RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 2:32:54 AM

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Ed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Thing is to start small I think. Don't start with particle physics, there are no analogies on which to draw. There is no common ground with the common Man. It is esoteric in nature and thus needs to be held back. Use simpler subjects, something about cars or something, something they can comprehend. When you make them say "Hmmmmmmm", that is an achievement.

T

there is a little book called, alice in quantumland, which provides plenty of relatively simply analogies to explain particle physics. many people are familiar with alice in wonderland, so it kinda helps. you might take a look at it, and how it explains things to get an idea of how to bring some things to a level of understanding that others might "get." best of luck with it.

edited to add that i'm only too familiar with watching a highly gifted child (higher iq than you) try to explain matters of particle physics and more to 3rd graders and their teacher, and the frustration as the teacher could in no way understand what the child was saying and presenting, even thought the child had "dumbed it down" to a level that was thought would be understandable by all. to say the child was unhappy is putting it mildly. it's not an easy road to hoe, and peers are extremely few. finding ways to bring things down levels is a learned thing, and will help some. again, i wish you well with all you've to deal with.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/24/2007 2:43:13 AM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 2:45:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
And I wrote a paper on nuclear power plants to an audience who didn't know the difference between an atom and molecule last semester. Got an A on it. Technology isn't hard to explain in a simple sense, my friend.

Never know, just because they didnt rip apart your presentation is hardly a sign they didnt know what you were talking about.

That and i do not think you realize, (as most dont), who you are comparing yourself to.

Nikola tesla was an absolute genius that i doubt you are qualified to dust off the mans shoes.

If you asked me who was brighter hands down tesla was brighter than einstien.

Imagine a man who for 30 years created "new" and unheard of technology and all his inventions based on that technology worked first time out of the box.

Here is a man who created an earth quake in new york, wireless power transmission, the flourescent bulb, had a plan to provide free energy to the world via his wireless transmitter.

He had designs for star trek weapons in the early 1900's, a "death ray", that the us did not take serious till he died anyway, and a 250 mile radius impenetratable "shield" that nothing could get through.

This is late 1800's to early 1900's! The man has something to the tune of 800 patents to his name every one of them "new" cutting edge technology in their day.

The russians spent years and finally in the 70's got his "death ray" sort of working.

Most self proclaimed genius's of today are clueless as to how he could have done it, maybe even you.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 8:13:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Mental illness is a deviation from usual characteristics with relation to behavior. This actually definition is one that psycologists are phobic to bring up in relation to some other topics.

Why? Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill. It goes to highlight the prejustice of the label, so those who know it, hoping to keep their knowledge on the subject, and, hence, themselves, perceived as more valuable, surpress this issue.

How do you explain your inept usage of the English language? Being a genius, you surely are aware of it. Is your poor syntax and grammar due to neurological or organic problems or are you just lazy? Please "dumb down" your response as much as possible for me. Thanks.

Bob

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 8:40:51 AM

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Read Pirsig's "Lila".

Genius is Insanity. Insanity is not always Genius.

To someone +3 SD, the 'normal' and the six sigma types are about equally perplexing. Genius often loves perplexion.

To Norm (NORM!), -3 SD and +3 SD are also equally perplexing.
Norm is not a big fan of perplexion.

but everyone is stupid, just in different subjects.

Before you criticize, walk a mile in their moccasins,
then you'll be a mile away and they will be barefoot :)

(in reply to DesertRat)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 9:13:20 AM

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General response ...

I dispute the entire notion of IQ, levels of intelligence, and such. To me, they are scientific measures, in a science that is constantly changing.

I've taken several IQ tests, and never once left thinking that they were a proper means to measure intelligence. I have never scored all that high, by the way.

At thirteen, when I came to live with this family, one of the first things they did was send me to a summer course to teach advanced study habits. When you combine this with the insistance that in this family, less than top grades are not acceptable ... the result is predictable.

