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RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:16:19 AM

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BoiJen,

I actually know a few Pro Dommes...both here in Houston and in New Orleans. So, I do have some knowledge of this subject. I even know one here who is engaged to a former client of hers and they seem quite content. He's her slave as well now. However, I cannot speak for anyone else. I'm NOT a Pro, so why don't you ask any specific questions to someone who is. It looks as if there are at least a couple who have posted on this thread. At any rate, I do feel they help feel a valuable "niche" within the BDSM community and otherwise. They are usually GREAT resource persons and can provide valuable insight and education from their vast experiences. Also, for some individuals, their ONLY BDSM outlet revolves around their sessions with their Pro Domme for various reasons. For instance, some married men may be "allowed" to session with a Domme as long as it is kept on a "professional" level...and he may have his wife's consent and/or blessing.

Be well,
M. Diva

< Message edited by gothicdiva -- 5/12/2007 7:37:33 AM >

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:18:45 AM

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Prostitution is the trade of sexual acts for a money. If the prostitute is on top or slapping the johns ass instead of him slapping hers, it is still prostitution.

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:28:35 AM

Posts: 111
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Mstrss Passion,

Hmmmm...I am not sure what happened with the quoting, but I deleted part of it because I wanted to address a specific part of what you had said. So, I am not going to use it here.

At any rate, I didn't mean to imply that *I* am the only person who has "wasted" time here. But, I do feel when someone is not being honest and you are interacting with them based on that dishonesty, it IS a waste. For one, you are not really interacting with the person you think they are OR the person you are drawn to...at least on a mental level. I agree we learn from all interactions that we have with others in life. And, it is those interactions that make us WHO we are. What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger, right? It seems that I keep learning the same particular lesson over and over. Maybe that means that I need to get offline and get out in the "real world" more as I don't seem to be making very good choices here; although they may appear to be so initially. I believe in giving people the "benefit of the doubt" if there is some sort of "spark" or interest that is mutually felt. Maybe I need to "look inside myself" as to why I seem to be "revisiting" the same scenario over and over as you suggested? Like I posted earlier, I think that the age of the person might directly be proportionate to my lack of overall satisfaction. I'm certainly not "bitter or jaded" and not going to suspend my search for "the One." Although, I may go on "sabbatical" from time to time. Thank you for the "well wishes."

M. Diva

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:32:15 AM

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ummmm...

What's wrong with being a prostitute or gigilo?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:42:55 AM

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Eyesopened ...it's interesting ... the only sub-culture that considers me a prostitute is my own . Almost all men and women outside the so called bdsm scene / ds lifestyle think I'm a legend.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to eyesopened)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 7:56:02 AM

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Copulo,

Don't think that professional domination on some level hasn't crossed my mind. It has. I just haven't decided if I really want to make that transition or not. For one, I have ALOT of questions and concerns...including legalities, etc. However, that's another topic in and of itself. As far as being an "actress," I have been one since early childhood and am usually quite good at getting my way or what I want. My Dad would certainly validate that....LOL I know that if things are meant to work out for me within this lifestyle and elsewhere, it will happen. I am generally an "optimist." However, that doesn't mean that disappointments do not bring me down on some level. But, I tend to rebound quite quickly and nicely. I am not in any particular hurry to be in a relationship of any sort. As far as relationships go, perhaps I am just "too selective" and I am missing out on someone that would/could be a worthy partner because of my "self-imposed" standards. I really don't know. However, I don't feel at this point like I should have to compromise them on any level just to be with someone. I'm not the type to "settle." Thank you for your insight.

Be well,
M. Diva

(in reply to Copulo)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 8:29:54 AM

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[/quote]
Pro-Dommes don't solicite their clients for the most part it's be referal and reference they're the ones who are solicited. WHat I see here is a bunch of bull fed into by some media idea of what Pro-Dommes do...how many of you actually know a Pro?

[/quote]

Actually, i do know a pro-Domme. We've gone to lunch together, we've gone to a nightclub together, and we've exchanged many phone calls. But we never did do a "scene" together. I know very well what pro-Dommes do. They run a business. They exchange a service for a fee (regardless of what the fee consists of or how large or small the "fee" is.) Like any business, they can "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". And as i said in my first post on this thread, i have absolutely no problem what-so-ever with pro-domination. Regardless of who solicets whom it is still, in the end, a business deal, making it vastly different from purely social interactions. You can't compare oranges to apples.

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 8:58:35 AM

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From: Iceland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mercmjm

I agree, dommes who require tribute are whores. Whether its money or gift or whatever. It does not matter if you say you must paint my fence and fix my pc inorder to be my slave, you are still a prostitute,. Infact they are what is ruining the lifestyle for alot of male and female subs who are new to this

How on earth did you come up with the conclusion that a pro dommes are ruining the lifestyle for a lot of subs? Most of the prodommes that I know are exactly on the other end, a driving force in the scene and helping a lot of subs taking the first steps in the lifestyle.

