NastyDaddy
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Joined: 9/8/2004
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Have you all forgotten ''Barbarella''?
It was pointed out earlier that Jane Fonda did not place anyone in any prison in the Nam'... they were there as POW's of an ongoing armed conflict and most were captured combatants. None of those POW's were conscripts, very few if any were draftees (enlisted men who wore stripes were shot upon capture, as the Viet Cong only kept officers as prisoners), so in most cases the issue of finding oneself in the Hanoi Hilton was in large part brought about by oneself, and not Jane Fonda.
Many mistakes were made by many many people regarding the Nam'. President Lyndon B. Johnson was our fearless leader quoted on camera as saying, ''I will not send American boys to Viet Nam to do a job South Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves''... stated just prior to him sending 100's of Thousands of American boys there to do just that.
Jane Fonda thought it was a useless war and waste of over 65,000 American servicemen, and untold numbers of Vietnamese casualties. She was also aware of the US troops being ordered to disperse defoliants such as Agent Orange all over Viet Nam and Cambodia (oops we were not ever really there, right?), and the impact on innocent civilians in both places... and numerous other military genius methods of injuring or killing innocent civilians and noncombatants (the indigenous population of the combat theatre). Jane was aware of quite a few US atrocities such as the Me Lei massacre, our own B-52's bombing Stormin' Norman Swharzkopf's US Army Division in the Nam' (friendly fire??)... and of the political side, such as the massive war machinery industry in Texas which was profitting immensely off American blood loss in the Nam'.
While not defending Jane Fonda's actions, I can agree with her conclusions in many respects. As far as Jane Fonda being guilty of treason, that's a little bit ludicris IMO. Treason is an act that causes grave consequences towards US national security? If memory serves me correctly, we didn't lose the US over her actions, or come close to anything of the sort... so I saw no grave consequences towards the national security of the US. I only saw more awareness in US ''Joe Blow'' citizens that their American service members sons and daughters were coming home in boxes for really no good reasons, and it was time to make a change towards ending the useless war (ahem, conflict).
Mistakes continued.... mistakes or misfortunes, it depended on where you were sitting. When B-52's soared above North Viet Nam and Cambodia, passing through in wave after wave... the North Vietnamese quickly learned that instead of firing one or two missles at a single B-52, it was better odds of a hit if they fired salvo's of 40, 60, 80 or more Surface to Air Missles (SAM's) at a wave of incoming or outgoing B-52's... and they were right. The mistake was forgetting that what goes up must come down... all the missles that missed planes burned their small fuel loads and fell back down as bombs all over North Viet Nam (including schools, hospitals and shopping markets). Often the SAM crews that fired their missles never knew what happened from their missle salvos unless they actually hit a plane with some of them. this went on for several years before the SAM's were then equipped with proximity and altitude fuses so they would detonate upon losing altitude or getting close to a plane or missle in the air.
Mistakes continue to the present day... in Iraq and Afghanistan... Pat Tilley the pro football player who left the Cardinals to join the Army was killed by friendly fire from his own unit (how can it be friendly if it kills you?). Has anyone been tried for treason or the murder of Pat?
Mistakes continue and are often glorified.... there is a video clip being circulated around as an e-mail attachment, it is called NiteOps or something similar. The video is accompanied by a glorified text which describes an AC-130H Spectre Gunship locating Iraqi insurgents setting up an IED (Improvised Explosive Device) or roadside bomb next to a road in order to attack an approaching US convoy. The text states the AC-130H gunship fired its 40mm automatic cannons and wasted the insurgents, the convoy passed by uneventfully and the boys in blue saved some Army guys asses in the convoy. Now if you look at the video you will see a large farmtruck and a smaller SUV type vehicle like a Blazer sitting in the edge of a farmers field with two people by them. One of the people carries a farm implement (freshly sharpened cutting blade from the larger truck) out into the field, away from the trucks and lays the implement down. The person then walks back to the truck to get a tool. Now a farm tractor which is cutting the grain stops next to the cutting blade the first person laid next to where the farm tractor was approaching. As the tractor dtopped, you can see the cutting blade being raised up on it's left side. The driver gets off and walks towards the trucks while the first man starts to work on the raised cutting blade. All the while you can hear voices of the pilots and command post talking... it is actually a US Army Apache attack helicopter, and the pilot is telling his command post he has insurgents insight, and one of them threw a weapon down in the grass. Command Post asks are you sure it's a weapon... pilot replies affirmative, I'm positive. Command Post authorizes the pilot to fire, and the pilot spatters the tractor driver walking towards the trucks all over the field.... then trains the Apache cannon on the first person who is working on the tractor blade, blows him all over the field (infrared viseo showing warm guts spattered all over!)... then the pilot goes after the third person who is still at the trucks but has crawled under the large truck. The pilot fires the Apache cannon at the large farmtruck and hit the third person, who tries to crawl away from the truck... so the Apache pilot trains the cannon on the Blazer and the crawling bleeding injured and unarmed farmer (who looked like a long haired female in the video's beginning)... and spatters the third person's guts all over the farm field.
What I saw in the video was three unarmed farmers who got their asses deliberately blown to hell by exploding rounds from a heavily armed US Apache attack helicopter. I saw no road at all, no attempts of setting up any sort of weapon or IED by the unarmed farmers... what I saw was murder of innocent civilians, farmers. The most dispicable part of the whole thing is that it's now being passed around sugarcoated with disinformation and is being passed off as a glorious enterprise in ensuring freedom and saving US service member's lives in a nonexistent convoy on a nonexistent road. Score: Good Guys 3 and Bad Guys 0... that's the way that mistaken tragedy is going down, so is there any justice in those three farmer's lives being taken???
War and conflicts are often extremely confused and hectic environments, and all kinds of stuff happening at once... decisions often made in microseconds, sometimes beforehand, and throughout it all mistake after mistake after mistake keeps getting made... people die and other people pat themselves on the back, often advocating murder as being heroic.
Picking out one single person to blame for their mistakes in the midst of so many other mistakes, and continually ongoing mistakes is actually rather obscene.
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