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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 8:43:08 AM

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Im seeing something here over and over that is really confusing the issue. So as a frame of reference:

Submissive - the tendency or desire to submit
Submission - the actual act of giving power

Nobody is suggesting that a person's submissive nature is a gift. My desire to submit isn't a gift any more than the colour of my hair is a gift. However if / when I choose to submit to someone it will be a gift, because that person will be rather special / unique. Love and trust are both gifts. They are given very specifically to people who are special to you. When you give these things you're opening up your social mask and hoping that they will reciprocate, without expectation. (If you expect it then you're probably a bit on the control freak side). Submission is the same on a much higher scale. You're putting your life and well-being in another person's hands. You hope that they will appreciate it and not hurt you.

I really don't see a conflict with the idea of a gift being given without strings. I don't go into a relationship saying that I have this to offer of myself, on condition that you offer in return. I go in offering that which I am and hope that it will be reciprocated. If it isn't then my gift is not wanted. If the relationship ends then the gift is returned to be given to another, since only one person can have it. It's like a wedding ring...you give it to your partner. If they give it back to you it doesn't make it any less of a gift. People "exchange gifts" all the time. The fact that both people received something doesn't mean gifts were not given, because you can't control what people will offer in return.

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 8:48:02 AM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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As with every topic here on the forums, the answers have run the gamut from one end to the other. There are those who consider their submission the ultimate gift and do indeed feel it's like doing a huge favor to a Dom/Master to give it. On the other hand, it has been mentioned that perhaps submission has zero value. It's not special, it's not valuable, it's just as natural as blinking and something that is given to anyone in the vicinity. As usual, I see these as two extremes on the spectrum and I fall somewhere in between.

I have never used the word "gift" precisely because of the negative connotation that seems to receive. I'm not doing Master a favor by submitting to Him. I love, adore, respect, and honor Him and it is the most natural thing in the world to wholly submit to Him. I don't see it as doing Him some favor.

However, I do see it as a beautiful thing. He loves and cherishes His property as well. He accepts my submission AS IF IT WERE a gift, though that term has never been applied. He appreciates it AS IF IT WERE a gift because He knows that it IS freely given...and given ONLY to Him, not anyone who happens by.

I think that's where the value in it lies for us. He knows that I'm not naturally submissive in the sense that I can't control it and find myself submitting even when I choose not to. He knows that, out of all the opportunities I've had to submit to someone in a D/s relationship (and vanilla ones, for that matter), I did not until we came into each others' paths. He knows that I chose Him as much as He chose me. He knows how genuine my submission to Him is and He values it more highly than gold (His own words). To me, being His property is just the most natural, right thing I've ever done. If He chooses to see it as being special and valuable, it's certainly not my place to differ. If, to Him, it's a gift then so be it. What it IS is real and the best thing that has ever happened to either of us.

It was said that seeing one's submission as a gift implies that one's Dom/Master should "thank his lucky stars." Can I help it if He does? It's certainly not that I feel He SHOULD, it's simply that that's how He feels. He lets me know each and every day how precious and cherished I am. That doesn't make me one iota less"submissive" than someone who never hears it.........slave luci

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 8:48:53 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
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my submission is a gift that nobody wants to open

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:01:05 AM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet
i wonder, do these submissives view Dominance as a gift as well?
I view what my Master bestows upon me by being in and in charge of my life as the ultimate gift. I have never been the recipient of anything more valuable and precious......slave luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:02:52 AM

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Joined: 10/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

As with every topic here on the forums, the answers have run the gamut from one end to the other. There are those who consider their submission the ultimate gift and do indeed feel it's like doing a huge favor to a Dom/Master to give it. On the other hand, it has been mentioned that perhaps submission has zero value. It's not special, it's not valuable, it's just as natural as blinking and something that is given to anyone in the vicinity.

hi slaveluci, prop here...*waving*. please please don't assume that simply because submission is natural and instinctive that it is not special and has no value. tho i realize many feel that way, especially certain Dominants here who come to mind, it's all subjective, and depends on what one personally finds desireable. my Master finds my submission to be of great value, "priceless and precious" are the words he uses to describe it, because he finds my sort of submission to be a rare quality in this world, and to own such a submissive has always been a great desire of his. however he would still never refer to it as a gift, because it is part of my nature, something that comes along with the package. He does feel that finding me was a gift, and even my agreeing to give myself to him as his slave for life was a gift. but submission? that is not a gift, it just is.

