RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:27:50 PM

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Ed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I've rarely found girls to like me for intelligence. I typically downplay it- heavily. Most people hate people being more than just a little smarter than them. To them, you're just a reminder of their flaws. They hate being around you or considering you in earnest.

i gotta go with caitlyn on this one; some girls actually seek out intelligent guys, although not necessarily to manipulate them or in order to be able to dumb down. of course, whilst seeking intelligence, one doesn't need to be told how bright someone is; it's usually something that's easily picked up on.

i think it's about time to call it a night. for me, anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Not so true really.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/24/2007 10:29:02 PM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:31:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

More seriously, can't something be part of reality without being corporeal? Time isn't physical; does that mean it doesn't exist?

Time's an attributed aspect, not something that actually exists. We use it as a device to understand why real things change.

Reality is us- and anything that could effect us. It's the model in the grandest sense.

One could make up a completely different universe. Anything you want. And, according to the Quantum Reality Theory, it exists. Just not in relationship to our own, unless it happens to as circumstance. But anything that does interact with our universe, has, or will, is part of it.

This said, we may not know all of our universe. There may be other dimensions only accessible through worm whole-esque things we don't yet even know how could exist. But they'd be part of our universe.

In the same way, if a God existed, and could actually do something in our universe, then he's part of it.

One COULD argue there's another reality. Capable of perceiving our own, but never interacting with it in any way. One would even, in theory, be correct in saying in one such other reality, we're cloned, our thoughts uploaded, and we go to an afterlife.

However, as being a completely different, arbitrary reality, is it a valid consideration for us? I would dare say not.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:31:39 PM

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Ed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Freaking hate this thread being about me an if who I claim I am half of the time instead of about the subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

fast reply:

i suppose this is kind of a ratty thing to do, but didn't you say this:

i've been a contributor to this, and i kinda gotta agree with you on this; we should put this back on target to the original OP question, and not about you.

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:44:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

i've been a contributor to this, and i kinda gotta agree with you on this; we should put this back on target to the original OP question, and not about you.

Good deal. And I'll try to consider your advice about girls.

The side conversations are neat, though, about theory 'n such.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:44:23 PM

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quote:

Time's an attributed aspect, not something that actually exists. We use it as a device to understand why real things change.

How can we use it if it doesn't exist?

quote:

This said, we may not know all of our universe.

Aren't huge parts of it unknown?

quote:

In the same way, if a God existed, and could actually do something in our universe, then he's part of it.

Couldn't God be bigger than the universe but still affect it. To offer a humble analogy, I once had a pair of goldfish named Nicholas and Alexandra. I fed them and changed the water, having a huge impact on their universe, but I wasn't contained within it.

* * *

Still not sold on your proof, but it's been fun to think about. And now I need to head off to bed.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 10:53:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Time's an attributed aspect, not something that actually exists. We use it as a device to understand why real things change.

How can we use it if it doesn't exist?

Same way we use probabilities. Thinking aides.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

This said, we may not know all of our universe.

Aren't huge parts of it unknown?

Yup. Though I was taking this even further, saying if other diminsions, such as accessible alternate realities, exist. Just to highlight extents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

In the same way, if a God existed, and could actually do something in our universe, then he's part of it.

Couldn't God be bigger than the universe but still affect it. To offer a humble analogy, I once had a pair of goldfish named Nicholas and Alexandra. I fed them and changed the water, having a huge impact on their universe, but I wasn't contained within it.

You are very much part of their universe! The gravity from them effects you and the radiation they give off reaches you.

Their effect on you is relatively negliable- if you ignore the psycological impact. Nonetheless, they do have one, and they thus effect you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Still not sold on your proof, but it's been fun to think about. And now I need to head off to bed.

It's cool, I'm not particularly interested in disillusioning anyone. If you do believe in God, I'd recommend, before considering this any further, that ignorance can be bliss.

It's been good talking to you 'n such. It's great to be able to talk about these sorts of things. Hope you sleep well.

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:10:02 PM

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"Sort of. Would you be happy if you were born, as a human, into a family of monkeys? Where almost everyone in the world was a monkey? They squabled over the choice bananas and through feces at eachother all day, and most of the things you felt were completely incommunicable? "

Valid, but I won't use it in an evaluation of your intelligence CL. You didn't call anyone here anything, and it did say "Would you be happy if".

This comes back to learning to express one's self more effectively. I take alot of pride in the influence I have had on children and young adults, as well as teaching a total novice enough electronics to go and make more money than me !. MF !.

Now CL, I have mailed you about a subject I really want your opinion on, but I am goiing to stay public now. You purport to be a genius, and that may be so. I have scrutinized some of your posts and if you want my opinion, you are significantly more intelligent than most. But if you avail yourself of the time somehow and read alot more of CM, you will find that you are not among dunces.

