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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 4:39:18 PM   
justheather


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True genuis recognizes that there are multiple intelligences.

Doing well on one particular test on one particular day is not an indicator of a Great Mind.
It is an indicator of the ability to do well on one particular test on one particular day.

Edited to add this isnt in response to RealOne, he just happened to be above me in the queue.


< Message edited by justheather -- 5/23/2007 4:40:24 PM >


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 4:45:05 PM   
girl4you2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: latexbarbiets

I have a question, if a subbie has a genius IQ(160 or so). What affect might that have on finding a compatible partner/Dom/Domme? As one of the above posters stated geniuses tend to overthink or constantly dwell on things, which would affect finding a partner.  Guess my main question is have any subbies with genius IQ have problems in relationships? Especially in a Dom/sub relationship.

Barbie


well, i'd imagine it's about the same as it is in any kind of relationship. as an example, richard feynman had a bit of trouble with his relationships with women when he was older, but then again, he had that early one with his wife that kinda screwed up the ones that followed. i don't think it had much to do with him overthinking the ones that came later on. he was pretty busy doing other stuff then.

one's iq doesn't necessarily determine whether or not one looks to find one of similar iq. if one does, it just means the pool is quite a bit smaller to look in. one might think of it in the same way as one would a particular "kink" or preference. does any one of those make it harder to find a suitable partner? i'd suspect if one were to conduct a study, one would find similar results regarding iq.

as to how one functions within a given relationship, it's very dependent on many more things than just iq. iq alone doesn't determine social functioning.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/23/2007 4:51:07 PM >


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 5:50:52 PM   
CuriousLord


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I've had relationships from all different IQ levels.  Most commonly, I've looked for very bright slaves.

140's-ish

Only one slave here before.  She was bright- terribly bright.  I'm used to people seeming shallow and hallow in contrast.. but she was some significant fraction.  She was also, largely, without peers.  She embraced madness that came with such a condition.  Weakness.  I discarded her after seeing she was un[able/willing] to fix it.

I'd note, about this one, that her madness would only be perceivable to someone surficiently intelligent.  She had many masks.  She is easily able to simulate a perfectly sane gifted person and normally did so for the fun and escape of it.

She was also difficult to read.  I couldn't see through her as easily as others because, well, I'm used to people being shallow.  So she'd adopt a more-shallow-than-she-actually-was persona and emulate it.  Eventually, I'd see the inconsistencies and call her on it.  She'd normaly act like she didn't know what I was talking about.  I would have to prove it before she'd confess.  I doubt I ever knew her true extents.

I normally refer to her as a "slave", as opposed to a slave, because she only played the role of a slave, but wasn't one.

I never learned how well, specifically, she understood me.

From her, I learned some tips and tricks about appearing to be normal to others, including speaking common and disguising thought and intention.  She wasn't that far below me, yet spent most of her life studying such things.  Through this, she was in a unique position to actually offer me things I hadn't considered before.

120-130-ish

One sub in this range before.  Bright, normally academicish. One spent all of her time studying Marxism.  I believe she loved to beat her head against the brickwall in talking to me over views.. she always grew because of it.

She was able to get the gists of ideas and detect some of my general emotions when not masked.

The slave I had in this range is my current slave.  As I'm jealous of sharing mine, I'm not going to comment on her at this time.

Normal ranges

Most subs and slaves have been normal.  I couldn't relate to most.  Normal people have natural IQ's not overly different from domesticated animals, in my opinion, with the notable exceptions of speech and fine manual dexterity.  I regard most sub's/slave's in this range as pets.  They were unable to understand my emotions, thoughts, or feelings.

80-ish

I had one borderline-retarded pet/slave before.  She seemed pretty much like a normal person to me (remember, normal people are far closer to retarded than they are to me).  I could read the differences, though, in her heightened inabilities to understand things and slow comprehension rate.  I treated her like a DOS prompt, in many ways, offering only very basic commands.

Funny thing was, though, I still talk to her, before most others.  Mostly, because she calls me constantly and I don't have the heart to send her off.  I think she enjoys that I seem to treat her as more of a person than most do.  She'll rant on to me for hours, and I won't stop her or tell her she's stupid.  She'll listen to me rant, when I'm so inclined, and won't complain about not understanding anything.  I think she just likes the sound of my voice.