Last summer, I tried to remodel my bedroom, including tiling the floor. I read, and studied and practiced, but couldn't get the tiles straight or level. A month after I finished, the tiled started to come loose. The whole job looked like crap. We hired two guys to come in and redo the job. I watched them work, and it became obvious that when it comes to tile, they had the genius, I didn't have.

Long war around the question, but my answer is that nobody, and everybody is a genius, depending on what they are doing at the time.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 9:56:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
General response ...

I dispute the entire notion of IQ, levels of intelligence, and such. To me, they are scientific measures, in a science that is constantly changing...

... they had the genius, I didn't have...

...my answer is that nobody, and everybody is a genius, depending on what they are doing at the time.

That's what I think, too. And this just came to mind: Did Einstein declare himself a genius? From what I've read, he seems to have seen himself as gifted, but otherwise quite ordinary. Did Beethoven refer to himself as a genius? Newton?

Bob

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:06:12 AM

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the creator of the atom bomb later regrettted it.

whoever said 95% scambling aver 5% has it right on!

i have told freinds not to try to figure me out- as it can not be done.

having been born at the end of the baby boom - i was taught to question authority. now you dont dare.

also- the vietnam war produced a huge burst of artisitic creativity. i see not much per iraq.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:24:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curiouslord
Nope. I can just tie it to the DSM through a long arguement I haven't provided. (I doubt anyone would get it anyway.)

.........well, it's either in the DSM or it isn't. How come this thread is moving towards a conclusion that all geniuses are arrogant? Doubting that anyone would get some argument or other is a failure of imagination, not a sign of high intelligence.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:46:37 AM

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quote:

Mental illness is a deviation from usual characteristics with relation to behavior. This actually definition is one that psycologists are phobic to bring up in relation to some other topics.

Why? Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill. It goes to highlight the prejustice of the label, so those who know it, hoping to keep their knowledge on the subject, and, hence, themselves, perceived as more valuable, surpress this issue.

Not true. There's a distinction between 'intelligence' and 'sanity' and they are evaluated by different instruments. To say that someone who scores higher than average on an iq test is mentally ill would be the same as saying someone who below average on an iq test is mentally ill. Mental retardation is not a mental illness and neither is genius.

Iq is a norm referenced measure which compares the performance of an individual to a normal population. "Normal" here is a statistical concept. You're confusing statistical and behavioral normalcy. The two are different. They don't use normative assessments when diagnosing mental illness.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:54:16 AM

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Philosphy, the conclusion seems to be that Self Identified Geniuses are arrogant. Apperantly us dumb annimals are unable to grasp thier greatness, so they must tell us.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:01:49 AM

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I get the idea that CuriousLord is mostly pulling chains.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:11:44 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I get the idea that CuriousLord is mostly pulling chains.

Especially his own...

~stef

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:22:59 PM

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Meh, don't worry. I know I'm a genius by definition, and a pretty smart guy. It's something I acknowledge and not quite ashamed enough to hide, despite how badly you get flamed for saying such things. But, all the same, I don't feel the need to compare myself to historical figures. I don't feel the need to say, "Haha, I'm smarter than {you/[random historical figure]/[random political figure]}."

Honestly, I'd be very happy to be normal. Don't get me wrong- I don't want to become stupid- I just want other people to become smarter. At both work, and in my freetime, I spend all of it teaching.. even on here!

Anyhow, you can't take Basic Electronics I in your freshmen year without hearing a ton about Telsa. Or play Red Alert- a favorite game back when I was little (I'll rant about it later).

If I had to guess, though I haven't done the research, I'd say Telsa was probably brighter than Einstein. Einstein, as far as geniuses go, wasn't top-tier (don't take this as bragging- neither am I). I think Telsa was shy of it by slimmer margin. Einstein's well known for his achomplishments.

I'd dare say Edison wasn't was bright as either. Hell, he may've not even been a genius. The man worked his ass off. That's how he did things. Not lazy, like me, where I spent 99.9% of my life hiding from any semblence of thought, or even like Einstein, who sort of spent some of his free time doing it.

