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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/30/2006 11:11:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkee
i also thought she was a crappy actress. i guess now that she's married to Trump, she wants some respectability.

What are you talking about?

*****

Jane Fonda, 1988

"I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

(in reply to pinkee)

RE: Jane Fonda - 5/30/2006 1:24:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkee

i also thought she was a crappy actress. i guess now that she's married to Trump, she wants some respectability. She'll never get it from me.

pinkee

Donald Trump? I think Jane is far far too ancient to interest him. His current wife looks like she put away dolls only a few weeks ago.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/30/2006 3:22:01 PM

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Not that long ago, I watched "They Only Shoot Horses, Don't They?" and thought both the movie and Jane Fonda were very good.

To be serious for a minute, I think as adults, we have to be willing to allow someone to honestly admit a mistake and apologize to those that were wronged, and have those acts count for something.

Holding a grudge forever, encourages a world where generations of people have no motivation to ever admit they are wrong, and will never apologize for anything they do?

Oh wait ... that's the world we live in now ... as usual, I'm too late.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Jane Fonda - 5/30/2006 11:35:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54
Travelling to an enemy country while we are in a state of hostile conflict with them, allowing yourself to be used by the enemy as propoganda, criticizing our troops(while in the enemy country), is aiding and abetting the enemy. and she should have been apprehended immediatly upon her return to the states and convicted of treason.

I don't agree. Daily I wish I could go to Iraq and help those innocent people being slaughtered by numnuts Bush in his Genocide for Oil program. It takes balls to stick up for yourself, for others and to do the right thing. I am not a sheep and just because the USA war machine is in full swing and I don't agree with them/it doesnt mean I am a traitor but rather a patriot. Thats kind of what our founding fathers did. They fought against the same type of tyranny that is BushCo.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 4:25:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54
Travelling to an enemy country while we are in a state of hostile conflict with them, allowing yourself to be used by the enemy as propoganda, criticizing our troops(while in the enemy country), is aiding and abetting the enemy. and she should have been apprehended immediatly upon her return to the states and convicted of treason.

I don't agree. Daily I wish I could go to Iraq and help those innocent people being slaughtered by numnuts Bush in his Genocide for Oil program. It takes balls to stick up for yourself, for others and to do the right thing. I am not a sheep and just because the USA war machine is in full swing and I don't agree with them/it doesnt mean I am a traitor but rather a patriot. Thats kind of what our founding fathers did. They fought against the same type of tyranny that is BushCo.

You would go and bring money to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and pose with him for photographs saying that his cause was just? You'd visit hostages and later say they deserved their fate?

Yup, I'd call that a traitor.

If you just want to visit Iraq and help people, go right ahead. We aren't at war with Iraq and you'd probably get a chance to see your friends close up if you wandered through Bagdad for any time at all. Of course, the question is whether you'd survive the experience.

There is a big difference between opposing the war and supporting the enemy.

I oppose the war. I've done so repeatedly and publically but the only time I'd like to see al-Zarqawi is through a 9x Weber on an M41.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 6:12:16 AM

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quote:

I don't agree. Daily I wish I could go to Iraq and help those innocent people being slaughtered by numnuts Bush in his Genocide for Oil program. It takes balls to stick up for yourself, for others and to do the right thing. I am not a sheep and just because the USA war machine is in full swing and I don't agree with them/it doesnt mean I am a traitor but rather a patriot. Thats kind of what our founding fathers did. They fought against the same type of tyranny that is BushCo.

What is your problem?! War Machine? Sheep? BushCo., you know you would proably be babbling the same bullshit if Kerry was elected.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 8:57:21 AM

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okay, now i'm not siding with the "hawks" that are blaming JF for everything that happened since 40yrs ago, but i cant tell what they were doing in this video and i have spent a lot of time in farm country, and it looks nothing like farming. i just hope the ppl doing the killing had a better grasp of this than i did. i would hate to have shot up 3 ppl for setting up a produce stand

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 9:15:31 AM

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btw pinkee, she married and divorced Ted Turner not Trump

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 9:17:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

Try here for the three farmers slaughtering video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXekZfUOkw&search=Gunship

The same video is being e-mailed around the net and advocated by unknowing military members and veterans as an AC-130 gunship taking out insurgents placing a roadside IED, bragging about what a great job the military is doing, while this was nothing short of remote platform pushbutton murder knowing you can and will get away with it.

Actually that video looked suspicious to me. So the guy drives up and runs full speed into the the field and throws down something that easily could have been a weapon and runs back to the vehicles. Why would you run and throw a farm tool, then run back to your car? It makes since if it was a weapon to do that, since you want to hide it quickly. Ummmm, I dont' think that video proves a mistake, I'm sure there have been plenty but the actions of the men don't make sense if it was a farm tool. Maybe they were just the oddest farms I've ever seen. I guess.

One thing we need to remember was the guy in the helicopter (NOT an AC-130) had a lot clearer view of what was going on than we're seeing. Just look at how blurred the HUD display is here. It would be crystal clear to the viewer so the rest would be clearer by that same degree.

