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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 2:42:28 AM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I have a question.

How has being a genius led to you contributing more/less to the human collective knowledge/achievement/invention than your "lesser" counterparts? I'm not asking about learning what others have learned already, that isn't a addition or an achievement. That is nearly equivalent to rote knowledge. I'm not asking about such things as being able to view complex relationships in your head, that have sum effect of nil outside your brain. I'm asking of what makes your intelligence more valuable than a tile installer, in a practical sense, or in a manner that anyone would care about it.


It isn't, so far.

Mostly, knowledge has brought me misery and angst, then strength when learning to adapt to them.  But contributions?  While I hope to make them later on, to get my act together, nothing I've done really sticks around.  My sole achomplishments have been in the academic world.  I haven't entered the workforce with such ideas yet, outside of tutoring, where they have made me an exceptional teacher.

Another factor about genius is, what did it take to get it?  One such as myself has spent a great deal of time, tossing up hard questions, analyzing them, answering them as best I can, then incorporating it into myself.  I'm obsessed with truth, and I'm not sure if this will turn into an obsession for productivity or not later on.  I want to see how far I can go on, and I'd lose headway in this quest if I stopped to use the information for anything practical.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I simply ask this because, though we hold genius up in high regard, it doesn't seem to be "genius" that leads to achievement, or even having a tangible effect on the world. The only constant I've witnessed in turning any level of intelligence into something of worth, is applied constant effort and control.


Yeah, I'll agree.

Edison's fameous for the "99% [work] and 1% genius" quote.  I doubt he was as intelligent as other great names- just a hard worker. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

If that is agreed, then why is genius so revered to begin with?


Probably because they have the mental muscles?  Able to move the great boulders in the way of progress when no one else is, throwing people ahead by leaps and bounds.

A powerful will has made many great.  I believe the same is true for a genius.  A genius with a powerful will is probably an amazingly potent creature- both, both rare traits, how often do they occur together?  What good is a muscle for a man too lazy to go seek obstacles and overcome them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

It would seem to me to be useful, but useless without mental control, and if the topic of the thread holds true in that most people of genius level intelligence fall prey to insanity. Then how is it more productive, as a average compared to your non-genius counterparts, that may not understand the relationship between relativity and quantum theory, but made a nifty new tool that will shave hours off that tile installation? Who is more valuable at the end of the day?

I mean I have nothing against people that are genius, I just don't see any evidence it has been pivotal to anything. The pivotal portion in my view is applied constant controlled intelligence with a singular goal.

The implication is obvious.


Have you ever seen that movie, "A Beautiful Mind"?   The (ironically) crazy genius guy who was obsessed with doing something, just to matter?

I think many people who are bright seem to see this as one of the core aspects of their self-worth.. this goes on to become that they're only worth as much as they put out.

A lot of them, like the fellow on the movie, never do anything.  They live trying and die a failure.

Some of them, though, contribute.  They do something.  They'll have a robot put that tile down in thirty years so that would-be tile layers could do other things.

When it gets down to it, though, society needs a bit of everyone.  Heavier on the people who actually produce things, lighter on the thinkers who are more of investments than production.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/25/2007 2:43:10 AM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 2:46:00 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

As for things moving beyond the doppler effect, velocity would have to be greater than c,


Shit does that mean i will get a speeding ticket while playing with LW's?



No, Real.  Using LW is going to get you charged as a felon.  But, you'll get some positive street cred so the inmates will respect you.  And I'm not just talking any sort of respect- I'm talking *Insert R-E-S-P-E-C-T song here* you.

ull b da big dawg n da jail house, yo.


well on the bright side since you believe in c, you will never catch me :)


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 4:53:06 AM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I've rarely found girls to like me for intelligence.  I typically downplay it- heavily.  Most people hate people being more than just a little smarter than them.  To them, you're just a reminder of their flaws.  They hate being around you or considering you in earnest.


Are you sure people hate the intiellgence?