_____________________________

Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

(in reply to mercmjm)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 9:07:09 AM

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I always like to point out all the male doms who require their subs to dress a certain way, present themselves in a certain way when they first meet. Somehow that's ok, but requiring a specific physical gift or money isn't.

I understand why that is, but I don't understand why so few see the ridiculous double standard here.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sadomasokisti)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 9:30:20 AM

Handspankingdom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Pro-Dommes don't solicite their clients for the most part it's be referal and reference they're the ones who are solicited.

Don't solicit their clients? Now I am certain that in 'some' instances a referral or reference may be the rule for a 'seasoned' domme, but one browse thru Collarme.com will more than amply prove this theory flatly incorrect.

quote:

Igor2003 wrote:

WHat I see here is a bunch of bull fed into by some media idea of what Pro-Dommes do...how many of you actually know a Pro?

Actually, I know several. While I personally do not have a problem with "Pro Dommes" I find it woefully irresponsible that some would compare this service to that of a professional (doctor, lawyer, sex therapist). For starters, the latter are in some way, shape or form sanctioned, certified or have met legal and state competency tests to offer their services. No such standards exist for a Pro Domme-- meaning that one could attend a few munches, do a bit of reading, and begin demanding handsome tributes for their services. Regardless of experience, there is simply no legitimacy to this argument.

I will concede that Pro Dommes do indeed provide a service, and the fees decided upon between the potential submissive and their domme/master, are the interplay between what one is willing to pay, and what one feels their services are worth. Because there is no regulating body (I'm not proposing one) what one feels their services are worth can often be the subject of debate.

quote:

Igor2003 wrote:

Actually, i do know a pro-Domme. We've gone to lunch together, we've gone to a nightclub together, and we've exchanged many phone calls. But we never did do a "scene" together. I know very well what pro-Dommes do. They run a business. They exchange a service for a fee (regardless of what the fee consists of or how large or small the "fee" is.) Like any business, they can "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". And as i said in my first post on this thread, i have absolutely no problem what-so-ever with pro-domination. Regardless of who solicets whom it is still, in the end, a business deal, making it vastly different from purely social interactions. You can't compare oranges to apples.

The original post was a question of what posters here thought about Pro Dommes and their relation (if any) to prostitution. For most, BDSM is indeed a part of our sexuality (I think anyone who denies such a thing is either asexual or a liar). Like sex, we either engage in it for business or pleasure (or in the case of heterosexuals for procreation). To categorize sexual relations as purely sexual intercourse especially when we're dealing with such highly sexed people, is being purposefully ambiguous. This is an 'adult related' site for a reason.

Michael

(in reply to igor2003)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 9:45:16 AM

Handspankingdom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I always like to point out all the male doms who require their subs to dress a certain way, present themselves in a certain way when they first meet. Somehow that's ok, but requiring a specific physical gift or money isn't.

While I can't speak for all male doms, if I "did" require any sub to dress a certain way or present themself in a specific manner, it would be done more as a projection of the things we have pre-discussed. For some, a 'scene' often involves some type of uniform, or role play that may enhance the experience. Good Masters understand the importance of headspace and the psychological influence such suggestions may induce. I fail to see how this is the same as requiring a tribute or monetary gift.

quote:

I understand why that is, but I don't understand why so few see the ridiculous double standard here.

Ridiculous double standard? Again, I fail to see any connection. One seems to be a requirement (money) "before" any interaction or meeting takes place. The other seems to be a 'pre-discussed' request "after" the parties in question have agreed to meet.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 11:08:54 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer

Good day, forum readers. I had a conversation with a few friends this week and something they asked me was profound enough for me to ponder it. And, as I like to think with other people, I figured I'd post this to the Forums. I'm not posting this to the Ask a Mistress/Master area because it affects us as a whole, by perception. I ask that people not send flames, as this is a legitimate query from some folks who are relatively new and seeking answers. The question I was asked is:

"If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/giggilo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company."

That one threw me for a loop. I'd never thought of it that way, really, as I don't ask for tribute. I LOVE meeting new people. So, I thought I'd put it out to the forums to discuss, rationally, so I can show the thread to the questioners.

Master Darkmoon

P.S.
As a side note, this is my 25th posting, so I lost my Vanilla Cone. lol (well, I thought I'd lose my cone)

I don't know that it does make them any different; having said that, I should also add I have no problems with prostitution, it should be legal. Two (or more) consenting adults, enjoying life together? Sounds like a good thing, to me.

Now, the above is meant in the context of no one being cheated on, by the way.....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 11:50:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I always like to point out all the male doms who require their subs to dress a certain way, present themselves in a certain way when they first meet. Somehow that's ok, but requiring a specific physical gift or money isn't.

