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Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:38:04 AM

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Good day, forum readers. I had a conversation with a few friends this week and something they asked me was profound enough for me to ponder it. And, as I like to think with other people, I figured I'd post this to the Forums. I'm not posting this to the Ask a Mistress/Master area because it affects us as a whole, by perception. I ask that people not send flames, as this is a legitimate query from some folks who are relatively new and seeking answers. The question I was asked is:

"If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/giggilo? In both cases you are giving something of value just for the pleasure of their company."

That one threw me for a loop. I'd never thought of it that way, really, as I don't ask for tribute. I LOVE meeting new people. So, I thought I'd put it out to the forums to discuss, rationally, so I can show the thread to the questioners.

Master Darkmoon

P.S.
As a side note, this is my 25th posting, so I lost my Vanilla Cone. lol (well, I thought I'd lose my cone)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:43:38 AM

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Simple, there is no difference. They all use you for your money and all of them try to justify it in some way, shape or form. But when it comes down to it, a whore is a whore. Male, dominatrix or whatever term someone wants to use, it's all the same.

_____________________________

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Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:47:33 AM

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If your question were about cash tribute, I would see your point.

Tribute is not necessarily a monetary gift. Actually, tribute used to be something much different. It was considered a token gift, much like flowers or candy, often brought by an old fashioned vanilla date.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:49:39 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
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1. You have zero hope of not being flamed when you start a thread like this.

2. Clearly, you don't have any understanding of how Dommes, pro or lifestyle, are constantly under barrage by men who want us to engage in kink with them with no regard to what we want. It has nothing to do with wanting to "have the pleasure of our company" which would imply perhaps coffee or dinner and a movie. No, they want us to drop everything and engage in whatever explicit fantasy they've concocted.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:50:56 AM

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A sex worker is one who though pre agreement trades sexual services for money. I don't have any problem with this, however if the person doing it has a problem being a sex worker then maybe they should stop.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:56:00 AM

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Can you imagine taking the tremendous courage to ask out a vanilla woman. To be told that unless you buy her a bottle of Cocoa Channel, she wont go with you on a date?
You'd walk in the other direction. Why is it different for a Dom/Domme?
Tribute is the nice word for 'pay me' in goods if not coin.
just less honest.
Now all you have to decide is if you want to pay. If the answers yes, go for it. But go professionally pro, not in the closet pro who takes tributes. That way, the service that you buy, is more likely to meet your needs.
little1

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:57:31 AM

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You are always going to pay for sex, some way or another. I don't call it "prostitution" until it means 'leave the cash on the nightstand."

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(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 6:59:43 AM

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Ms. Sonnet Marwood

1) I'm asking the question for others, not myself. While I have an opinion on the matter, I wanted to give the people I am helping more than just MY opinion, so they had an understanding of the issues involved.
2) I asked it about MEN as well as women.
3) I, unlike you it seems, feel the majority of Forum posters are Mature adults.

Lady Pact

I know persons of Red Lantern persuausion who accept gifts instead of cash. I can say the same on the Male side as well.

Master Darkmoon

(in reply to ICGsteve)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:09:23 AM

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There is a big difference, given that the tribute isnt payment for any form of service but rather a means to sort the sheep from the goats, in a realm where there are plenty of goats and not many sheep. Goats are the guys who basically just want to get their rocks off and anyone will do, which is hardly very complimentary. A guy willing to provide tribute (not necessarily in money either) demonstrates a more serious interest in my opinion - its just a shame that some "dommes" abuse it. Think of it though, in the same way as in more normal settings a guy might buy flowers for the lady he admires for a chance to talk with her.

There is also a problem in the idea that gifting something to someone for their company is prostitution. Again, if a guy makes a date with a lady for a meal out and he pays for the meal, does that make her a prostitute? Of course not. If someone visits me in my home and I provide coffee and a cigarette or two, does that make them a prostitute? Of course not.

To me its fairly clear; its only prostitution if there are sexual acts provided in exchange for payment, and in my limited experience, I've yet to hear of any pro-domme who might fall into the category of prostitution given that definition. Pro dommes provide erotic services yes, but not sexual - at least if theyre sensible.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to ICGsteve)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:14:21 AM

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Well, here is my take on the subject.