Or maybe people hate people who make statements like these on other threads...

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Have you ever met one of those people in special classs at school in your youth?  Not really able to get things, they're typically proud of their ability to add single-digit numbers, still spelling four-letter words in middle-school, getting down how to use quotes in highschool?
The difference between their IQ and a normal person's IQ is a little less than half the difference between mine and a normal person's, or about the same as mine and a gifted person's.

It's just important to understand because, have you ever tried explaining something to a person like that?  How things work, how to do average-level thinking for that age group?  It's.. just about impossible, really.. so frustrating!
This is less than the barrer I experience trying to explain things to people.
.


I have a friend who happens to be pretty close to your IQ range.

Amazingly, he is a very popular guy and has yet to suffer any angst or misery from his intiellgence or spend all his time cooped up reading books with a huge chip on his shoulder because all the world hates him for how smart he is.

Coincendatlly, he doesnt try to constantly prove how incredibly smart he is (Kind of like someone whos turned a thread about why genius's are insane into a contest to prove how he, in fact, is a genius) or refer to all people as inferior idiots because they dont understand things the way he does.

Personally, I happen to be in the 120-140 range and have yet to receive a single hate mail on this forum. I've also never had to downplay my IQ to someone who isnt in the above average range..

It amazes me how all these brilliant people constantly blame the world when its really their own defiecent people skills that cause them the misery and angst.

You might want to consider removing the huge chip on your shoulder and using your mental power to figure out how to communicate in a way that doesnt automatically put people on the defensive or feal flawed in light of your amazing superiority.

You might not end up like one particular genius named Ted.




< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/25/2007 4:54:34 AM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 10:09:42 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		So curious lord you think that Sunday School for children gives more than a basic grasp of theology.  And you seem to think God is a creature with DNA, the components of which were created in the Big Bang, which Gods existance predates.    God is not an animal, it is a force.  At least according to General Christian Theology.  If you payed attention at Woodberry Forrest you would know that, at least I picked it up at St Christophers

I did not say you were incompetent.  And I did not attack your reasoning.  IF you assumptions and definitons were correct, your argument would have been.  But they are not.  You have absolutly no information on the Nature of things beyond our universe, just conjecture, no one does.  You have made absolutly zero observations beyond time or our universe.  you are simply giving your uneducated opinion, and trying to use fancy irrelevant words to look smart.  Maybe that works on some of the dumber types.

Like I said you Math types are used to having hard data.  In this argument you used supositions and your personal opinion, not Hard data.  Garbage in Garbage out.  Your overall reasoning is not flawed, but the information you use is.  Any child can frame an argument if they get to controll all the paramaters and definttiions.  And hurl insults when called on it.

God does not have micromers.  Micromers are made of matter.  God created and pre exists matter, hence god is not made of matter, and does not have micromers.  God does not live forever, God trancends Time, and Space ( by definition)

You did not proove anything, except that you hurl insults when shown to be wrong.

Immortal.  We have found no example of immortal animals or plants/creatures.  Literature and ideas are full of things that live forever, elves from Lord of the rings are "immortal"  they do not die( of old age or disease), but can be killed if you cut them into pieces.  The Christian God is beyond that.  The theology page you pointed to says God is eternal, not that he is immortal, what a pathetic example of trying to switch terms.  Perfect example of you using the strawman again.  Change what Christians acutally say and then argue against it.  Either you are not very smart at all, or you are aware that you can't argue against actuall theology, just your strawmen based on childs Sunday School, and choose that tactic.  Which is it?

My HS regularly beat yours in football and was in the same prep league.  And your work there would have gotten an F in Logic.

Conclusion, people do not understand Lords "logic" not because they are not smart enough, but because they are error ridden arguments based on his opinons, hence are not valid arguments to begin with.  As long as Lord gets to set all the paramaters of a debate he will win everytime, well duh.  And if people do not accept his paramaters and definitoins, about things he is clealry intentionally misstating or has zero evidence for, he hurls insults and has a breakdown.  Clearly an Intellectual Master Debater.

