slaveluci
Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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ORIGINAL: kittinSol
luci, sorry but I find your statement profoundly disturbing. What is it about 'women needing to hold their tongues'? Where does this outdated cliche come from? Do women speak too much? Some certainly do. That woman blindfolded herself in efforts to stop dictating to her husband how to drive. That didn't help. She still did it. Perhaps if she'd moved the blindfold a bit lower until it became a gag? But I still don't think that would have helped matters. She saw in herself, apparently, the need to control things while he was driving. She tried to control it via the blindfold and was unsuccessful. As I said before, if you are so caught up in controlling something that even measures like that don't work, there's bigger issues there. My whole point here is that simply because you find something profoundly disturbing doesn't mean I (and these women) can't live that way.
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So, marriage is the same thing as a D/s relationship? I think MANY would disagree with you. Of course, one can have a D/s marriage, but something tells me those people aren't at all into what we are into. Also: nothing tells you she had thought of 'surrendering' before marrying that man. Something tells me it wasn't part of the equation. No, it's not the same. I never said it was. I also said it doesn't matter what it's labeled as. It is what it is. Why the need for a title? We don't know what these women thought before getting married but what we do know is they read the book and they are attempting to put it's principles into action and they aren't getting divorced. Those are choices. Maybe not popular ones with the public, but their choices nonetheless.
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You are right, I was not exposed to the same cultural quirks as you, although I now live amongst them.
Quirks, shmirks.....I don't think it's a cultural or regional thing for mothers to refer to their children's father as "Daddy." Really doesn't matter, though. This woman did and I and many others see nothing creepy or sexual about it. Either way, I think it's obvious this woman did not mean it that way.
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Trust me, many people think about these things; I'm not alone :-)
Again, it really matters not others think. It's my relationship or these women's marriages. What others would have me or them do is really irrelevant.
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Talk about taking things personally! Relax, luci, I wasn't criticising your way of life at all, and when I said 'cute', I meant it, there was nothing underhand about it all! I thought it was cute that the wife shaved her hubby's beard for him. What's so wrong with the word 'cute'? Do you find it threatening? You are quite happy about making complete assumptions about me, but I wasn't 'looking down my nose'. Besides as you know nothing about me, about how I live or about what I 'do' in bed, it would be cool of you not to throw your prejudice in my general direction. And forgive me for pointing this out to you, but since you use the word 'cute' about those that like public play, straight after berating me for using the word in a completely different context, I take it that you are saying you are looking down your nose at them, aren't you?
First of all, my whole point is that no one has the right to "look down their nose" at anyone else. As I wrote previously, I understand criticism of the video from those who don't agree with how these women live. But people don't say: "I couldn't live this way. It really bothers me and I wouldn't stand for it in my life." That's great - more power to you. What people, including you, tend to say is along these lines: "This f'g freaks are sick. They are flat out wrong. This is abuse and it's sick and creepy." Now that's two waaaaayyyy different things to say. If you don't like it and don't want to live it, great. But do not state that anyone who chooses to is sick, wrong, creepy, abused, etc. You say to relax and not take it personally. That's hard to do when statements like that dismiss the way I live my very life. Let's say someone is a lesbian. Someone says in their presence that lesbianism is "sick, creepy, wrong, etc." When that lesbian takes offense and they are told "Relax. Don't take it personally. God, you're sensitive. I wasn't saying that toward you personally." No, but you have said it about what makes up the core of who they are. That's the way I feel about this. I don't find the word "cute" threatening but the way it was used seemed to be negative. If it wasn't, excuse my interpretation. As far as throwing prejudice in your direction, I did not. I never assumed anything about you or what you do in bed. It doesn't mean anything to me. And as far as what I said about public play. Take it in the context it was used. I was simply making up an example to use your words back at you as in "here's something I don't do. What if I made a judgment on everyone who does it?" We don't do public play but I have never slammed anyone who does. I have stated that we don't do it on a thread asking about things people don't do. But I have never come out and said "I don't do this so people who do are wrong." I certainly was not saying that here. It was a hypothetical example.
