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RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/7/2006 8:29:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet
In a group on Yahoo they are discussing the removal of collars as a form of punishment. i don't know, this just disturbs me... My collar is a symbol of US and of what we are together. Anyone have any thoughts on this????

Okay I haven't read the whole thread, however I don't need to in order to answer this question.

My collar is MINE, regardless of whether it resides upon a slave's neck or not. Wearing my collar is an honor. I don't allow just anyone to wear it, and if a slave in my collar misbehaves(I'm talking serious disrespect here), I seek realistic, effective ways to correct the behavior first. IF the slave continues on their disruptive path, I will remove the collar for a period of time to help them remember what it was like before they served me. I will (at the same time) not allow them to call me Mystress, or to do some of the more personal forms of service. I don't EVER use this except as a last resort, because the next step if they refuse to accept my authority, is permanent removal.

It isn't blackmail to help someone realize that they may be taking my collar for granted. In the past, this step has helped some realize they have a responsibility to live up to my expectations if they want to wear my collar. It has also helped some to understand that they were happier without my collar... not a tragedy if it helped them (and me) to realize that we weren't as great a match as we originally thought.

I never use this as manipulation, or emotional blackmail. I use it as a tool to help us both assess whether the relationship is viable.

Lady Kathryn
Athens Ga.

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/7/2006 8:35:57 PM

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From: Sacramento
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We call vanilla people silly but after reading this thread I think they may be vastly saner. Imagine if you could look at a man or woman and see what their spouse thought of them by how far off their finger the ring was, or if they took it on and off according to some emotional whim.

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/7/2006 8:49:00 PM

MasterStoney442

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In response to this . I give my slave my collar , it is there for the life of her . It is not a game . I would only take it off if I was to say ok this is done move on. To use it as Punishment is for fools . The vannila thing that was talked of is so damn silly . Look this is the life style we live ,get real .

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/7/2006 9:05:12 PM

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Stoney,

quote:

I give my slave my collar , it is there for the life of her .

quote:

I would only take it off if I was to say ok this is done move on.

How do you reconcile these two statements? Do you kill them when you move on or do they simply die a natural death upon removal of the collar?

quote:

To use it as Punishment is for fools .

That was the point of my post

quote:

Look this is the life style we live ,get real .

Since I gave up non corporeal bodies for lent, I have been real

(in reply to MasterStoney442)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 4:18:08 AM

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Punishment is the tool of one that does not know how to achieve his goals by means other than force. In my mind, it's all foolish, but making one feel the collar worn is in jeopardy for any transgression...is one of the most foolish.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 5:40:28 AM

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Hi

I really don't think it is a good idea to take away a collars as punishment - as some one else in here said - it is a symbol of what the Dominant and sub are together. It would be like braking that up....

Just my opinion

Life is to short not to take the chance - kinkyquiz.dk

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 11:24:43 AM

Mavis

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Of course all symbols, labels, rituals and traditions only have the meanings that each couple ascribes to them, but here's mine:

wedding ring taken or removed is clearly saying divorce is an option, or a pending event, barring some change of behavior.

collar taken or removed is clearly saying release is an option, or a pending event, barring some change of behavior.

So is "If that happens again, I will release you from My service because you will have broken the bounds of our agreement."
When i have committed some offense that shows a pattern that He won't tolerate, He has no problem stating quite clearly that He would rather release me than allow me to operate outside the objectives of the relationship.

Oddly enough...
When hubby went thru his "midlife stoopids", you dam bet we said the divorce word. You don't bandy it about easily, but at some point you do have to acknowledge there is this line, and beyond that, the relationship is a loss. (relationship healed, but we still haven't replaced the rings, my finger still aches over that)

i don't consider either an idle threat, but facing reality. In marriage or M/s, we only have the relationship symbolised by the ring or collar as long as both parties are operating according to the dictates of that relationship. i don't think in either case is it a "punishment", but it is definately a viable, and very serious warning to remove or take back the symbol.

(in reply to LisaRubberGirl)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 11:30:46 AM

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Do you take off your wife's wedding ring when you have an argument? No.

Removing the collar is poor form. The only time the collar should come off in such a way is if she is released, period.

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 11:42:11 AM

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From: Nashville, TN
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Using fast reply, so this is in reply to the thread in general and to no one in particular.