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 5/25/2007 10:16:09 AM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 10:14:43 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

You have absolutly no information on the Nature of things beyond our universe, just conjecture, no one does. 


...does this mean that, in opposing Lords' conjecture you are merely placing one conjecture above another?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 10:22:28 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		No philosphy, not at all.  I am not claiming to be able to proove the existance of God.  I am not making a statement as to what the "nature of things beyond our universe" is.  I and we all have absolutly no evidence to make any definitive claim.  IF we have sent any probes, taken measurments, or recieved any information from out side of our universe, please point me to the information.  I guess some religous people would say we get messages from beyond, but that evidence is highly subjective and that there is a God of some sort.  Theology does not pretend to be able to proove God, it is based on faith.  I was pointing out that his argument was built by subsituting opinon (and faith that his opinion is fact) for fact, hence an invalid argument and proof of nothing.  He claimed to be able to do it, I examined his argument, and found it seriously lacking.  Personally I think the Christian Theology is full of flaws, and would never try to argue it is defnitive and infallible.

< Message edited by luckydog1 -- 5/25/2007 10:42:21 AM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 11:31:47 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		I assure you, people like who they can connect with- many girls included.  Of course, there are a lot of exceptions.  The only thing I pointed out is that I try not to flaunt intelligence- which you then go on to tell me is what I should be doing..

I'm a bit angsty now because I have personal issues to deal with.  Don't tell me you 're never down for a couple days.  But the only hate mail I've gotten from this board so far is from you..

This, coupled with the fact you've searched other threads for quotes from me just to make this reply.. well, are you sure you know who has a chip on his shoulder..?

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 11:45:13 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Heh, sorry if I was a bit rough on you in the last reply.  Just.. your arguments..
You made two..
'Strawman Arguemnt' and 'Problem B', I believe.

'Strawman Argument' contested that I mistated Christian beliefs.  So, I Google'd Christianity, went with one of the first links I saw, and looked up their God attributes page.  It agreed with me compeltely, so I cited it.  If you would like to comment on how such a source is not a valid prospective on Christianity, you may do so and challenge the source.  Until then, the 'Strawman Argument' is invalid.

'Problem B' centers around you telling me that [lim (x -> inf) (y^x) <> 0 for x = time, y = chance of event not occuring] for no reason other than it's Math, and therefore wrong.


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I am not making a statement as to what the "nature of things beyond our universe" is.


Everything that interacts with our universe is part of it.  Unless you care to explain an exception..?


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Personally I think the Christian Theology is full of flaws, and would never try to argue it is defnitive and infallible.


The main flaw being it itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr Paris. August 10, 1787

Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 3:24:22 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		Holy shit beavus there is some fucked up theology being thrown around here.

If you want Theology as put forth by Rome, God is in fact  immortal according to Roman theology.  (for those who do not know that is "the roman catholic church".  That is why Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, (a man of "flesh" died and not God personally).  God cant die!  Since God cannot die, (among other reasons), God is eternal.

There is one thing however that i have always found quite humorous about God.   There are a helluva lot of people who put a helluva lotta words in Gods mouth.  LOL




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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 5:54:56 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Time's an attributed aspect, not something that actually exists.  We use it as a device to understand why real things change.


How can we use it if it doesn't exist?



We use it all that time.  It prevents everything from happening at once.

Sinergy

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 6:55:35 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		actually curious lord, no where on your page did I see it stated that God is an orginism with DNA.  You want to pretend that it does...well thats not logic.

You want to pretend that God has DNA, when the components of DNA were created after our universe and time/Space, which according to theology came into existance because of God, again that is not logic.

Throwing irrelevant Math to misstate what error B is nothing to me.  You used the strawman argument again.  Argument B is you ( an insane person) supposing that your unfounded personal opions are fact.  And then basing an argument on them as if they were facts.  Again not logic.  You make an unfounded assumption that time is limitless, with no evidence to back it up.  If time has a begining and end, which many scientists as well as theologians agree with, your equation is meaningless.  The inf is not a proven fact, but you want to treat it as one.  Not logic, your personal opinion.