I was a ProDomme for many years. I provided a service for a fee. This was not a sexual or not even always a pleasurable experience for me-- just a "job". Submissives came to me with a request for certain acts that they wanted/desired/needed. They paid me for my knowledge/skill/talents and most of all, for my time. I did not have sex with my clients. Period. No exceptions. It was always strictly a business deal and transaction. Nothing more and nothing less. If I saw one of my clients in the vanilla world, I acted as if I never knew them. I never betrayed any confidentiality.

I am no longer a ProDomme. Now I am only wishing for a relationship with a D/s (BDSM) dynamics. Now this is about what is pleasurable to the both of us. I am searching for that all-consuming love and caring that is an inheirent need in me.

I receive many requests every day from subbies that want certain things, or just tell me that they want to be my slave/servant/whatever. I usually respond and tell them that I am looking for something different than they are. I get emails begging for contact. Most go to the delete bin.

If one wants my time and me to perform a service for THEM, then they have to pay me just like you pay any other service provider. You don't call up a lawyer from the phone book and just tell them that because they are a lawyer and you need a case handled in court that they should do it. You have to make an appointment, see if they can handle your needs and then you pay them (dearly) for their expertise. No difference at all here.

If I were searching for a Dom to come and perform certain acts for my pleasure, I would expect to pay him some tribute for his time and talent.

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:19:08 AM

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As someone who has charged for sex, it is prostitution, pure and simple. If you are in it for gains of the purse rather than the heart, you are a prostitute. However, I have always thought it a noble profession, certainly up there with being a doctor or a teacher.

(in reply to MamaDomme)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:25:35 AM

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quote:

"If a Dominant, be they male or female, demands tribute to meet with them at all... how are they different from a prostitute/gigolo?

Darkmoon,
It's not, but people need a regular dose of rationalization in their day. Money, gifts, bartered service required in exchange for BDSM activities or sexual service is, pragmatically, no different than prostitution.

"Not that there is anything wrong with that."

Consider the old joke.

A man goes up to a well dressed woman at a hotel bar. He says to her; "How about coming up to my room and having sex with me?" She looks at him with an insulted look and says; "NO!"

He looks at her again and says; "Okay - would you come up to my room and have sex with me if I gave you $1 Million?". She looks at him, smiles and says; "Well in that case - okay!".

The man asks; "Would you come up for $25.00?". Once again insulted the woman says; "What do you think I am a prostitute?!" He replies; "We've already established that - we're now just negotiating price."

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/11/2007 7:36:36 AM >

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:34:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As someone who has charged for sex, it is prostitution, pure and simple. If you are in it for gains of the purse rather than the heart, you are a prostitute. However, I have always thought it a noble profession, certainly up there with being a doctor or a teacher.

teehee--- I agree Michael. It is a fabulous and noble profession!!!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:42:05 AM

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In the sex worker industry, there can be (but often isn't) a difference between an escort and a prostitute. An escort, to me, implies that you pay for thier company. A prostitute is paid for physical contact (i.e. sexual acts). A Dom who asks for tribute is really neither of these things, in my mind. It's a fetish just like any other thing. There are a lot of people, usually men interacting with Fem Doms, who just get off on financial domination/servititude. Often, sex never comes into play...and sometimes not even company.

Master Fire

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(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:42:27 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eldritchdancer

3) I, unlike you it seems, feel the majority of Forum posters are Mature adults.

Actually, it's just experience from being around here longer than you appear to have been. Such posts almost always go down in flames, because there will always be those who will wade in and start dropping personal insults rather than discussing the issue rationally or be able to leave it at "hey, if you want to do that - go for it. If you don't - then don't".

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:45:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

A sex worker is one who though pre agreement trades sexual services for money. I don't have any problem with this, however if the person doing it has a problem being a sex worker then maybe they should stop.

I agree with this.
I have worked as a professional Mistress and I accept I was a sex worker. I was not having sex with clients but I was doing things to them that could be deemed as sexual.

