Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

Jane Fonda


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Jane Fonda Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 1:15:35 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
I received the following in one of those "pass it along" emails that we all get today.  I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with it, but I'd be interested in hearing reactions about it.

Once again, THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS.  I'm just interested in the reactions and wondering if there is truly truth to these allegations from the 60's.  Thanks. If it's too controversial, I understand if one of the mods cans it.

Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Read and Remember]






Please Read & Remenber

If you've never forwarded anything B/4, this is the one that needs to be.... 










She really was a traitor

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA

This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
not remember, and didn't have to bear the
burden that our fathers, mothers and older
brothers and sisters had to bear.



Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
"100 Women of the Century."

BY BARBRA WALTERS


Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
countless others have never known how Ms.
Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
but specific men who served and sacrificed
during Vietnam.




The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot



The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.


In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
Survival School
was a POW in Ho Lo Prison 
the "Hanoi Hilton."



Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
ordered to describe for a visiting American
"Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
treatment" he'd received.



He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
dragged away.
During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
on to the camp Commandant's feet, which  
sent that officer berserk.



In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from
double vision (which permanently ended his
flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.



From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
47FW/DO (F-4E's).  He spent 6 years in the
"Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his
family only knew he was "missing in action".
His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
clothed routine in preparation for a           
"peace delegation" visit.
They, however, had time and devised a plan to
get word to the world that they were alive    
and still survived.  Each man secreted a tiny
piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
on it, in the palm of his hand.



When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
man's hand and asking little encouraging
snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane
treatment from your benevolent captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
palmed her their sliver of paper.
She took them all without missing a beat.  At the
end of the line and once the camera stopped
rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
she turned to the officer in charge and handed
him all the little pieces of paper.



Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
Colonel Carrigan was almost number four    
but he survived, which is the only reason we
know of her actions that day.



I was a civilian economic development advisor
in Vietnam, and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.



I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year        
in a "black box" in Hanoi.
My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.
At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.      
(My normal weight is 170 lbs.)




We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."



When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by
the camp communist political officer if I would
be willing to meet with her.



I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received... and how
different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
"humane and lenient."



Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane.



I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
soon after I was released.  I asked her              
if she would be willing to debate me on TV. 
She never did answer me.



These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
someone who should be honored as part        
of "100 Years of Great Women."
Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"
should never include a traitor whose hands are
covered with the blood of so many patriots.



There are few things I have strong visceral
reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in
blatant treason, is one of them.
Please take the time to forward to as many
people as you possibly can.
It will eventually end up on her computer and
she needs to know that we will never forget.


_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 1:27:04 PM   
Pavel


Posts: 308
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline
Snopes is a handy place for dealing with such e-mails;

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

So basically, yes, she allowed herself to be a total tool for the North Vietnemese government, no, she was not passed notes during her visit to Vietnam.  She was ever so sweet and called POWs returning home "liars and hypocrites" for allegeing acts of torture though, which to me at least makes her rather unworthy to be the greatest of anything.  Especially given the fact that there's countless women that have contributed to science, society, and much greater things than being yet another American Actor/Actress with opinions.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 1:44:13 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
Can't say I'm Hanoi Jane's biggest fan!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 2:00:21 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
If you are looking for a consensus I agree with Pavel on this issue. 

(in reply to Pavel)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 2:20:30 PM   
weakboy


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
well one thing is for sure . she aided, abetted, and gave comfort to the enemy. she is a shameful person and as far as i am concerned, a traitor to this country. she has spent the years since that heinous act wondering why she has been so vilefied by veterans groups. too bad she could not have been tried for treason during wartime and shot. she deserves nothing and i for one will be called when she just goes away  never to be heard of again.  she will always be a traitor in my eyes.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 2:23:30 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
If criticizing your country for fighting a stupid war is treason, she was a traitor but others would say that is what a true patriot does.

I've recently seen a documentry on her and those accusations weren't listed.

Vietnam was a post colonial war and was misconceived. If anyone is to blame for the plight of the soldiers it was the politicians and policy makers.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 2:52:19 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
This is just one of many such Internet items...Pavel has adequately punctured this one and kindly supplied references...