One must remember, though, geniuses didn't come up with the scales to measure their intelligence. Most aren't so vain. Why give a damn? It's what you do with it. A lot never do anything. Almost all squander it. But, anyhow, my point being, the more intelligent you are, the more strange your thought patterns seem to others. Those who study something try to relate it to their own experiences. Gifted people are trying to bring the genius-level research to their own level.

Also, geniuses are the very, very smart people. But there's major tiers. I tremble to consider it, though I would believe that, at some point, somone was probably smarter than me in the same way I'm smarter than average. I can't begin to comprehend the chaos in such a mind. The sheer magnitudes of complexity and the utter pain of disillusionment. Such a fellow likely spent all of his days at a bar, drinking himself stupid, until eventually dying, assuming he made it that far.

But, that's only a guess. Such an intelligent fellow may've found some magical way of ascending to some greater level of existence. Or, perhaps, the human mind can't go to such a limit. What is the practical limit of a mind, my friend?

Ah wells. I'm ranting. Have a good one.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:25:59 PM

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Yeah ... but can you lay floor tile?

If not ... then STFU.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:29:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Mental illness is a deviation from usual characteristics with relation to behavior. This actually definition is one that psycologists are phobic to bring up in relation to some other topics.

Why? Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill. It goes to highlight the prejustice of the label, so those who know it, hoping to keep their knowledge on the subject, and, hence, themselves, perceived as more valuable, surpress this issue.

How do you explain your inept usage of the English language? Being a genius, you surely are aware of it. Is your poor syntax and grammar due to neurological or organic problems or are you just lazy? Please "dumb down" your response as much as possible for me. Thanks.

Meh, sorry if I'm coming off as arrogant.

Well, two things, I suppose. One: English isn't my strong suit. Moreover, I use a different langauge in my head. It slips through at times, if you see my posts were I write with [ / ]'s and {,}'s as modifiers ([,]'s being varients and {,}/{/}'s being sets ({,} is proper, {/} is common)).

Then, there's my spelling. This isn't dumbed down. Some of my spelling mistakes are simply typos.. I can't claim to care enough about typos to correct unless they compromise a word (and some are dyslexic, where I simply put a word in another's place). Then there's the fact I don't know that much spelling. I'm a good thinker, but not so great at memorization. Plus I had to acknowledge I'm still human and can only remember so much. If I stick to remembering only spellings, then that detracts from the time, enrergy, and space I could've used in learning other things.

Still, inept? I thought I was speaking common relatively well. How might I improve?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:33:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I get the idea that CuriousLord is mostly pulling chains.

Especially his own...

Maybe. But wouldn't it be more fun to test me? Talk about things, ask questions?

I mean, assuming I actually am a genius, I could answer some things about life you've been long wondering.
If I'm not, you could have a pretty big laugh at the idiot who's pretending to make people on a message board think he's smart.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:35:32 PM

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Here you go. :P

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:35:37 PM

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"the more intelligent you are, the more strange your thought patterns seem to others"

....but so do those who are less intelligent than the average, as does anyone from a culture sufficiently different to the observers. Mere strangeness of thought pattern is not a definition of insanity.

"at some point, somone was probably smarter than me in the same way I'm smarter than average. I can't begin to comprehend the chaos in such a mind. The sheer magnitudes of complexity and the utter pain of disillusionment. Such a fellow likely spent all of his days at a bar, drinking himself stupid, until eventually dying, assuming he made it that far."

...here, i think, you give something away of your own dilemma. Intelligence does not make you happy, sad or anything in between. It is how one employs such intelligence that matters. Taking responsibility for it and accepting the consequences.
A teacher that suggests that the inevitable end of intelligence is misery is not much of a teacher.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:55:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"the more intelligent you are, the more strange your thought patterns seem to others"

....but so do those who are less intelligent than the average, as does anyone from a culture sufficiently different to the observers. Mere strangeness of thought pattern is not a definition of insanity.

Context is with regards to an above-average person in earnest.