She's able to understand- and accept- that her thoughts are nothing next to mine.  She's not afraid to see that I can read her and answer the questions she's thinking about as well as she could understand the answers to.

She was a favored pet for these reasons.  I let go of her after her father talked to me and said he thought it was inappropriate for us to have such a relationship.  I respected his opinion and released her, officially.

Genius-level slaves

I've never had one.  A large part of my reason for being dominant is that I'm tired of having to yield to, even if it's just "acceptance", of idiotic thoughts and opinions.  I follow my path- but I'm not pig-headed about needing to be the leader.  I just know few could keep up.

If a genius-level slave approached me, I do not know how I would react to her.  I'm a pretty good genius, so a lesser genius of a slave would still probably be a slave to me.

An equal?  I don't know.  I'd likely still be a Master, though I doubt I would take such offense to having to respect an intellectual equal as an equal.

A greater mind?  The statistics on how many such minds are greater than mine in such a sense are guesses, at best.  I've never met one.  I've heard of few, and I'm only guessing they may've been such.  I doubt I'd have to worry about this.  I would not sub to a greater mind, as it's contrary to my nature, but I would likely yield to it on many things.  I may even learn to be submissive.

General note

I know I sound like a guy posting "my cock is so huge, I have problems fitting through doors.  This particular door frame is easier, though.. blah blah blah."  Hence, I sound as arrogant as hell.

I'm not going to apologize.  I've very bright- even that's an understatement- and I know it.  I realize this doesn't make me likeable.  And I realize I probably don't sound or look too bright typing like this, but understand I'm trying to type in "English" so people get me.. I'm trying to communicate, and to communicate ideas which are understandable to general people, so I try to keep things plain.  I use lots of analogies as mental aides in this process.

Point being, I may sound arrogant, but this is just being honest.  The subject's on why geniuses seem insane.  So here is part of why I might seem quarky and some of the ways it effects BDSM relationships, as mentioend in the poster I'm replying to.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 5:58:49 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

True genuis recognizes that there are multiple intelligences.

Doing well on one particular test on one particular day is not an indicator of a Great Mind.
It is an indicator of the ability to do well on one particular test on one particular day.


Sort of 'n such.  Termyn8or brought up something that helps understand one's view on this.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

A genius in some cases thinks of the body of knowledge he has as a pyramid, or a lattice, like a crystal structure. If you have a good solid base, the body of knowledge can grow easily. If you do not, growth is inhibited.



Knowledge is a series of apethems, definitions, and trivia.

It seems common people never even establish a base intelligence.  It's freaking horrible.

More intelligent people, seemingly starting around the "gift" range, build a basis, and perhaps even a level or two, magnitude.

A genius often (normally?) has enough levels in most areas to be considered adept in them, and many in their strong suits, reaching levels in fields that even gifted people who devote their lives to studying such will likely never reach.

People* take this the wrong way and start trying to label "kinds" of intelligence.
There isn't such.
There's just areas where people fill in the blanks better than usual.  They appear strong in these areas (and, relatively, are).

 
 
Edit:  *-noted.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/23/2007 5:59:50 PM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 5:59:48 PM   
dcnovice


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<fast reply>

Much madness is divinest sense
To a discerning eye;
Much sense the starkest madness.
’T is the majority
In this, as all, prevails.
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.

-- Emily Dickinson, Poem XI

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:00:55 PM   
dcnovice


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Have we actually established, by the way, that geniuses are indeed more prone to mental illness that the rest of us poor slobs?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:05:43 PM   
CuriousLord


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Mental illness is a deviation from usual characteristics with relation to behavior.  This actually definition is one that psycologists are phobic to bring up in relation to some other topics.

Why?  Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill.  It goes to highlight the prejustice of the label, so those who know it, hoping to keep their knowledge on the subject, and, hence, themselves, perceived as more valuable, surpress this issue.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:10:12 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill.


It's in the DSM?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:10:58 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Have we actually established, by the way, that geniuses are indeed more prone to mental illness that the rest of us poor slobs?


iqwise the smartest man in th eus right now is a bouncer at a bar LOL

i am really not sure there is any "real" correlation between being a genius and iq


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:15:43 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Being a genius is, by definition, mentally ill.


It's in the DSM?