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 3:07:37 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
I wouldn't bet my house on such sites being factual, I'm not saying it is wrong either, just that the internet is fiull of crap and it's the last thing I would ever use as evidence.

Actually if you read that site it reads like propaganda without any source to check the  facts. It doesn't even pretend to be balanced, that should be a clue as to how reliable it is.

It matters little to me one way or the other but if you are going to lynch someone, at least produce some evidence.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/16/2006 3:20:10 PM >

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 3:17:58 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
If criticizing your country for fighting a stupid war is treason, she was a traitor but others would say that is what a true patriot does.  
 

Indeed. BushCo has tried to convince everyone that questioning or dissent is either treason or aiding and abetting the enemy. Chency would accuse his own mother of being an insurgent if she didnt agree with him. The irony is that much of this mentality is exactly what our founding fathers fought against. Thank God they won. I know and used to live next to Jane. She was misguided in her approach and efforts but not her intent. She was young and we all make mistakes, more so in our youth. The difference is that most peoples mistakes are not played out in the national media.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 3:28:26 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
"Jane Fonda says her 1972 visit to a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun site, an incident that brought her the nickname “Hanoi Jane,” was a “betrayal” of American forces and of the “country that gave me privilege.”
 
Read the rest of the article here at http://msnbc.msn.com/ID/7349099
 
Is her regret enough?
 
Level

(in reply to MsMacComb)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 4:31:09 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Is her regret enough?


IMO Nope


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 4:38:11 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"Jane Fonda says her 1972 visit to a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun site, an incident that brought her the nickname “Hanoi Jane,” was a “betrayal” of American forces and of the “country that gave me privilege.”
 
Read the rest of the article here at http://msnbc.msn.com/ID/7349099
 
Is her regret enough?
 
Level


I personally see it as a PR stance.  I haven't seen her do one thing to help the people, specifically the prisoners she used as pawns.  Anyone can say anything.  I tend to look at actions.

To me there's a big difference between disagreeing with my government and actively helping the enemy.  One is the act of a true patriot; the other, treason.

I disagree with almost everything Bush has done, but not because I have any high regard for terrorists or even the innocent, but because I see his actions harming this country in the long run.



_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 4:48:20 PM   
masterliljohn


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
hanoi jane.. wow, get me started on her.. i am probably the youngest of the vietnam era vets (50)..  she is a traitor by defination and by acts, that she now admits.. she aided and abetted the enemy during time of war.. by defination, she is a traitor and should be brought up on charges of treason.. treason, by the way, HAS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS..  she should be brought up on charges, right now and prosecuted.. 

if she was right in front of me right now, i would punch her in the nose and hopefully break it and ruin her smile.. she ruined many people's lives and had more than one killed because of her actions.. i have no problem with people who protested the war.. that is their right, but she went over the line..  treason.. the only reason she has gotten out of it is because of the pussies that won't prosecute her, and the money that is behind/protecting her, along with a liberal hollywood..  bring charges now and get her off the street..

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 4:50:04 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline
Was Jane Fonda in "On Golden Pond,with Pop.( kinky family water sports..geez)?"
I love her for her artistic talent, not her politics, her husbands or her rich family heritage.
Shiat..Jane Fonda???  Now I'm suffering a flashback....hmmm, I knew drugs would pay me back..eventually! Kevin

< Message edited by fastlane -- 5/16/2006 4:51:44 PM >


_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 5:00:04 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
I notice someone already debunked this with Snopes.

On Fonda here's what I have to say:
She actively campaigned on behalf of the North Viet- government against the United States. It wasn't just a stance in opposition to the war. It wasn't just a stance asserting North Vietnam had a right to determine the future of themselves and their region. It wasn't just a stance that North Vietnam was the unfair target of illegal agression. She committed acts of treason, plain and simple.

However, what is even more shameful and rancid to me is the treatment she defiled veterns with and encouraged in her fellow war protesters. By all means, verbally rape those soldiers who actually did some downright horrifying things in Vietnam. But nearly all of the returning vets did not at all deserve that treatment.

