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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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So who has a recipe for Swedish meatballs?

1. Soak some breadcrumbs in milk for about 10 minutes.
2. Lightly brown some chopped onion in melted butter in a skillet
3. Mix the onions, some ground beef, some ground pork, eggs, brown sugar, salt, pepper, allspice, nutmeg and just a touch of ginger.
4. When that is all well mixed, add in the bread and milk, and mix it lightly
heat a skillet and melt some butter in it. make each meatball (about 1-2 Tblspn of meat mixture per ball) and drop it in the skillet.
Cook about 5 minutes (until the outside is browned), turning them the whole time.
5.Put the browned meatballs (the insides should still be raw) in a baking pan with some chicken broth, cover with foil, and bake at 350 for about 40 minutes.
6. Take out the meatballs and pour the drippings into a heated skillet and whisk in some flour. keep whisking in flour and beef broth until you get the amount you want and then bring it to a simmer and whisk until it thickens (should take 5-8 minutes). Then add some pepper and sour cream, whisk well, and pour over the meatballs and serve.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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I think that's overstating it.

And you are wrong.

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It has socialist influences

Yeah? Name some.

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its capitalism is controlled.

How is that even vaguely relevant? So is that of the U.S., so what point do you think you made?

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To the average American - though probably not the average European - some of those socialist influences would be pretty striking.

Again, what socialist influences?

The very idea of controlling capitalism - by means of a welfare state - any kind of redistribution - has socialist influences. Bear in mind that 'socialism' is a very broad church. It's not reducible to Marx and revolutionary socialism, still less communism (whatever your flavour) - not by any means. Sweden has a mixed economy - as does the USA, though the latter a lot less so. Sweden's post WW2 consensus was like that of a lot of First World countries - a blend of 'one-nation conservatism' (the Disraeli sort - paternalism and the idea that 'we must look after our children', crudely speaking), modern liberalism (positive freedoms added to negative freedoms - the idea that 'no man can be free if he lacks the essentials'), and the sort of watered-down socialism of social democracy. The socialist influences were there, in the left-of-centre parties, across the advanced capitalist nations.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

FR

defining terms is important, but getting overly nitpicky to the point of contention and losing the larger point is not, nor is criticizing someone else because they don't hold to your particular definition of a word.

hopefully this will help:

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II. Types of Socialism

Socialists tend to be active social and political theorists, and have developed a bewildering array of different schools of thought. These various schools disagree on almost everything, but they all agree that unchecked capitalism is a dangerous and destructive force. Also, these schools are not mutually exclusive: that is, many people borrow ideas from several different brands of socialism and form their own unique political perspective within the broad umbrella of socialism. Here is a small sample of some forms that socialism can take:..

b. Market Socialism

The government has an important role to play in protecting the poor, the environment, and future generations, but should not set prices or interfere too much in the market. Often combined with democratic socialism, or the view that socialism should be based on elections. Many countries in Europe pursue this model, which has helped them limit the effects of extreme poverty, but also imposes high tax burdens and in some cases, when not managed well, can create budget problems...

V. The History and Importance of Socialism

Socialists want to build on the accomplishments of their predecessors in the previous century and advocate for a society based on the model of Democratic Socialist countries such as Norway and Finland.

http://philosophyterms.com/socialism/

in short---stop bitching about the term, according to your lights, being used wrongly and accept its a word with many broad meanings that can be used correctly in a number of ways.

at the same time, its worth sharing again, the underlying tension is one of individualism vs collectivism, and its often far more useful to think of things in those terms.

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ORIGINAL: longwayhome

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

FR

I wasn't bitching about anything, least of all definitions.

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And then we got Norway mentioned at the same sentence as 'Socialism'
Norway is ultra-capitalist!
I know, this post written in Jessheim, 30 minutes from Oslo, Norway.

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getting something socialized which means from govt,

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So there is socialism as in the 'public ownership' of the means of production.

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socialism is for the elites the investor class, corp. America

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ORIGINAL: Aibo
And then we got Norway mentioned at the same sentence as 'Socialism'
Norway is ultra-capitalist!
I know, this post written in Jessheim, 30 minutes from Oslo, Norway.

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Socialism is an economic philosophy based on the need for regulations on capitalism. Unchecked capitalism, most economists agree, can create serious problems in the long term, since short-term personal profit does not motivate companies to take care of infrastructure, the environment, or their workers. Socialists emphasize this fact and argue that only the government can solve the problems created by capitalism...Although many people think that socialism and capitalism are completely incompatible systems, the fact is that most developed nations operate on a combination of both...All of these are socialist ideas that exist in relative harmony with capitalist economies. Capitalism vs. socialism is a question of balance, not an “either/or” question.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Arguing for a fraction of all that would get you called a socialist or even a commie from many quarters in the USA, it seems. ;)

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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getting something socialized which means from govt,

No it does not. It can, but does not have to. It means whatever is done collectively, it can be through the government, or through private organization.