Nope.  I can just tie it to the DSM through a long arguement I haven't provided.  (I doubt anyone would get it anyway.)

One can say that something "is by definition" should they be able to prove equivalence to the generally-accepted definition.  That is what the nature of the argument's about.

(If you're really interested- I'll provide it- but I don't have enough time (or patience) to type it tonight, so it'd likely wait until tommorow.)

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:24:09 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

If you're really interested- I'll provide it


Thanks for offering, but I don't want to waste your time.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 6:45:04 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

If you're really interested- I'll provide it


Thanks for offering, but I don't want to waste your time.


I appreciate it.

The general points of the argument are (since I do feel somewhat obligated to support a claim):
-Geniuses act in different ways from individuals.
-In surficient enough cases, such different mannerisms fall under DSM-specified mental illnesses.  (This is the long part, as I have to look up the DSM, search for specific "illnesses", and then show examples of how geniuses exhibit some of these.  To point out one of such that exists, excessive compulsive disordeer.)
-Geniuses, by virtue of their nature (which has to be elaborated on), are driven to act in some strange manners which the DSM defines as ill, mentioned above.
-A genius, by definition, acts on his intelligence, fulfilling such defintions.
-Conclusion:  DSM defines being a geinus as mentally ill through definition.
(This is sort of the outline.  I appreciate you not asking for the footwork in the entries and specific examples.  :P)

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 9:20:40 PM   
luckydog1


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Curious Lord,  You did refer to being in school in Richmond Va in a previous thread, correct?  VCU?  UR?  Union?  All are pretty low caliber for one of the brightest minds in existance. 

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 10:38:01 PM   
Termyn8or


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"It's also easy to hate people for standing against better interests out of their stupidity.  But I doubt I could explain it to lesser minds."

Perhaps you shouldn't call yourself a genius quite so fast. Perhaps it is a deficiency in your ability to properly express complex concepts.

I have explained a few concepts to people of normal intelligence, when I can I use analogies, but sometimes there is no readily available analogy to use. Case in point, wide spectrum sattelite photography. I had to break it down, there was no other way, no analogy to use.

"What you have to understand is that for example when you see the color green, you might be seeing three, four, five different shades of green. Your eye just mixes them, when they are spectrally observed, it is a whole different story. That is how they can find pot plants in the middle of a corn field without using extreme magnification, and the outer edges of the range exceeed the perceptual range of the human eye, giving even more information".

Years ago a friend had to learn at least basic electronics to complete his education. I guess it worked. In the beginning is Ohm's law.

"Lookit, you got a headlight in your car, it pulls three amps at twelve volts. You got two of them so they together pull six amps. They do this BECAUSE they are four Ohms, and together they are two Ohms. Ohms are not some magical thing, they simply tell the ratio of current to voltage, nothing else. A guy named Ohm figured this out, it is not rocket science".

Later.

"Watts are volts times ohms, therefore those headlights are 36 watts each, and together they are 72 watts". Later I went into series circuits and now the fucker makes more money than me. But I wouldn't want his job, I don't like the environment.But now the guy knows the difference between a sinked or sourced current range, all kinds of shit. I also had to clue him in on a fact they do not really teach in electronics school, that ALL bipolar transistor amplifiers are common emitter. I used that to explain the different properties of different configurations. That you are putting the output in series with the input, but either out of phase or in phase.

This basic shit should be old hat to most genius' but try explaining it. Explain it to someone with absolutely no electronics background whatsoever.

Ven you can do that my friends, I vill allow you into my cirkle of darkKness.

:-)

T

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 10:48:57 PM   
CuriousLord


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It is.  I'm a broken soul.  I'll spare you most of the sob story.  At least I'm not a bar bouncer, right?

I suppose I'm technically considered insane now.  Appropriate, for the threat, no?  The last things I said before a comatose-like break down was was something about a horrible, terrorible truth.  It pains me to think at even a fraction of my possible level.  Perhaps why I preoccupy myself with silly things, like posting constantly on a BDSM board.

You might have noticed my form breaks when I talk about this subject.  Some of the above posts have been editted to remove vulgar content.  All I feel, when I indulge myself and release holding back, is an endless torrent of indescribable pain.  Even to one who may be as articulate as myself.