I understand why that is, but I don't understand why so few see the ridiculous double standard here.

Sorry, but i don't see the double standard either. First, i don't think the two scenarios compare. One is requiring a fee or some other "gift" that actually changes hands, the other is requesting a show of compliance. That is two different and seperate things. (at least in my perspective it is.) In either instance the sub has the option of telling the dominant to get lost if they don't like the idea.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/12/2007 4:11:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

~~~But Diva don’t fall into this trap. You can earn serious money as a pro Domme. You could pay your mortgage off within five years and guess what? You don’t even have to be a ‘real Domme’ you can be just a good actress. Why just settle for tributes when you can have so much more?~~~

Then I must be doing something terribly wrong because no one in this household is living high on the hog. Like most people, we live pretty much from paycheck to paycheck. If you could let me know how I could correct this in order to get my house paid off (in 5 short years!), I'll call the bank and tell them to cancel that request for a re-finance.
Mistress Scarlet

You don't stand a chance with the mayor we have in indy lol.

minnetar

(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 3:52:39 AM

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Fast reply -

i'm still trying to figure out why it's okay to charge $60 for 10 minutes of parasailing but not okay to ask for a financial tribute for an hour's BDSM session? Please tell me it's because everyone wants a romantic madly in love with each other relationship?

_____________________________

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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to minnetar)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 3:55:24 AM

curiousexplorer

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"If paying for domination means it isn't domination...does that mean paying for sex, isn't really sex?"

I'm not sure how you come up with that. I am talking about about an employer paying an employee for a service, and how in that relationship the dominant one is the employer, not the employee.

"quote:
"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005."

So to learn the art of submission a slave must give up desires of submission which are the only reason he is seeking such a service in the first place? And you really don't see the problem with that? Fair enough, different strokes for different folks. Though I do hope this is different from those people who say to obtain wisdom you must abandon what you already know?
Thanks for the link to your website, but it didn't provide anything that isn't in this thread, or give me any reason to change my views. If anything it reinforced my thoughts on the subject.

"So why would BDSM and/or sex be so opposite that one should never have to pay for those pleasures or experiences?? "

Nothing wrong with the service, especially if those providing it don't try to pretend it's not what it is. Some people just have issues with the term prostitute, but funnily enough they have no problems with the concept and the money. That is their problem, not mine. Just as it is the religious peoples problem when I call their beliefs mythology, just as I would for any other culture throughout history. I'm more interested in concepts than the words people are afraid of.

What I have found interesting is all the prodommes who don't want anything to do with married men, and the reasons they give, and then reading the prodommes who think what they do is not prostitution. If it's not prostitution, why the problem with the wives? Wives don't care about personal trainers, physios or chiros, doctors, or masseuses. They often have an opinion about prostitutes though. So which category do prodommes fit into?

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 3:59:36 AM

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From: Tampa, FL
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-fast reply-
i paid $100 to have my naked body covered in hot mud and saran-wrapped. The only difference is that the woman who performed these things on me didn't wear leather and it was called a 'day spa'

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to curiousexplorer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 4:30:31 AM

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i've always found it interesting how some people would offer judgment on things that have absolutly no effect on their lives.

the only reason prostitution is not legal in some places is because some people with enough power to keep it illegal say so... and for them to legalize it would be admitting that it's something that's never going to go away. it's called the oldest profession for a reason.

some people will always find a way to do 3 things - get drunk, get goonered and get nookie. if takes money - so be it. i don't care! i'd rather see it done with some measure of safety in mind instead of a crime ring around it.

note: i did not say pro-dom(me) is prostitution.

bottom line on any of that is - if you feel like a whore... you're a whore! (or man-whore) - if you want to feel like one... more power to ya!

who among you is without sin!? hmm?

i got news for you - the laws (especially in north america) regarding sex etc. are from the puritans and they are loosely based on christian values and the bible.

i'm paraphrasing of course... but if you masturbate - you're as bad as the whore, as bad as the murderer, sin is sin. repent! if you believe in it at all... if you don't believe me look it up before you comment. that means read the whole thing. cause if you haven't - you have no leg to stand on with me. i've read the king james and the new world translation of the bible and it's pretty black and white.

the law would impose degrees of crime in order to see who among us sinners is fit to stay in the regular loop of society and who may kill again etc. but the bible and therefore the potential origin of your bias says sin is sin is sin is sin!

so guess what - fellow masturbaters, fornicators and all us sinners alike - you're in the same hand-basket as the prostitute the slut and the whore. look around... feel the wicker... mmm... nice isn't it...

