twiddling thumbs.

Like all the other things that I question...I always question how much of the time in "X number of years of experience in the lifestyle" was actually spent doing lifestyle related things.

Further more, I am making my opinions based on my awareness of the handicaps of lack of experience

I imagine I could order my slave to get a cup of coffee and give me a blowjob and then when she instantly obeys, think to myself "Wow...look how obedient and loyal she is! This is great! This is so easy!"

I imagine that if I had a relationship that hadnt stood the trials of life and had the romantic ideals I was claiming trully tested, I could say how easy the dynamic was and without stress or drama.

I often wonder....when I order my slave to sell her car, quit her job, and move in with me, thus becomming dependent on me and my responsibility towards her, how "intense" her loyalty to me will be...

I wonder...when I order my slave to do something that will trully cause a life altering sacrifice, but in turn cause me tremendous gain, if she wont ever disobey me...

I wonder...when I order my slave to do something that ultimately leads to her facing jail time in prison, how strong my ideal of "taking all responsibility for my slave" would be...

I wonder...when a slave and I have lived together in close proximitiy for many years and all our annoying little personal habits have gotten to us, how little strain or drama there will be...

I wonder...if I were to order a slave to do something she trully felt was wrong, perhaps in the context of her personal family, and I wont change my decision, how non rebellious she would be...

I wonder if you were to trully have your convictions that you have listed here as part of your dynamic tested, how much you would actually follow the behaviors in your own model.

I am aware enough that I have a lot to learn and discover regarding myself.

And personally, until I have had a long term relationship that has expanded many years and had its convictions really put to the test, you wont see me here making any claims or preaching about "incredible loyalty, unquestioning obedience, and no resistance to one's will."

And its from this understanding that I feal quite comfortable in questioning you.

And seems I have read more than a few posts where people were questioning your own merits as well.

quote:

I'm happy in my relationship. Frankly, you're a bastard for claiming it's something else based solely on your own hope that it is.

I didnt claim it wasnt. I said I dont personally beleive it is.

Thats the conadrum we face when we're two completely anonymous people who only know as much about the other as he writes in his own box.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/8/2007 2:27:30 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 1:49:34 PM

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quote:

She has only one sibling she's fond of, a younger brother I allow her to visit.

Well ... I was interested in reading more of what your dynamic is and even understood it till this. You allow her to see her brother? I am glad Master is not the kind that would try to keep me from my family.
I wish you well and your slave lots of luck

< Message edited by OnlyHis -- 5/8/2007 1:50:22 PM >

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 1:52:18 PM

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That last reply covered an instance I was headed towards as well but had not fully formed how to express.

Bottom line is people grow, expectations change, obsticals are encountered, there are nmerous ways a person can honestly agree to do X and then find themseves unable to comply at some future date.
Agree to kneel every time I enter a room within seconds of seein me, fast forward 15 years and knees become far less supple and dropping down and rising becomes much more of a chore than either party thought about 15 years ago.

The idea that bad moods and PMS can certainly make obedience much more difficult and sometimes more difficult than the person is capable of at the given moment, is certainly more realistic in long term relationships than expecting that those emotions will never be a cause for disobedience. (Note I differenciate between a reason and an excuse, a reason explains the why an excuse explains the reason and makes the case for non-compliance self evident.
You told me to jump off the roof
Reason Fear overcame the level of trust (explains the reason)
Excuse There was a guard rail 12 ft high that I was incapable of getting over because I already had two broken legs from the last roof you ordered me to jump from. LOL

(in reply to jaunty1)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 2:22:04 PM

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

That last reply covered an instance I was headed towards as well but had not fully formed how to express.

Bottom line is people grow, expectations change, obsticals are encountered, there are nmerous ways a person can honestly agree to do X and then find themseves unable to comply at some future date.
Agree to kneel every time I enter a room within seconds of seein me, fast forward 15 years and knees become far less supple and dropping down and rising becomes much more of a chore than either party thought about 15 years ago.