If you care for the subject, I wrote a thread about it a while back towards exam time- when my failure to study (again, I hate thinking) caused me to need to make it all up in the last hours.  Forcing me to think.  Pushing me closer to a repeat of the breakdown, though no where near so close.. just close enough to break my form.

Excuse me before I get a bit emotional.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/23/2007 11:00:35 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
It's also easy to hate people for standing against better interests out of their stupidity.  But I doubt I could explain it to lesser minds.


Perhaps you shouldn't call yourself a genius quite so fast. Perhaps it is a deficiency in your ability to properly express complex concepts.


Would you propose to explain the color contrasts of a fractical to a blind man who doesn't know math?  I doubt I could in a thread.  Even if that thread was in brial, however you spell it; or books on tape.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I have explained a few concepts to people of normal intelligence, when I can I use analogies, but sometimes there is no readily available analogy to use. Case in point, wide spectrum sattelite photography. I had to break it down, there was no other way, no analogy to use.


And I wrote a paper on nuclear power plants to an audience who didn't know the difference between an atom and molecule last semester.  Got an A on it.  Technology isn't hard to explain in a simple sense, my friend.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or's explanation of wide-spectrum sattelite photography
What you have to understand is that for example when you see the color green, you might be seeing three, four, five different shades of green. Your eye just mixes them, when they are spectrally observed, it is a whole different story. That is how they can find pot plants in the middle of a corn field without using extreme magnification, and the outer edges of the range exceeed the perceptual range of the human eye, giving even more information.


Years ago a friend had to learn at least basic electronics to complete his education. I guess it worked. In the beginning is Ohm's law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or to his freind learning electronics
Lookit, you got a headlight in your car, it pulls three amps at twelve volts. You got two of them so they together pull six amps. They do this BECAUSE they are four Ohms, and together they are two Ohms. Ohms are not some magical thing, they simply tell the ratio of current to voltage, nothing else. A guy named Ohm figured this out, it is not rocket science".

[Later...]

Watts are volts times ohms, therefore those headlights are 36 watts each, and together they are 72 watts.


Later I went into series circuits and now the fucker makes more money than me. But I wouldn't want his job, I don't like the environment.But now the guy knows the difference between a sinked or sourced current range, all kinds of shit. I also had to clue him in on a fact they do not really teach in electronics school, that ALL bipolar transistor amplifiers are common emitter. I used that to explain the different properties of different configurations. That you are putting the output in series with the input, but either out of phase or in phase.

This basic shit should be old hat to most genius' but try explaining it. Explain it to someone with absolutely no electronics background whatsoever.


Again, it's a school subject, designed to be understood.  None of that stuff's very complicated, my friend.

Now, if you can write a thread on the underlying wave nature of reality that dictates relativity and quantum physics to those on this board, I'd be impressed.  Simple stuff to me.  But I can't express it.

Seriously, if you can, I'd like to learn how.  I find myself beating my head against the wall with even simple stuff like relativity 'n particle-wave duality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Ven you can do that my friends, I vill allow you into my cirkle of darkKness.


Freaking dork.
(No worries, dorkishness is teh w00t.)

Edit:
PS- I changed around your quotes.  Hope it works.  Just to make it easier to read.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/23/2007 11:01:54 PM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:09:21 AM   
Termyn8or


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You are a trip. Stick around :-)

It's Braille just so you know, but this comes from someone who misspelled original for about 40 years. I used to spell it 'origional', and it really did look right.

Is it logical for a Man to try hundreds of things that do not work to find the one that does ? Of course when empirical knowledge is lacking or non-existent it is. Thomas Edison did exactly that. Was it he who said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration ? I forgot. I have forgotten alot, I think my mental harddrive is full. I think one day I will learn one more thing and I will forget my name.

If you can't express yourself well enough to teach effectively, that does not mean the intelligence does not exist. Expressing one's self is an art almost, it is exceedingly hard to teach. People must travel the road themselves and arrive at their own solutions, but to do that one must be exposed to people capable in this regard, AND have a venue in which to test and hone their skills.

But one must also have the desire. Look at all the bullshit Stephen Hawkings has to go through to express himself. Let them put your head in a vise and type with your eye. So if you ever think you can't do it, BULLSHIT !

Everybody learns to write from reading. The differeence between some of us and the sheeple is we did alot more of it. I know I did. I had read an encyclopedia before I ever drove, and I drove pretty damn young.