I think prostitute is a little too specific, after all, pole dancing girls dance to bring on sexual arousal in men as do models that pose for porn pictures or even a bit of titillation in a mainstream magazine.
Some people will deem all of this as prostitution, some will call us a whore (that’s always said with scorn) I would deem it as being a sex worker.
I was more than happy for people to call me a prostitute when I worked as a pro Mistress but would always remind them that I was a high class one!!!

(in reply to ICGsteve)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:56:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

1. You have zero hope of not being flamed when you start a thread like this.

2. Clearly, you don't have any understanding of how Dommes, pro or lifestyle, are constantly under barrage by men who want us to engage in kink with them with no regard to what we want. It has nothing to do with wanting to "have the pleasure of our company" which would imply perhaps coffee or dinner and a movie. No, they want us to drop everything and engage in whatever explicit fantasy they've concocted.

When it becomes THIS much of a bother... why even do it then? "just say no".

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:58:09 AM

vield

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I can see this topic is going to get a LOT of attention.

Like most things in life, it is necessary to carefully define the terms being used so others will be better able to understand your point of view. One must remember that no matter how clearly you define your views, some others will not agree.

If one considers prostitution a negative part of life and they consider BD/SM a negative part of life it will be logical for that person to look for similarities between them.

If a person pays me to teach them to splice a rope they may do bondage with, that could be called prostitution as I am selling my services. Is it still prostution if they use the rope to secure a boat's anchor? How about if they get lucky sexually while on the boat. In all cases i still sold them my services to make the rope up.

What if they work in a clinic providing therapy by prescription to persons with sexual difficulties, some will call this prostitution.

In most states in the US there are laws defining what the government considers is or is not prostitution. One can take the position that if the law calls a certain paid act prostitution, then it is. If law there does not call it prostitution one can agree it is not. The laws do vary a lot.

Are all sex workers prostitutes, including phone sex operators, strippers, porn stars, models, erotic artists? We can find LOTS of arguments from many sides about this.

I feel that all honest sex workers are an asset to the community, whether or not the services they provide interest me or are legal or not.

Are we all whoring ourselves out every day that we allow an employer to purchase our services for $$?

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As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 7:59:13 AM

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I keep reading where the ladies (OR gentleman) that require a tribute say it seperates the game players from the serious submissives. Honestly, i can't see how this could work, at least not in the way they say. To me, requiring a tribute could only ATTRACT the game players. A sub sees a profile (or learns in conversation) that a dom/me requires a tribute, so he/she contacts that dominant and agrees to give/pay whatever the tribute is. He/she meets the dominant, and gives them the tribute At that point the sub has fulfilled their part of the contract, and now it is the dominants turn. Assuming the dominant is honorable they then give the submissive a session, after which they both have fulfilled their part of the contract and the submissive goes his/her merry way. No strings. Just pay the price, play the game and go home.

On the "other" side is the submissive that is looking for something more serious and long lasting. When they see "tribute required" it looks like one of two things to them, either it is a business deal or a scam, neither of which is the kind of thing they are looking for so they keep looking. That is not to say that some serious subs won't pay-to-play just to be able to fulfill their need to submit.

Admittedly, this is all only my opinion based on my own experience, but in reading the posts i do believe that a lot of other subs have similar feelings. Not everyone will see it this way, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

In answer to the OP, in my own opinion anyone that REQUIERS a tribute (assuming it is not a scam) is looking to make a business deal. I wouldn't call them a prostitute unless sex is involved, but giggilo, for those that say they are NOT pro, might be a good term since they require some type of compensation for their time.

And just for the record, i have no problem what-so-ever with pro-domination. I think it definitely fills a need, They just need to call it what it is. If you REQUIRE a payment, no matter what term you use, then you are a pro.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: Pro-stitute? (no flames please) - 5/11/2007 8:00:42 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
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quote:

When it becomes THIS much of a bother... why even do it then? "just say no".

I have a pretty thick skin :-)

However, I do think that it's often an ignored cause of why a lot of women want tribute to help sort through the masses.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to LotusSong)

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