The idea that bad moods and PMS can certainly make obedience much more difficult and sometimes more difficult than the person is capable of at the given moment, is certainly more realistic in long term relationships than expecting that those emotions will never be a cause for disobedience. (Note I differenciate between a reason and an excuse, a reason explains the why an excuse explains the reason and makes the case for non-compliance self evident.
You told me to jump off the roof
Reason Fear overcame the level of trust (explains the reason)
Excuse There was a guard rail 12 ft high that I was incapable of getting over because I already had two broken legs from the last roof you ordered me to jump from. LOL

I agree completely Archer. This is largely the point behind several of my posts.

And PMS and its effect on obedience is something I am quite familiar with from personal experience. =)

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Archer)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 3:51:35 PM

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Many people have romantic ideals about something at a point in time. There is a certain pure beauty to a romantic idealization, it's sort of magic dream we hold onto for awhile. Harsh Reality has a way of fucking up the beauty and magic of it all. In time with enough harsh reality we shed our illusions or beliefs in romantic idealizations.   We become more cynical, less trusting, less believing and the magic fades, the dream fades along with the pure beauty.

The OP has taken some time, engery and some thought to start to develop a M/s model. At least he is ambitious enough to sink his teeth into this process.  I am certain there are many 20 year olds asking the proverbial "How do I become a master" question. I thing is that I don't know of many people actually trying to develop their own M/s model. Sure there is "Old Guard" and "Gorean" and some other models out there.   At least the OP has opted to create one himself.   I have to give him credit for this, no matter the potenial flaws or flaws that can be found at this early stage.

He's 20 and in time and with work, his model will evol to accomodate the "life comes at you fast" curve balls. I'm certain he will try to follow or adhere to romantic idealisms he's established.   Hell, when you look at it Gorean lifestyle in itself has a sort of romantic idealism appeal.   I'm certain this model was not developed tried and tested blue overnight either.

This thread has become rather heated, and this is natural when somebody poses a challenging view or line of thinking that is not within the norm.   There has been a lot of fault or flaw finding going on, this is good. It challenges the OP to a new level of thinking.   The thing is the OP in the process of creating his M/s model is actually fucking with other peoples M/s models and established lines of thinking.

But what better way to start out with something then to have it begin with a Romantic Idealization. So what if he can't adhere to the idealization 100% of the time under all situations. Hell at least it's a goal or direction to shoot for. Let's say he it only works 80% or 75% of the time.   To live life being 75% near your full idealization is an accomplishment in itself.

I am like many on the message board, I am concern over things that I see as potential flaws.. or see a few flaws actually. So every so often something screws with the System or general model that is flawed.. the important thing is do you toss out the model and give up the Romantic dreams and idealizations or not.   Hell, there are a lot of things flawed in society itself, politics, religions, businesses...   I don't see flaws stopping any of these things from going on and on and on.

One thing is for certain, the OP will see just how far he can push this Romantic idealization, perhaps others will join him. He mention somewhere about writting a book or something. Hell, how many people have the aspiration to write a book, let alone take time to devote to trying to form a M/s model.   Sink or Swim one thing for certain the OP is doing something a little out of the ordinary.

Here's a question for everydbody! Dispite any flaws precieved or real in his model. What are the Greatest Strengths in his model.   What do you find the most attractive about this and how it can benifit both Master and a slave.
Just a question for some thought...

(in reply to jaunty1)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 4:43:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnlyHis

quote:

She has only one sibling she's fond of, a younger brother I allow her to visit.

Well ... I was interested in reading more of what your dynamic is and even understood it till this. You allow her to see her brother? I am glad Master is not the kind that would try to keep me from my family.
I wish you well and your slave lots of luck

Keeping me from my family would just have me walking out the door not only is that not something I find exeptable it is a red flag that there may be abuse in the wing....( I dont know who you where quoteing as you choped the quote out and couldnt find the original post of it, so I dont know if it was the OP but that doesnt matter I think it is a bad sighn if anyone tells you not to see your family)

Oh and I find it funny he gets all pissy when Rabbit calls him boy thumping his chest saying "Im a man"
but he is the same "man" that called I beleave it was LA girl in the begining of the thread.. she is 7 years his Sr and he called her girl I just find that funny!!! I think it also shows his level of miturity.. just my thought!!