Hell, an alien could be super-smart, allowing it to emulate humans more effectively with it's intelligence, also rebuking the point when not applied in context.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"at some point, somone was probably smarter than me in the same way I'm smarter than average. I can't begin to comprehend the chaos in such a mind. The sheer magnitudes of complexity and the utter pain of disillusionment. Such a fellow likely spent all of his days at a bar, drinking himself stupid, until eventually dying, assuming he made it that far."

...here, i think, you give something away of your own dilemma. Intelligence does not make you happy, sad or anything in between. It is how one employs such intelligence that matters. Taking responsibility for it and accepting the consequences.
A teacher that suggests that the inevitable end of intelligence is misery is not much of a teacher.

Sort of. Would you be happy if you were born, as a human, into a family of monkeys? Where almost everyone in the world was a monkey? They squabled over the choice bananas and through feces at eachother all day, and most of the things you felt were completely incommunicable?

This is a bit of an exeragation, but my point is, intelligence just doesn't mean the maximum you can think at. It also implies the average. And most people can't relate to me or my average thoughts. So, yes, I'm quite miserable.

I'm having an angsty period. When I get over it, I'll just leave and start doing my work again, trying to make something of life.

I mean, freaking hell, most of the damn world believes that there's some supernatural forces out there, and a fair fraction believe that such supernatural forces are benevolent beings who devote their existences to us, despite us being less than insects before them, and will grant some illusionary version of us immortality after we die. And most of those don't even realize how utterly, repulsively dumb it is. Sorry.. I'm going to end up ranting on stupid things people do.

Anyhow, point being, there's not much community in the world for some. So it's easy to withdraw into one's studies, becoming a nerd of epic proportions, and justify one's existence with discovery. I may end up having to do that.. but it seems like a sad way to go. People a thousand years from now will remember Hawkings. I can't claim, though, to envy his quality of life. And I certainly don't want to be that scientist who comes up with the stuff that makes people ridicule, the lynch him, only to be revered by their ancestors hundreds of years later once they've gotten over it.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 1:15:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Mental illness is a deviation from usual characteristics with relation to behavior. This actually definition is one that psycologists are phobic to bring up in relation to some other topics.

Why? Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill. It goes to highlight the prejustice of the label, so those who know it, hoping to keep their knowledge on the subject, and, hence, themselves, perceived as more valuable, surpress this issue.

How do you explain your inept usage of the English language? Being a genius, you surely are aware of it. Is your poor syntax and grammar due to neurological or organic problems or are you just lazy? Please "dumb down" your response as much as possible for me. Thanks.

Meh, sorry if I'm coming off as arrogant.

Well, two things, I suppose. One: English isn't my strong suit. Moreover, I use a different langauge in my head. It slips through at times, if you see my posts were I write with [ / ]'s and {,}'s as modifiers ([,]'s being varients and {,}/{/}'s being sets ({,} is proper, {/} is common)).

Then, there's my spelling. This isn't dumbed down. Some of my spelling mistakes are simply typos.. I can't claim to care enough about typos to correct unless they compromise a word (and some are dyslexic, where I simply put a word in another's place). Then there's the fact I don't know that much spelling. I'm a good thinker, but not so great at memorization. Plus I had to acknowledge I'm still human and can only remember so much. If I stick to remembering only spellings, then that detracts from the time, enrergy, and space I could've used in learning other things.

Still, inept? I thought I was speaking common relatively well. How might I improve?

If you were so intelligent then you wouldn't being make such idiotic mistakes.

quote:

CuriousLord
if you see my posts were I write with [ / ]'s and {,}'s as modifiers ([,]'s being varients and {,}/{/}'s being sets ({,} is proper, {/} is common)).

If you had the capability of actually using your intelligence instead of feebly trying to point it out to all....Maybe people might say, "Wow, that guy sure is smart!!" Instead, I think most folks out here wonder what deep inadequacies must be in play for someone to so desperately feel the need to self promote themselves in such a manner.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/24/2007 1:16:17 PM >

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