I pulled a 160 at age 41 or so. Now an IQ is a quotient, so get it through your head, you are not playing with kids here. That's why I gave age.

Based on the first few pages of this thread, I think you would be 160, but remember this a quotient. Every year of your life, with the same knowledge knocks you down a few points. So understand who you are talking to.

Also understand this, people here have been engaging you in peacful, harmonious discussion. Over the years I have found the CM community to not only be a friendly bunch, but intelligent as well, at least on average. I would estimate, that using a mean age for the calculation, most CM members who participate in this forum have at least a 120 IQ. At least.

Like you and I they make typos, but that means shit.

Now back to the genius shit. I mailed you. It is about a different theory of relatyivity, and the model works in my mind. It does not fit with the special theory of relativity however, and modified, could refute it effectrively. I want your response.

Anyone out there want to fuck with a theory that has never been heard before, has been formed by someone not formally trained in the 'sciences'. You think you got knowledge of space and all this stuff ?

Just ONE person ask and will bring the same subject into the forum. Just one. I'll copy the mail if you like. I am not ashamed of (much) anything I write. If it is MY mail to another I can quote it. It is what I recieve they don't want.

It has to do with a different theory of relativity, it is radical, but then what did you expect ?

Dammit. I gotta do a prelim on it.

The core of my theory, my T-modified theory of relativity is thus.

Due to the Doppler effect, objects moving towards you may appear bluer and a shift can be seen in a spectroscope. Now if my theory is correct, I have mailed it to one, and I want my answer, and if the answer is that it is not possible for my theory to be correct, I want to know exactly why.Perhaps that is the acid test.

I'll be baaaaaaaack.

T

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:12:08 PM

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Am I the only one on CM who neither knows his IQ nor cares to?

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:16:13 PM

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heck, i'm memory challenged; i've forgotten what mine is. does it matter?

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maireann croí éadrom i bhfad. is maith an scáthán súil charad. is leor nod don eolach.
got shoes?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:23:27 PM

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Not to me. I'm old enough to know what my brain can do, and what it can't. And to realize the importance of hard work and habits.

Now I really am going to bed.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to girl4you2)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:31:48 PM

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Edit: I'll respond in private later.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/24/2007 11:58:47 PM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:32:18 PM

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We are not insane- everyone else is...

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:32:36 PM

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Here's a different rendition of some of the same thoughts I think I see going on here and some personal views on why this correlation even exists:

"Anything we (humanity) can't collectively comprehend or justify by popular logic must be insane (quite aberrant and/or foolish behaviors or ideas) and those that can comprehend it (AND relate it) must be genius (aberrant fools!)."

I'm NOT admitting that all that are labeled genius are also all labeled insane. I am agreeing and admitting that, just as the intro post proved, there is very possibly a good reason for the correlation. What a concept! Let's tear it apart

I love to study etymology because it gets me closer to the original intent of the word. I enjoy that 'genius' derives from 'genii' which implies a spiritual characteristic. Things are not black/white, right/wrong, easily dissected or quantified or explained. By popular logic, though there are good boundaries established to preserve what exists. I believe there is a reason for this. Separating mental, emotional (call it spiritual if you will), and physical just doesn't seem to work out for anything good in the long run and can be quite disastrous. I can say this, without a doubt why bdsm DOES work for me (I am on a bdsm thread, right?). bdsm to Me is all of all; holistic, not separated. When I begin to separate and quantify, then something reaches levels of percieved genius or insanity. But, I do operate to separate many factors quickly and re-assemble them (sometimes not so quickly) as quite normally as breathing or as simple common sense that dictates when the cow craps - stand upwind, or if there is real danger of real harm - take flight. If quantifying and explaining = genius, I'd rather be labeled average, I think. I'd definitely not like to be paralyzed by over-analyzing it and getting hit like a deer in headlights. If I can always be happy with how I am and others not label me, gee that would be ideal, too. Also, I could care less about a partner's IQ as long as all the balance of all three are comfortable for us the majority of the time.