My Parents did not tolerate us asking what a word meant, unless we couldn't find it in the dictionary. But we had to try first, otherwise we got nothing. They taught me to read, at that point it was up to me, as much as I can.

I was never much for grammar. I learned grammar because of the internet actually. I wanted to be able to express myself well enough that people would not dismiss my decisions summarily, as some do.

I have also seen many poorly written posts on all kinds of forums, and no, I do not dismiss them summarily, but I have seen how it obscures the meaning of the poster's idea. I don't want that to happen to me, and that is the main impetus for me to try to be accurate in my words. Of course I fail in that sometimes, oh well.

Thing is to start small I think. Don't start with particle physics, there are no analogies on which to draw. There is no common ground with the common Man. It is esoteric in nature and thus needs to be held back. Use simpler subjects, something about cars or something, something they can comprehend. When you make them say "Hmmmmmmm", that is an achievement.

Because stupidity is a big problem in the world, anything enlightening is positive.

Whatever, it is late. Didn't mean to trail off but............................

Be well.

T

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 12:31:11 AM   
CuriousLord


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No worries about spelling.  I consider spelling trivia- it's good to be able to do well enough, but I don't pride myself in it.  Phonics kid, after all.

There are so things, though, that can't be explain shortly.  Seriously, try the example I brought up.

At the end of my last semester, I walked into my English professor's office.  Basically had a monolog with her.  Eventually, I realized what I needed to do for the workshop group to get my paper.

I trashed it.  All of it.  And ditched most of my research.  I rewrote it with simple ideas.  Simple words.  And it still had the same type of conclusion.

The difference, besides the stated?  I used junk arguments.  Arguments simple enough for novice thinkers to get.  (I'll email you the paper if you'd like to see what I mean.)  An intelligent and educated debater could've trashed the paper I wrote- tearing through it from the numerous holes in it.  But it was appropriate to an audience who just barely grasped it well enough to get it in their quick read.  And beyond their reproach.

Hawkings does this with his books, too.  I've read some of them.. they're "for the masses".  He doesn't actually explain his theories.  He just explains simple perversions of them that would appear to be the theories at first glance, but they're not.  It's the same sort of writing style I used in my paper.

Afterall, if a genius could explain everything to a novice learner in short, why isn't there a text book for ten-year olds that teaches them everything in a two-week intensive course?

Still, I agree every little bit that can be explained helps.  Enough so that I can justify my stupor in this place, answering random posts, to myself well enough to continue it for now.

Give me a week to sober up.  I'm not done hiding.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 1:11:12 AM   
Termyn8or


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"why isn't there a text book for ten-year olds that teaches them everything in a two-week intensive course? "

For the same reason we are not teaching every day. Also, I do not wish to teach a class, I think the whole idea of school is wrong, it existzs for Parents who don't have the time. In the US alot of them are pretty much becoming daycare centers.

One on one teaching can stimulate the child's mind, that is alot harder in a classroom. I am talking something here that is NOT done. Not something that is but I can't do it, they choose no to. A personalized approach, which addresses the child's curiousity is the best approach. I don't think anyone can do much of it to more than one at once.

But reading is one on one. You and the author. And you don't get to interrupt. That is a good thing.

Another seriously effective technique is to guide someone to a conclusion, and then walk them through testing THEIR conclusion, right or wrong. It can be difficult to teach heuristic logic. No doubt. But I think we have to try.

Whatever, now it is REALLY late and I have to work tomorrow, I'll be baaaack.

T

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 1:41:06 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
Yeah, you're a pretty good trip, too.   Stick around.  ;)

I think I'm going to suffer from the over-zealous-parent syndom.  I was ontop of the world as a kid, then fell.  I'm planning on teaching my kids- like my parents did me- and making their childhoods great.  My poor kids.  One of them better end up a genius, 'cause I want one of 'em to learn at the rate I did in childhood, if not better.

Seriously, I've already started a book for them.  A large part of the reason I tutor for a job is to get experience for that time.  (The other part is for the easy money.  15 USD/hr plus frig priveledges in an AC'd enviroment, sitting down and chatting with someone who looks up to you at your leasuire.  Does it get much better as far as parttime jobs for college students go?)

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 40
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