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So there is socialism as in the 'public ownership' of the means of production.

No, that is state capitalism.

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socialism is for the elites the investor class, corp. America

That is an oxymoron, once again you demonstrate that you have no idea what the term "socialism" means.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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Socialism is an economic philosophy based on the need for regulations on capitalism. Unchecked capitalism, most economists agree, can create serious problems in the long term, since short-term personal profit does not motivate companies to take care of infrastructure, the environment, or their workers. Socialists emphasize this fact and argue that only the government can solve the problems created by capitalism...Although many people think that socialism and capitalism are completely incompatible systems, the fact is that most developed nations operate on a combination of both...All of these are socialist ideas that exist in relative harmony with capitalist economies. Capitalism vs. socialism is a question of balance, not an “either/or” question.

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ORIGINAL: Aibo

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Arguing for a fraction of all that would get you called a socialist or even a commie from many quarters in the USA, it seems. ;)

No worries on that mate, I even label myself socialist! ....see my sig.

Yes the Norwegian government is a major shareholder in and even the founder of both Statoil and Statkraft.
The reason for this is socio-economic historical, at the time when oil were found outside the Norwegian coast the private sector could not manage such a big undertaking. (Remember that the country got a rather small population.)
At the time Norway were in fact one of the poorest countries in Europe - after the fishing and whaling crash.
The only way to get the funding were to have the government step in, the alternative would have been to simply hand the oil over to foreign corporations.
So yes, the country got a bit of 'big government' yet going into details on the other two would be too lengthy and would not serve any purpose either.

Lets have a look on daily life instead:
To travel along the coast you'll need to use ferries, and the fee is altogether commercial - and in fact have gotten extremely expensive in the last couple of years, ie: Fully commercial price on those. not to mention the flipping toll road fees on every major road here.

The reality of daily life is however that 670 000 is under the official poverty limit (heard that on national radio here two weeks ago).

Yes there's social and unemployment checks you could get if you get fired. But it's not possible to keep your home if you end up with such.
And renting is not any alternative, in fact rentals are practically nonexistent, the few exceptions are very costly indeed - a hotel room cost less.
(I lived 2 years in a hotel room in fact, nice tidy breakfast included, but then I make a neat sum each month here.)

Property prices are absolutely wild, and those who are not fit for the hamsterwheel end up living in flophouses and caravan parks.
I could go on giving examples, but I think that's enough to show that Norway got one uncontrolled and quite vicious variety of capitalism that in some ways are an even more unforgiving variety that can be found in any other country in Europe.

When in contact with the medical system, everything got a fee, meeting the doc, the another fee for getting a printout of your condition. Now lets say it turn out you got cancer, it'll be quite a number of fees before you eventually get to surgery.
As a matter of fact I am up for surgery later this autumn, like most here I go the private path and it'll be entirely paid out of my own wallet, no subsidize or insurance will cover even though it's necessary else......

So: Norway resemble USA in many ways, and it's when comparing with the rest of Europe I label Norway 'ultra capitalist' - compared to USA it's in the same league but somewhat more forgiving.

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ORIGINAL: Aibo

Tank you for posting the full story. The worst part of is that he refused the child to be scanned!
All and each county hospital in Sweden got NMR or MRI nowadays to my knowledge - no radiation involved.
So in this case I understand the authorities find it odd that the parent refusing having the child checked out.

It's not just about potential abuse, but mandatory to check if anything is wrong in any other way to prevent any problem from developing into anything serious.
(Compare that to the US where the docs perform a lot of tests on each patient to avoid being sued for not spotting any malady.
In Sweden the relatives/parents usually don't sue but instead file a "malpractice report" but the result is the same with cash compensation.
Equally important is the need for keeping medical costs down by treating any problem early on, as hospital/treatment costs are subsidized.)

A couple of decades ago, 1983, Sweden were slowly edging toward 'Market socialism' an idea pushed by the unions, but it was stopped by the Social democratic minister of economy Mr Kjell Olov Feldt.
(Sweden is just one example of that era where the unions tried to set the agenda for the parliament, something similar happened in the UK at about the same time - stopped by Margaret Thatcher there.)

And then we got Norway mentioned at the same sentence as 'Socialism'
Norway is ultra-capitalist!
I know, this post written in Jessheim, 30 minutes from Oslo, Norway.

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Well you know as much as me that far too many and mostly on the right, argue that for govt. to be involved in terms of govt. contribution is called 'socialized' so that really is a rather undefined term.
...

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

TDC, can you link us to your own definition of 'socialism'?

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long before the term 'state capitalism' even entered the public lexicon

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So-called state capitalism means to me