-prop

(in reply to slaveluci)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:10:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

my submission is a gift that nobody wants to open

I dunno... got a purple bow on it?

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:11:02 AM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
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lavender, actually

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:26:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

As with every topic here on the forums, the answers have run the gamut from one end to the other. There are those who consider their submission the ultimate gift and do indeed feel it's like doing a huge favor to a Dom/Master to give it. On the other hand, it has been mentioned that perhaps submission has zero value. It's not special, it's not valuable, it's just as natural as blinking and something that is given to anyone in the vicinity.

hi slaveluci, prop here...*waving*. please please don't assume that simply because submission is natural and instinctive that it is not special and has no value. tho i realize many feel that way, especially certain Dominants here who come to mind, it's all subjective, and depends on what one personally finds desireable. my Master finds my submission to be of great value, "priceless and precious" are the words he uses to describe it, because he finds my sort of submission to be a rare quality in this world, and to own such a submissive has always been a great desire of his. however he would still never refer to it as a gift, because it is part of my nature, something that comes along with the package. He does feel that finding me was a gift, and even my agreeing to give myself to him as his slave for life was a gift. but submission? that is not a gift, it just is.

-prop

this slave would second prop's advice to you, as well as others who assume that there are those who do not value folks for whom submission is something as natural as breathing or blinking.

it has been this slave's experience that the ones who don't appreciate it or say it has zero value are rarely, if ever, the ones who actually experience it or seek a partner of that nature.

to each their own.

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:33:34 AM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet
hi slaveluci, prop here...*waving*. please please don't assume that simply because submission is natural and instinctive that it is not special and has no value
Hello prop,
I don't assume that. When I read where you said you think some calling it a "gift" makes them feel like it's "special" or "valuable," that naturally led me to believe that your point was that it isn't (special or valuable).
it's all subjective, and depends on what one personally finds desireable. my Master finds my submission to be of great value, "priceless and precious" are the words he uses to describe it because he finds my sort of submission to be a rare quality in this world, and to own such a submissive has always been a great desire of his
Same here
however he would still never refer to it as a gift, because it is part of my nature, something that comes along with the package
I see your point. I think where we differ is that while it's my nature with Him, it's not with anyone else. My submission is a huge part of the package - the very basis of it - but it is exclusively FOR Him.
He does feel that finding me was a gift, and even my agreeing to give myself to him as his slave for life was a gift
Again, same here. I wonder about any Dom/Master who wouldn't see it as such. Not saying they are any less sincere, "real," or whatever....it's just when they find someone willing to become theirs for life and who genuinely submits and serves, I wonder how they can help but feel like this. Guess that's why I'm not a dom...lol
but submission? that is not a gift, it just is
point taken and (pretty much) agreed with..........luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:43:32 AM

tenderfootmaster

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From: Ft. Leavenworth, KS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I tend to see the term associated with people who seem to think by calling themselves Dominant everyone should call them Sir/Miss which is total crap in my opinion, obviously there are differant vews on this, obviously Gor springs to mind. However though i never refer to my submission as a gift i do think it is something that i dont just instantly hand over to just anyone, there is without a doubt an almost transaction involved when you become willing to submit totally.

Personally, I don’t like being called Sir or Master or anything likewise especially if you aren’t even my submissive or slave. I treat it the way I do in the Army, NCOs aren’t going to bust your balls, making you say sergeant after every single thing you say, but as soon as you fuck up you better be spitting them out!

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"Never do anything today that you can put off till tomorrow... Most things that you do not have to do today are not worth doing at all." -E. W. Scripps

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(in reply to colouredin)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:43:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave would second prop's advice to you, as well as others who assume that there are those who do not value folks for whom submission is something as natural as breathing or blinking
Just to clarify, I did not mean to indicate that I think that. I was referring to the statement prop made about how people who feel it's a "gift" apparently feel that way so they can feel their submission is "special" or "valuable." As I stated in my reply to her above, that statement indicated to me that she DIDN'T feel it was "special" or "valuable." If I misread, that should clarify.

I certainly have NEVER devalued ANYONE'S submission. It's not up to me to decide who is really submissive and who is not. And again, I would state: for me, submission IS as natural as breathing or blinking. I never said it wasn't. It's just that it's not natural with everyone I meet. It's directed at the One who owns me only.
it has been this slave's experience that the ones who don't appreciate it or say it has zero value are rarely, if ever, the ones who actually experience it or seek a partner of that nature.
I could not agree more. My Master values my submission more than anything else in His life and I value His dominance to the same degree. Those who don't realize the value of such surely have never experienced what we have.
to each their own.
Absolutely.........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 9:50:40 AM

tenderfootmaster

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From: Ft. Leavenworth, KS
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Dear windchymes
I just had to say that I love your signature. Reminds me of my girlfriends mom always wanting to gossip about people she dislikes!