so perhaps you should take a good look in the mirror ... take out your moral compass, turn it over and see *who* made it... cause if you don't agree entirely with the maker of your compass - perhaps you should get a new one before you let the old one put your foot in your mouth again today.... let's try not to be hypocrites shall we.

(in reply to eyesopened)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 4:54:20 AM

curiousexplorer

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2007
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"ummmm...
What's wrong with being a prostitute or gigilo?"

Ask all the ones who can't handle using those words to describe their work. Or the ones hiding the fact they are working.

"WHat I see here is a bunch of bull fed into by some media idea of what Pro-Dommes do...how many of you actually know a Pro? "

Prabably most people in this thread.

"I always like to point out all the male doms who require their subs to dress a certain way, present themselves in a certain way when they first meet. Somehow that's ok, but requiring a specific physical gift or money isn't. "

Are you serious? You really can't tell the difference? If they were only requiring subs to dress a certain way, then they would be dommes not prodommes.

"but one browse thru Collarme.com will more than amply prove this theory flatly incorrect. "

Or the phone book, or the newspaper, or the online "escort" directories.

"To categorize sexual relations as purely sexual intercourse especially when we're dealing with such highly sexed people, is being purposefully ambiguous. "

It also being ignorant (or boring if you prefer) of possible sexual activities and the available prostitutes.

"i'm still trying to figure out why it's okay to charge $60 for 10 minutes of parasailing but not okay to ask for a financial tribute for an hour's BDSM session?"

It is ok to ask for the tribute for bdsm, for those prostitutes offering such a service. The problem arises when they get upset about the description of their transaction because they have a negative image of other sex workers. Or when they try to hide there trade behind illogical ideas about screening or comparisons to doctors.

"i've always found it interesting how some people would offer judgment on things that have absolutly no effect on their lives."

Really? You find it interesting that people on a chat board have something to say about things which don't really effect them? Is this the first one of these boards you've ever seen? I thought that was pretty much the norm?

"bottom line on any of that is - if you feel like a whore... you're a whore! (or man-whore) - if you want to feel like one... more power to ya! "

Actually you're not a whore (prostitute, sex worker, whatever) until your paid for a sexual service. And no matter how you feel about it, you're still a whore (prostitute, sex worker, whatever). It is the business not the internal feeling which earns the title.

"so guess what - fellow masturbaters, fornicators and all us sinners alike - you're in the same hand-basket as the prostitute the slut and the whore."

Only in terms of that mythology and it's sins, not job titles.

"so perhaps you should take a good look in the mirror ... take out your moral compass, turn it over and see *who* made it."

The morality is coming from those who hide or rename their profession because they have problems with words. There is no morality in the words used to describe concepts, people bring the morality with them.

(in reply to empuser999)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/13/2007 5:38:43 AM

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no this isn't the first bb i've seen in my life - i was there for bbs' when they died - i still find it amazing. every time.

also i'm not saying the bible is or isn't a myth - but it's effect on the general bias of the populace is certainly not myth - it's fact. so what i'm saying is that people are generally so willing to say things and quote things when they have no idea what they mean. especially morality as it stems from the bible... but there are other examples too.

"i know kung fu" - is a good example - kung fu means to attain great skill with great sacrifice. "wu shu" is martial arts. yet everybody is content to say kung fu = kicking butt. when kicking butt has nothing to do with martial arts in the first place. so it's two for one.

so... prostitution is bad or wrong... but sex before marriage is fine. i'm saying the most likely place one gets the opinion that prostitution is bad is either directly or indirectly connected to bible teachings (what that has to do with "myth" is apparantly beyond my comprehension) but that same book says sex before marriage is just as wrong. yet in our society the latter is generally acceptable while the former is not. why is that? someone decided that one was less of a problem than the other at some point. and the majority agreed and the next batch of moral compasses came with that add on.

this is why i say look at the maker of your own moral compass - because you should know *how* it was made and why you are using it.

if you ask someone to call you a whore... and they do it... or you can look in the mirror and say "i sure am a whore arn't i!? yes i am!" then you're a whore!
sure you could say "well no your not because... and go webster's on said whore..." but they're still able to look back in the mirror and say: "curiousexplorer doesn't think you're a dirty whore *point at mirror* but i know you... and you are a whore!" and guess what. he/she's right. can you prove it to society.. perhaps not till you fit the literal term but that's not the point i'm trying to make...

hunter adams, a brilliant doctor. believed that everybody in his clinic was a doctor, and everybody was a patient. he still knew that going to school and getting the education could make you a knowledgable person, equipped to care for people better perhaps than an uneducated one. but believing that you were put on the earth to help people and make them well is what being a doctor is all about. that's a belief - it has nothing to do with terms or language, it's a calling - and people met that calling before there was a legally defined profession.

curiousexplorer - you're talking about language - i'm talking about history and beliefs

apples and oranges why are we comparing? they're both fruit arn't they?

arn't we free to believe what we want? especially if the only ones hurt or offended by our actions and beliefs are those who would choose to be...

(in reply to curiousexplorer)

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