In the meantime, I really don't want to be seen as anti-social or mentally ill (or anything apart from the herd that might mean harm to me) so, for the most part, I'll just stifle what I think I know. *smile* I'll write it all down as best I can and create wonderful works of art (that would shock and dismay some - especially if one tries to fit me in the commonly accepted norms for similar gender, age, race, nationality, etc.) and when I'm dead, I'll have no choice if they proclaim whatever they will (that is if anything I ever do survives me.) I'll be happy to know I just 'got it out'. Right then, at that moment of creation, I could care less whether anyone else relates to it. If they find it while I'm alive, after all, folks might come after me with pitchforks and fire! But, hey, after I'm dead, post-mortem declaration of genius is on! Maybe, just maybe... I need to be accepted by some others (maybe they think the same thing, how do I know if I don't share?) Well, maybe I'll eek it out just a little so my ego can shine, after all, I am human (and self-centered and narcisstic, etc.) and, yeah, maybe I even need to feel admired for some immediate gratification every once in a while. But, it's all good as long as I don't: 1. hurt myself; 2. hurt others; or, 3. damage property, isn't it? I'm SO glad I can quantify and comprehend and adhere to these three simple rules on the larger scale of great impact. (NO ONE alive does these three things perfectly on every level all the time that I know of, but , yes, some do cause great harm on grand scale because they so severely separate what's meant to be parts of a whole and that's the long-term effects of imbalance I'm referring to.)

On that note, CuriousLord, I might be so inclined to take your 'proofs' that there is no higher power (or god) and raise you an original physics paper that can 'prove' there is an elusive higher intelligence that created and is very much a living and relative part of all that exists as we know it (complete with references and footnotes). Hrm, I might even have an original relativity theory handy that embraces such (my) ego as to define and predict some of the indefinite possiblities that are and could be (but I'm not ready to share that yet.)

But, I digress. I embrace that there is nothing new under the sun and concede that there are simply so many ways to express the same finite observable knowledge, that I am comfortable with knowing that only when I am dead will I stop learning 'what is' on this plane. Perhaps after that, I will have more utilization of the percent of this wonderful unquantifiable human existence that is this soul, with this brain, right now.

Until then, I'll just keep livin' and lovin'.

Best and Peace to everyone,
MissPlease

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/24/2007 11:56:34 PM

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I have a question.

How has being a genius led to you contributing more/less to the human collective knowledge/achievement/invention than your "lesser" counterparts? I'm not asking about learning what others have learned already, that isn't a addition or an achievement. That is nearly equivalent to rote knowledge. I'm not asking about such things as being able to view complex relationships in your head, that have sum effect of nil outside your brain. I'm asking of what makes your intelligence more valuable than a tile installer, in a practical sense, or in a manner that anyone would care about it.

I simply ask this because, though we hold genius up in high regard, it doesn't seem to be "genius" that leads to achievement, or even having a tangible effect on the world. The only constant I've witnessed in turning any level of intelligence into something of worth, is applied constant effort and control.

If that is agreed, then why is genius so revered to begin with?

It would seem to me to be useful, but useless without mental control, and if the topic of the thread holds true in that most people of genius level intelligence fall prey to insanity. Then how is it more productive, as a average compared to your non-genius counterparts, that may not understand the relationship between relativity and quantum theory, but made a nifty new tool that will shave hours off that tile installation? Who is more valuable at the end of the day?

I mean I have nothing against people that are genius, I just don't see any evidence it has been pivotal to anything. The pivotal portion in my view is applied constant controlled intelligence with a singular goal.

The implication is obvious.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 12:09:59 AM

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I know I should probably read through the reams of answers here but...I'm lazy. That said, I think that genius and insanity go hand in hand to create some sort of cosmic balance. Get a gift, get a curse. That's the silly answer.
Of course one can always argue over what is genius and was is insanity.
For example; I'm a card carrying genius http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=10 but I live on disability because I'm also a nutball. On the other hand you could say being a nutball is genius because only insane people can survive the corporate system from my point of veiw. Or something. Someone had a great quote here about it...
*digs around*
I think it's, "cherish the cracked for it is they that let in the light"
Anyway, genius obviously does not ensure success in life. My IQ is 145 and look at me. On the other hand JFK was only 116. So go fig.;-)

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 12:20:49 AM

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As for things moving beyond the doppler effect, velocity would have to be greater than c,

Shit does that mean i will get a speeding ticket while playing with LW's?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 12:38:01 AM