*meow*

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 5:36:38 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterliljohn

hanoi jane.. wow, get me started on her.. i am probably the youngest of the vietnam era vets (50)..  she is a traitor by defination and by acts, that she now admits.. she aided and abetted the enemy during time of war.. by defination, she is a traitor and should be brought up on charges of treason.. treason, by the way, HAS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS..  she should be brought up on charges, right now and prosecuted.. 

if she was right in front of me right now, i would punch her in the nose and hopefully break it and ruin her smile.. she ruined many people's lives and had more than one killed because of her actions.. i have no problem with people who protested the war.. that is their right, but she went over the line..  treason.. the only reason she has gotten out of it is because of the pussies that won't prosecute her, and the money that is behind/protecting her, along with a liberal hollywood..  bring charges now and get her off the street..
 

Just curious how it is she got people killed?

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to masterliljohn)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 6:09:45 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I wouldn't bet my house on such sites being factual, I'm not saying it is wrong either, just that the internet is fiull of crap and it's the last thing I would ever use as evidence.

Actually if you read that site it reads like propaganda without any source to check the  facts. It doesn't even pretend to be balanced, that should be a clue as to how reliable it is.

It matters little to me one way or the other but if you are going to lynch someone, at least produce some evidence.


Snopes isn't the be-all and end-all of infallible sources, but there is a lot of room between that and calling it propaganda without any way to check facts...they have a pretty decent reputation for debunking internet myths.

Do you have anything we could go fact check ourselves that supports the OP as being true?

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 8:19:08 PM   
Pavel


Posts: 308
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline
In defence of my own use of Snopes, it is a handy little mostly true site, that much like wikipedia is useful, as long as you've got other information to back it up. 
You'll find simliar accusations of mistreatment of POWs in pretty much any serious book on the Vietnam conflict.  If you're unwilling to believe American accounts, perhaps you should read up on the fate of the French garrison at Dien Bien Phu.  The treatment of captured persons by the Viet Mihn, and later, Viet Cong and North Vietnemse military is very well established, from many sources much more sturdy than snopes.  As an aside, for those of you interested, look up a book called "Hell in a Very Small Place."  It details the duration of the siege at Dien Bien Phu, and I at least, found it interesting to delve into some of what laid the groundwork for the American intervention.

Anyways, back on topic.  It's  hard to quanitfy what exactly Fonda did to harm American forces.  It wasn't like she was shooting from that anti-aircraft gun or somthing, however, if you look back to the Second World War, and the cases with the Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally, and other citizens of allied countries making propoganda broadcasts, there is a precident for lending that kind of support being considered treason, and people have died, or been imprisoned for those acts, by both the US Government, and Western European countries (just to keep the debate within the realm of democratic countries, and to exclude true show trials ala the USSR).

She crossed the line from being anti-war, which is somthing I wouldn't object to strongly (in the strictest sense of being anti-war, many people can point out the folly of being involved in Vietnam without my prattling on about it), to being pro-North Vietnam, which I feel is the key element in any discussion on this topic.  It was no longer "give peace a chance" rather, it was "die GI war criminals, die."  While I'm certainly far removed from that generation of Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, and Saliors, the less than nice feelings this caused in those men is quite understandable, especially given their treatment post war.  Not to mention there's just the gall of Fonda to take her little tour as a true reflection of reality, and to accuse folks who'd been tortured at length of lying. 

Needless to say, the idea of Fonda as one of the hundred greatest women of the 20th century is certainly a bitter pill for many people (myself included).

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 8:37:27 PM   
boy43


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline
First i have to say i didnt knew nor hear about it. But we must be very cautious about this kind of "urban legend"... happened to "a friend of a friend of mine" kind.
In other hand, usually the defenders of human rights and peace have been victims of such kind of stories that put a shadow of dubt in the way people see them. This stories are so easy of making but very dificult to clean the honour after it.
Definately, i dont believe its true.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/16/2006 9:07:25 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
If you didn't know or hear.... then don't leap to defend what you don't know enough to make your own judgement on. I was young at the time, but old enough to remember.

It wasn't MY war, not my comerades in arms.... but having since been in the military myself, the thought of someone doing what she did to the people I served with.... I can put myself in the shoes of those vets and would any empty publicity seeking so-called appology be enough..... hell no!


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to boy43)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Jane Fonda Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

4.886