-Great minds discuss concepts. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss other people.-

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"Never do anything today that you can put off till tomorrow... Most things that you do not have to do today are not worth doing at all." -E. W. Scripps

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 10:04:47 AM

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Well this thread devolved into another fine mess...

lets talk about the Gift of Intromission. In detail. One on one.

<snark>

E.

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"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 10:09:24 AM

tenderfootmaster

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From: Ft. Leavenworth, KS
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I feel that submission is relatively a gift to a Dom. The reason I say that is because even though we may have sought them out and let them become part the family, they had to willingly except to become our slave. But in return, Dominance is also a gift, we chose to let you into our lives, families, and homes. It is a two way street any way you look at it, just like respect, trust, and love.

_____________________________

"Never do anything today that you can put off till tomorrow... Most things that you do not have to do today are not worth doing at all." -E. W. Scripps

www.myspace.com/bdsmguy85

(in reply to CdnExplorer)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 10:39:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

If a submissive or slave is truly dedicated to his or her owner/mistress/master, their only concern is to give of themselves without expecting anything in returen.

So the only path to being truly dedicated is to not expect anything in return? i don't agree. That sounds good in theory but stinks in practice.

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 11:07:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

If a submissive or slave is truly dedicated to his or her owner/mistress/master, their only concern is to give of themselves without expecting anything in returen.

So the only path to being truly dedicated is to not expect anything in return? i don't agree. That sounds good in theory but stinks in practice.
For me it certainly does. And it's odd that in all the talking, instruction, etc. that Master has done, He has never once indicated to me in anyway that I should never expect "anything in return." It is His privilege, perogative, and pleasure to offer me much in return. So, as His property, I think I'll go with what HE desires and not with someone else's definition that is supposed to encompass the "appropriate" thing for ALL sub/slaves to do and feel. This is the second time this afternoon that I've read a statement purporting to tell somebody how to think or act "submissive." It is up to my Master and Him only how I should act and what is appropriately "submissive"...slave luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 11:10:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

ORIGINAL: octavia

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

quote:

ORIGINAL: octavia

I did have a guy thank me for sex once.. pissed me right off. That not a gift.

LMAO!!!!!!!!! i like you octavia!

Thankies! I like you toooooooooo.

I had a sign on my bedroom door that said "Thankyou come again!"

Now THAT is sweeet! But if they left a "tip" that would be better

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 11:12:40 AM

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uhmmmmmmmm

would an oral tip be appropriate?

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(in reply to dawntreader)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 11:22:14 AM

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I have agonized over both ends of the spectrum, yes and no.
I know my most used screen name on here could be found and the answer was NO, it is not a gift.

Semantics aside.... When Sir tells me, "you make me want to be the best Dom I can be" it doesnt seem like a gift to me.
When He asked "do you want to be Mine" after he told me "I want you";
it didnt seem much like a gift when I looked into his eyes and said "I do."

D/s is what you make of it.....

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/8/2007 12:16:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

If a submissive or slave is truly dedicated to his or her owner/mistress/master, their only concern is to give of themselves without expecting anything in returen.

So the only path to being truly dedicated is to not expect anything in return? i don't agree. That sounds good in theory but stinks in practice.
For me it certainly does. And it's odd that in all the talking, instruction, etc. that Master has done, He has never once indicated to me in anyway that I should never expect "anything in return." It is His privilege, perogative, and pleasure to offer me much in return. So, as His property, I think I'll go with what HE desires and not with someone else's definition that is supposed to encompass the "appropriate" thing for ALL sub/slaves to do and feel. This is the second time this afternoon that I've read a statement purporting to tell somebody how to think or act "submissive." It is up to my Master and Him only how I should act and what is appropriately "submissive"...slave luci

Your master sounds like he understands the value of what he has with you and both of you are lucky to have an M/s relationship that works so well for the both of you.

i would have had no problem with what the poster said if she posted it this way: i am a sub/slave and for me to truly show dedication to my owner/mistress/master,i must make him/her my only concern and to give of myself without expecting anything in return.

To say it the way she did is saying anyone esle who does it differently isn't really dedicated.

< Message edited by velvetears -- 6/8/2007 12:17:50 PM >

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Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to slaveluci)

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