Hmm, well we have no data on anything beyond our universe, so an analogy will have to suffice.  If you write a computer program, is it part of you?  I would not think so.  However according to Christian theology the universe exists due to God' will.

Please show me where according to Christian Theology God is an orginism with physical attributes and biology, or admit you are making a strawman argument.  Either you can back up your assertions or you can't.  Your proof is based on your personal opinions (and a mis definiton of theology), not facts, and hence is not a valid proof of anything.  It would be a great example for a test in a logic class of "find the errors".  Not the work of a super genious at all.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 6:58:39 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

actually curious lord, no where on your page did I see it stated that God is an orginism with DNA.  You want to pretend that it does...well thats not logic.

You want to pretend that God has DNA, when the components of DNA were created after our universe and time/Space, which according to theology came into existance because of God, again that is not logic.


When'd I say God had DNA?  Things can live without having DNA, you know.


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Throwing irrelevant Math to misstate what error B is nothing to me.  You used the strawman argument again.  Argument B is you ( an insane person) supposing that your unfounded personal opions are fact.  And then basing an argument on them as if they were facts.  Again not logic.  You make an unfounded assumption that time is limitless, with no evidence to back it up.  If time has a begining and end, which many scientists as well as theologians agree with, your equation is meaningless.  The inf is not a proven fact, but you want to treat it as one.  Not logic, your personal opinion.

Hmm, well we have no data on anything beyond our universe, so an analogy will have to suffice.  If you write a computer program, is it part of you?  I would not think so.  However according to Christian theology the universe exists due to God' will.

Please show me where according to Christian Theology God is an orginism with physical attributes and biology, or admit you are making a strawman argument.  Either you can back up your assertions or you can't.  Your proof is based on your personal opinions (and a mis definiton of theology), not facts, and hence is not a valid proof of anything.  It would be a great example for a test in a logic class of "find the errors".  Not the work of a super genious at all.


Well, since this all is based on your idea I said God has DNA.. it's pretty much invalid 'n such.


If you are religious, it may be best you not consider this topic too far if you have an interest in maintaining your beliefs.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 6:58:44 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		I agree with Jefferson, question rigoursly.  But that means using facts and logic, not personal opinions and fallacies.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:00:32 PM   
girl4you2


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whoopsies; system burp & double post: please see my next post for the real post. thank you.

< Message edited by girl4you2 -- 5/25/2007 7:11:40 PM >

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:01:38 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I agree with Jefferson, question rigoursly.  But that means using facts and logic, not personal opinions and fallacies.



'course.  I'm glad we agree to stick to the logic.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:01:50 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Time's an attributed aspect, not something that actually exists.  We use it as a device to understand why real things change.


How can we use it if it doesn't exist?



We use it all that time.  It prevents everything from happening at once.

Sinergy


Time is nothing more than a freakin ruler LOL

It is intervals with an arbitrary value in cronological arrangement.

It is a more abstract tool that we use to measure with, that is why i call it nothing more than a ruler.

That is why travelling back in time is such an amusing fantasy.


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:02:19 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Ok I used DNA as a short hand for organic molercules.  That would be incorrect, but you can make the substitutions, and my argument still holds.  God is not a corpreal creature, according to theology he predates existance, time, and the existance of organic molercules.

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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:02:33 PM   
girl4you2


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Status: offline 		Ed.
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Please show me where according to Christian Theology God is an orginism with physical attributes and biology


isn't there a line somewhere that god created man in his own image? hmmm.


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RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:03:08 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2


isn't there a line somewhere that god created man in his own image? hmmm.


oh you can have lots of fun with that one!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? - 5/25/2007 7:04:46 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Curious Lord, please show me where in theology God is attriubted to having micromers, or admit you are mis-stating theology

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