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/8/2007 4:44:39 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to OnlyHis)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 4:54:50 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Such a little troll, ms.

It's "thumping (my) chest" when I correct rabbit, but it's nothing at all when LA corrected me? Or that I had the decency to apologize for the mistake? Sheesh. Grow up.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 4:56:49 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OnlyHis

quote:

She has only one sibling she's fond of, a younger brother I allow her to visit.

Well ... I was interested in reading more of what your dynamic is and even understood it till this. You allow her to see her brother? I am glad Master is not the kind that would try to keep me from my family.
I wish you well and your slave lots of luck

You phrase this in such a way that it makes it sound like I don't let her see her family..? When the statement said I do..?

(in reply to OnlyHis)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 5:29:48 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Cite an inconsistency or ask a question, though I'm not aware of any I haven't answered.

I did not say you had no experience, Rabbit. I'm not as foolhardy as you in making such an accusation. I did imply, though, that those in their 40's in the lifestyle for more you are more experienced sources, and that you have contradicted them in sentiment.

I would ask, in your questions, why, if your slave has annoying little habits, have you not corrected them?

How is it you are uncertain as to her limits? Is it that you don't have enough experience, or simply don't want to confront the answer honesty, hoping time will make it more desirable?

Why have you not confronted the hard questions and gauged where it stood? Stared into her eyes and asked her the hard questions in the most sober of times?

How many times have you taken her out to that beautiful grassy field just outside that everyone neglects on a cool, overcast day with a gentle breeze, stared up at the passing cloud formations, and talked about life for hours?

How many times have you engaged her in debate, questioning her fiercily? How many sleeepless nights debating beliefs, convictions, philosophies, feelings?

How many times have you taken her into a class or work, just to have her there to see what you do, despite her getting in the way of everything?

How many empty days have you sent her off, to be alone yourself, to question yourself, searching fiercily for your own truth?

I wonder, how many times is it that you have traveled a hard route, alone and against social forces, to make something you believe in happen?

How many times have you stopped to consider just how fucking stupid you are and let go of your notions of what is?

When have you let go of your comforts? The superstitious beliefs that give us hope in exchange for agreeing to forego the truth?

How many times have you looked at your love and known that you weren't living your truth with her?

I know of world-weariness.. the hardships that come as the emotion of love diminishes and the commitment becomes prodominant. I know of the hardships and trials by which you come to understand yourself and your mate more over the years. And I know of all the honest questions you should've asked yourself before all of it, that the world forced you to stop denying.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 5:56:18 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Such a little troll, ms.

It's "thumping (my) chest" when I correct rabbit, but it's nothing at all when LA corrected me? Or that I had the decency to apologize for the mistake? Sheesh. Grow up.

Im not beeing a troll.. funny how you call me a troll but I havent been the one calling names here!!!
I see a difference in LA didnt call anyone boy or girl when she was called girl and stated she didnt like it you called her girl yet didnt like when someone called you boy... you can dish it out but not take it thats all Im pointing out Im sorry you dont like that but then the problem isnt with me!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 6:03:55 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Give it out but can't take it..?

Rabbit made a mistake in being rude to me in a choice of words..
I made a mistake in being rude to LA in a choice of words..
..hell, I even apologized for chosing the word poorly...

..it was a word that, in both cases, the offended simply mentioned.. one of those stupid little things most people are content to let die.. they meant nothing..

This is equally baseless, but you're just trying to be annoying. The fact you bring it up days later, for the sake of provocation, is why I call you a troll.. It's not cool. Grow up, ms.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 6:29:37 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

again with the name calling... interesting, am I getting to you??

oh and I didnt look at the dates on the posts, I saw it today so I commented on it today.

oh and CL your immeturity is showing

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 6:32:49 PM

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Yeah.. how dare I call a troll, well, a troll.. I must be really upset..

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/8/2007 6:40:39 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Thank you for proveing my case for me!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

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