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I did refer to this albeit indirectly; why on earth do you assume from the very start that the wife is the junior partner? Has it occurred to you that some relationships are based on equality?
Yes, it certainly has. Has it occurred to you that some aren't? One is just as valid as the other. I didn't assume that all wives are junior partners. I said it was referred to in the video in one example. That is how it works in my relationship. Nowhere did I say it has to be that way for everyone. You made the blanket statements, not I.
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Have you thought that I may be a submissive who is on an equal keel with her partner? What of spouses that aren't into power-based relationships at all? What of those couples that have a submissive husband? Etcaetera, etcaetera, etcaetera: your view doesn't hold the universal truth.
Again, I NEVER said it did. I did not post anything that indicated that my way is the universal truth. You actually did. Take a look at the prior posts. You are the one who said these people are freaks and their actions are sick and creepy, etc. The only things I have said defend their choices to do what they want as well as my own. You are chastising me for prejudices, blanket judgments, and assumptions that my way is right for everyone and I NEVER said anything of the kind. Everything I said is exactly opposite: that you (nor I) have any right to dictate to others how they should live.
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God, luci, once again, don't think everything's about you! I was doing some literary criticims and the thought of you hadn't even crossed my mind when I started posting on this thread. I think you either have major anxiety, or insecurity, or some kind of issue about other people's opinions, don't you? I was not referring to you but to Lowrat Boyle.
God, Kittensol, once again, see my point. Go back to the lesbian example above. It's like you're saying "Anyone who would live like this is sick, creepy, wrong, and abused. All except you luci. Geez, don't take it so personally just because I've singlehandedly condemned every principle you and your Master live by." Can you possibly see how I could take it just a smidge "personally?" I have no major anxiety, insecurity, or any other issue. But when someone condemns and dismisses every principle I live by, you're right when you say it affects me. I find it amusing how anytime someone takes real issue with being pissed on, it's always their own fault. They must have some major "issues". The only issue I have is having my relationship "model" dismissed as abusive and wrong.
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I will say it again, my initial threads weren't about you at all, but you certainly have ensured that they became about you, and your virulence on this thread (you replied at length to many others) speaks millions about the issues you, personally, have with this subject.
I didn't want anything to be "about me." If I hadn't been indirectly insulted by your dismissal of these women and anyone who would choose to live as they do, I wouldn't have spoken up and it wouldn't have had anything to do with me. Yes, it upset me and and I replied at length. There's no rule against that. I hope it does speak volumes about me personally. Here's what I hope it says: Anytime someone with no knowledge of me or my relationship comes along and just point-blank trashes the principles/model by which I live, I'm going to be upset. I'm going to speak up - no matter how lengthy my replies become - to say to that person that they have zero right to dismiss someone else's lifestyle simply because they don't choose it for themselves. If you call speaking up for what you believe in and the right to live as you choose "having issues" then yes, I "have issues." I have issues with those who tell others that thei way is simply wrong and then can't see why that person would have a problem with that...........slave luci
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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin
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RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia - 
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. I even pointed that out earlier. I do remember you taking quite a beating (and not in a good way) for what you felt uncomfortable seeing children exposed to concerning BDSM. Yet here, abuse is seen where there is absolutely nothing to that degree going on. Just because these women don't call their marriages "BDSM" - so what? It is what it is and in my eyes and those of my Master, it is natural and beautiful and the way we live. Both of our parents' marriages were the same way and we turned out to be fairly intelligent, free thinking, open minded folks in spite of the fact that our mothers fully submitted to our fathers and raised us to respect, honor, and obey them
. Thanks for letting me know at least one other person around here can at least see my point.........luci
.... i have to wonder how the more imtimate aspects are handled. For instance they never mentioned what happens when these women don't obey or when they rebel - i mean they are human and they must do so at some point when they are feeling cranky or have pms lol..... do they suffer a consequence or punishment... i am such a voyeur LOL i wanna know dammit!
. Seems like everything everyone is so angry and sickened about is the basis of our relationship. We aren't married yet but will be before the summer is out. Maybe then it will become wrong since we're legally married? 
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