The collar is the physical symbol or O/our relationship for the outside world to see. I would consider removing My girl's collar to be the end of the D/s relationship, not a punishment. As her Domme I want her to feel safe and secure in My love for her. Punishing her with a threat of ending the relationship will only reinforce her fears and insecurities, not facilitate a safe and secure environment in which she can feel free to give and accept love and affection.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 11:51:59 AM

boy43

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Removing a collar. Well it have to caused by a very big fault, as this symbol is for some people, including me, the more beautiful and meaning symbol of a M/s relationship.
The harder of punishments?

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 12:36:28 PM

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I really really really don't like that idea. Its like breaking up with someone to make a point.

Maybe a better alternative would be for the dom/me to speak openly to his or her sub/slave about what happened to recieve this "punishment". Simply stating that he or she is upset does a lot to be submissive person. If it is something really serious, the dom could say somehting like "when you act like this, it makes me wonder how dearly you hold our relationship to be. Are you happy to be my sub/slave?" Doing so allows open communication rather than just shutting everything down.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 1:37:17 PM

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To remove a collar is to end the realitionship. That's why to collar someone, should not be take lightly. Certainly not punishment.

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/8/2006 4:19:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I dont see it that way ProtagonistLily because people in a Master/slave relationship are supposed to be having a Dominant and submissive relationship, one surrenders to the control and authority of the other...the submissive/slave trusts that whatever lesson is dished out its for their benefit...even if that includes using a piece of jewelry that they have a very strong emotional attachment to.

Whereas a vanilla partnership does not have those agreed dynamics and taking a wedding ring would mean an entirely different thing. Vanilla people would not be willing to play "this is your lesson for today".

*snickers* yeah and didn't they take the word "obey" out of marriage vows. Which for me that word is very crucial to my life as a slave.

lilith

_____________________________

Owned by Master Ramius

I do not know everything, still many things I understand.
(Goeth)

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 2:18:07 AM

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How interesting.... "the removal of a collar is the end of the M/s relationship"

Is that so???? funny how I am currently in two relationships that have been healthy, happy, and YEARS long, and they both involved removal of my collar for a brief time.

Sometimes a Mistress simply has to prove that she isn't bluffing. That she isn't a softy who will suddenly back down if her authority is challenged.

Interestingly enough, I know of two other (male) Doms in real life that also removed a collar temporarily during difficult times in their M/s life. Both relationships are ten years or longer in duration, and both couples are inseparable even now.

Maybe thats the common denominator? Is the collar "community property" in D/s relationships, but the Dominant's property in a M/s relationship?

I think it's rediculous how people can say unequivocally that a relationship is "over" by the removal of a symbol.

(in reply to lilithfyre)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 6:54:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

How interesting.... "the removal of a collar is the end of the M/s relationship"

Is that so???? funny how I am currently in two relationships that have been healthy, happy, and YEARS long, and they both involved removal of my collar for a brief time.

According to the terms my Master explained to me when he put it on my neck, yes that is so. Maybe it is not so in your relationship(s), but that is not the universal law for everyone else.

quote:

Sometimes a Mistress simply has to prove that she isn't bluffing. That she isn't a softy who will suddenly back down if her authority is challenged.

Maybe that's the difference. My Master does not need to prove he isn't bluffing. The one time he told me I needed to re-evaluate whether I wanted to be his or not, and said he was re-evaluating whether he wanted to keep me, and in what capacity (my collar remained on for this, as I still belonged to him during the evaluation period) was enough of a reality check for me. I cherish my collar and what it represents.

quote:

Interestingly enough, I know of two other (male) Doms in real life that also removed a collar temporarily during difficult times in their M/s life. Both relationships are ten years or longer in duration, and both couples are inseparable even now.

And you and two other Doms make up what should be the norm for the entire M/s, D/s society?

quote:

Maybe thats the common denominator? Is the collar "community property" in D/s relationships, but the Dominant's property in a M/s relationship?

Perhaps. I am in a M/s relationship and I am his property; therefore the collar he put on my neck also is.

quote:

I think it's rediculous how people can say unequivocally that a relationship is "over" by the removal of a symbol.

And in turn, many will think it's ridiculous that you think your truth should be everyone's.

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 7:28:52 AM

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I would be upset if a Master was to just take off the collar that both of us (or at least I would hope it was both of us that agreed) took the time to discuss and accept as D/s or M/s.