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Consider the universe. Divide it up into quanta- whatever level you like. You can even assume strings are far from elementary. OK
Take the Christian notion of God as being one that has lived forever before making the world and forever since.   This is an inccorect view of Christian Theology. So your Grand Proof is a Strawman Argument. Sutley you have studyied basic critical thinking and formal logic, and know that you can't misdefine the position of your opponent, and then argue against that, and pretend it is a cogent argument. Wide Christian Theology holds that God is a Force that exists beyond our reality, beyond beyond time, not a creature/animal/physical being that has lived before the world and forever.
Consider that, as time goes on forever, all possibilities will be fulfilled.    Lets call this Error B, you make it quite a bit, and as a shortcut in the future I will simply refer to it.  It's a common error among Higher Math thinkers, your used to working with hard data.  Fixed values that you can do math on. You based on your limited observations draw conclusions, and declare them to be absolute? Observation is by definition subjective and incomplete. Error B is placing your subjective opinion as fact and premise. Of course if you get to set the paramaters of the debate you can declare yourself the winner. Your subjective whims do not define reality. To pretend they are cogent arguments is arrogant nonsense.
Consider that the micromers OK you got me, this word is not in any of the 7 dictionaries I checked. of "God" must fulfill all possible patterns- including death. Error B with a superflous Big word that isn't in the dictionary.
Observation: immortality is impossible. For an energy Force that exists in dimensions beyond our Time/Space?   Error B yet again....
Observation: the Christian God is immortal. There is the Strawman argument again. God is considered to be Way beyond immortal, we litteraly can not comprehend. you misdefining Theology does not make it so. It simply prooves you can't argue against it cogently.
Conclusion: the Christian God is impossible. Lets see, basic errors in critical thinking in every line, except for the completely superflous one at the top. This would have been an F in my HS logic class.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 1:54:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Take the Christian notion of God as being one that has lived forever before making the world and forever since. This is an inccorect view of Christian Theology. So your Grand Proof is a Strawman Argument. Sutley you have studyied basic critical thinking and formal logic, and know that you can't misdefine the position of your opponent, and then argue against that, and pretend it is a cogent argument. Wide Christian Theology holds that God is a Force that exists beyond our reality, beyond beyond time, not a creature/animal/physical being that has lived before the world and forever.

Someone didn't pay much attention in Sunday School!

quote:

ORGINAL: Attributes of God
Eternal: In some ways, this fact about God is similar to His self-existence. God always has been and will forever be, because God dwells in eternity. Time is His creation. It is why God can see the end from the beginning, and why He is never surprised by anything. If He were not eternal, God’s promise of eternal life for those who follow Jesus would have little value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Consider that, as time goes on forever, all possibilities will be fulfilled. Lets call this Error B, you make it quite a bit, and as a shortcut in the future I will simply refer to it. It's a common error among Higher Math thinkers, your used to working with hard data. Fixed values that you can do math on. You based on your limited observations draw conclusions, and declare them to be absolute? Observation is by definition subjective and incomplete. Error B is placing your subjective opinion as fact and premise. Of course if you get to set the paramaters of the debate you can declare yourself the winner. Your subjective whims do not define reality. To pretend they are cogent arguments is arrogant nonsense.

Ah, yes, reason is all flawed and experience in Math leads one to misunderstand things. And this, coupled with your lack of reasoning against it, outside of attempting to call me incompotent, obviously makes your point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Consider that the micromers OK you got me, this word is not in any of the 7 dictionaries I checked.

You'll have to excuse me.. I try to speak common, but words slip sometimes. I doubt you'll find it in many dictionaries.. it's a bit of a specialized term. A "micromer" is a repeated subcomponent, typically in context of repeating chains hydrocarbens in organic molecules.

If you have this problem in the future, I would suggest using Google.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

of "God" must fulfill all possible patterns- including death. Error B with a superflous Big word that isn't in the dictionary.

Sorry to confuse you with my "big", eight-letter word. Of course, your inability to use Google certainly invalidates my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Observation: immortality is impossible. For an energy Force that exists in dimensions beyond our Time/Space? Error B yet again....

What the living hell is "an energy Force that exists in dimensions beyond our Time/Space"? Sounds like intellectual surrender to me. :P
Not that to imply you seem to have much to surrender..

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Observation: the Christian God is immortal. There is the Strawman argument again. God is considered to be Way beyond immortal, we litteraly can not comprehend. you misdefining Theology does not make it so. It simply prooves you can't argue against it cogently.

Yeah.. you can be beyond immortal.. since "mortal" means you die, "immortal" means you don't die.. ..then there's a third possibility, "beyond immortal", which means you don't die- PLUS you get extra birthday cake every year! Yay!

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Conclusion: the Christian God is impossible. Lets see, basic errors in critical thinking in every line, except for the completely superflous one at the top. This would have been an F in my HS logic class.

Stop right there. Now I don't believe you. ..you went to highschool?

Replying to this was mind-numbing. Thanks, I needed it.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/25/2007 1:58:00 AM >

(in reply to luckydog1)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 2:06:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As for things moving beyond the doppler effect, velocity would have to be greater than c,

Shit does that mean i will get a speeding ticket while playing with LW's?

No, Real. Using LW is going to get you charged as a felon. But, you'll get some positive street cred so the inmates will respect you. And I'm not just talking any sort of respect- I'm talking *Insert R-E-S-P-E-C-T song here* you.

ull b da big dawg n da jail house, yo.

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 2:20:19 AM

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Beautifully honest.

I hope you enjoy this life. Only so much sand.. though I doubt you're one to dwell on the rate at which they pass.

(in reply to MissPlease)

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