What the guy throws down looks a lot like the main tube from an 80 or 81 mm mortar but it could be a surface to surface missile. If he's building a "farm stand" he seems to be in one hell of a hurry and setting it up too far from the road. Generally those shacks are right on the edge of the paved surface.

Like I say, not much can be told from the pictures in the condition we're getting them.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 10:14:14 AM

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I used to own an old farm house in the French countryide and often used to muse over a glass of wine about what the fuck my peasant farmer neighbour was doing down in the meadow with his labourers. Quite often none of it made sense to me and as for metal tubes, I could think of a lot of things it could be from driveshafts to cheap metal tubing to botch alsorts of things up with from carts to fences to make shift feed staffs and markers etc. etc. etc. If I saw them on military video then I'm sure their behaviour would look suspicious, the fact its on military video immediately puts the idea in our head these men aren't innocent.

And I used to hear him quite often driving his old tractor around way after dark in the pitch black. Fuck knows what he was doing because at times you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/31/2006 11:10:42 AM >

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 10:55:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

You would go and bring money to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and pose with him for photographs saying that his cause was just? You'd visit hostages and later say they deserved their fate?

Yup, I'd call that a traitor.

If you just want to visit Iraq and help people, go right ahead. We aren't at war with Iraq and you'd probably get a chance to see your friends close up if you wandered through Bagdad for any time at all. Of course, the question is whether you'd survive the experience.

We're not at war with Iraq? Since when? Who's dying over there? Africans? That would be my point exactly.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 10:57:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
What is your problem?! War Machine? Sheep? BushCo., you know you would proably be babbling the same bullshit if Kerry was elected.

Kerry? What does he have to do with anything?
Dumbfuck Bush is the only president to invade and occupy another country. Do you even read the papers? Ah , never mind, obviously not.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:13:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
What is your problem?! War Machine? Sheep? BushCo., you know you would proably be babbling the same bullshit if Kerry was elected.

Kerry? What does he have to do with anything?
Dumbfuck Bush is the only president to invade and occupy another country. Do you even read the papers? Ah , never mind, obviously not.

*bangs head desk*
Vietnam, Korea

(in reply to MsMacComb)

RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:21:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
*bangs head desk*
Vietnam, Korea

*Bangs head headboard*
No prococation. Invade/occupy for no reason whatsoever, other than to satisfy some odd complex father/son dynamic plus DarthVader Cheney's desire for oil.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:25:50 AM

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We warent provoked in Vietnam Either

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:28:10 AM

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So this is a similar mistake?

Perhaps Bush should have read up on his history.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:34:01 AM

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Eh, Bush is a nitwit, who depends on his father to fix his mistakes. He wont learn hell just keep on plowing through, using American people as the collateral.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 11:39:54 AM

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It will probably take some time to determine if our involvement in Iraq was a mistake. Even when it becomes completely clear, it may still be unclear.

Vietnam is a good example, in that even today, many see it as a great mistake, while others see it as a single lost battle in a larger geo-political war that was in fact won by Western Democracies.

I've said many times that I completely oppose our involvement in Iraq, but at this point, claims that it was a mistake, are just conjecture. No person walking this planet, really knows how it will all turn out.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 12:27:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
What is your problem?! War Machine? Sheep? BushCo., you know you would proably be babbling the same bullshit if Kerry was elected.

Kerry? What does he have to do with anything?
Dumbfuck Bush is the only president to invade and occupy another country. Do you even read the papers? Ah , never mind, obviously not.

*bangs head desk*
Vietnam, Korea

I wonder if she's forgotten Germany and Japan. I suppose Truman didn't occupy them, but if so, he sure fooled the Germans and the Japanese. Hell, for a while back there, the US Marines almost literally owned Haiti.... so much so, that when President Roosevelt came to visit, the local band struck up "The Hymn" thinking it was the US anthem.

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RE: Jane Fonda - 5/31/2006 12:39:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

I wonder if she's forgotten Germany and Japan. I suppose Truman didn't occupy them, but if so, he sure fooled the Germans and the Japanese. Hell, for a while back there, the US Marines almost literally owned Haiti.... so much so, that when President Roosevelt came to visit, the local band struck up "The Hymn" thinking it was the US anthem.

John, I seem to recall something pertaining to Japan and Pearl Harbor. Obviously the US has assisted, and yes instigated, in other "political actions" and wars. I don't think comparing our "situation" with Japan in the 40s has anything to do with Bush invading Iraq.
This is the first time in US history that the USA preemptively invaded and occupied another country with no just cause. It was based on bullshit made up "evidence" hand picked and determined by Cheney after his living at CIA headquarters for a couple months leading up to the invasion. PFNAC and other doctrines via Bush all but laid this out years before he ever stole the White House. Look, there is no shortage of evidence and info about this entire fiasco. They (BushCo) are war profiteers, war criminals and should be sent to the Hague. Iraq did nothing to us, never did (including Kuwait). Humanity at large has been far more violated by numerous African countries for which we (neither party) have ever done squat. BushCo rhetoric aside, Saddam was not as bad (yes he was an asshole) as many other dictators and again, he did NOTHING to the US. I think mentioning Japan/Hitler in this regard is beneath you and your intelligence.

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