To do some thing like that shows:

not caring
childishness
lack of thought
not considering the over all consequences
wishing to be rid of the sub/slave

There are better ways to prove devotion and even punish.

I would gather my things and make arrangements to disappear and never have contact again. It is a foolish move and one, I might add, that is very ill conceived on the part of the Master to act so rash.

Would I return....NO
Would I miss Hime ... possibly......ok yes
Would I accept an apology ... that would depend on how good He was at groveling .. sometimes I just have to hear it and a simple "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it.

We are all who and what we are because it is just our nature. We all make mistakes and have our own flaws. It is human nature. However, as we grow into relationships we also accept that the other has flaws and limitations. This is what makes U/us each and every one special and an individual.

You (per say) accept us as subs/slaves knowing when we come into this that we are not perfect. I mean none of U/us are Gods or Godesses in the world of perfect, despite what some may think. Sure You may be the center of our universe, but still there are somethings that just have to be allowed for and patience and understanding are two of them. Taking a step back when your angry is another that so many fail to do before acting.

rajeeyah

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 8:30:22 AM

crouchingtigress

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As with everything In BDSM there are no black and white or absolutes, and I do personally know of a situation where removing the collar became a catalyst to the submissive doing some deep introspective soul searching, some self strengthening exercises, and some mental health healing.

In this situation it was for a specific time that both knew and agreed on.

I think if things have deteriorated to the degree that a dominant has to consider this option, then frankly the relationship needs something dramatic to get it back on course and offer the submissive a chance to take stock in who they are and what they need...

6 months later they were re-bonded and have been together for years.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 2:05:41 PM

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To Me...When a dominant gives a collar to a submissive it is not something to mess with...collars are a symbol of what their relationship is given and received out of love and trust. I think of it perhaps in a nilla sense if a husband and wife fight do they say give me back my ring until i forgive you? It just doesnt make sense to do that

_____________________________

be safe and smile
purrrs kitty
(=^.^=)
www.misskittys-scratchingpost.com

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 2:14:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

In a group on Yahoo they are discussing the removal of collars as a form of punishment.

i don't know, this just disturbs me... My collar is a symbol of US and of what we are together.

Anyone have any thoughts on this????

First thought to go through my mind... "Oh look another example of online idiots who haven't a clue..."

But okay, something less hostile.

In my book a collar is a symbol of the relationship (whether it actually takes the form of a collar or something else, its the symbol that matters). The collar does not belong to her, it belongs to me (as does she so long as she wears it). If I remove it and take it back, then the relationship is over, the collar remains mine, she does not. As a form of punishment its not effective. Punishment is intended to dimish or extinguish certain behaviors, ending the relationships seems a poor way to do that.

And that's how it works in my little world.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)

RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 5/11/2006 11:31:53 PM

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Okay, maybe you should go back and read the thread again from the beginning....?

I in no way said that my way is the only way. I know this, because I don't BELIEVE my way is the only way... Now to discuss a few finer points based upon that clarification:

The op asked for opinions... I have seen numerous replies where someone said "in my opinion", or "as I understand it", before going on to express their opinions. What rankles me are the posts where people maintain that THEIR opinion is the only one.

I am always aware that people come to these boards and form opinions based upon what they find here. Oftentimes I've heard that people end up thinking they are "crazy", or "not submissive" or "not dominant" or any number of things based upon the fact that the majority maintain that one specific concept is the "right" one.

Go back and read just this thread, and if this were a "democracy" the sheer number of assertions contrary to removing a collar unless a relationship is over, would prevail. Thank the Goddess this is NOT a democracy. This is a forum where different people with many different viewpoints come together to share, in hopes that it helps someone.

Maybe My wording was strong... but I feel that the way some of the respondents in this thread have asserted their opinions is unfortunate. Just because My opinion isn't the popular one, and just because I stand and speak my truth clearly and openly, does not mean I think my way is right for all.... but... it may resonate with someone and turn out to be right for them.

I have nothing to prove here... I'm not actively seeking a slave. I have a poly household with several years with both partners. The main reason I hang out here is for intelligent chat and the hopes that something I've experienced will help someone else. I speak from MY EXPERIENCE only, and many responses in this thread asserts something that I know to be untrue in MY CASE. If it is untrue in my case, then perhaps by speaking up, those who also find that it dosen't ring true for them will take heart and consider all the options before settling on the most popular one available.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

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